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Going to Hospital on a college campus

Discussion in 'Legal' started by tluxtele, May 18, 2013.

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  1. tluxtele

    tluxtele Member

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    I'm fairly new to all this. And since I am, I'm now looking at things from a different angle. So I have a question for y'all.

    The other night I was working in the backyard and my wife comes to the door and says "We have to go now!" I look and she's holding a washcloth over her wrist. She was cutting a box, slipped, and got her wrist (about a 2 inch long cut starting at her wrist and going up the arm). One of our children just got out of the shower and the other was still in the tub waiting to be washed. So we get everything together to make the 20-30 min drive to the nearest hospital. This whole time I'm in "calm-panic" mode.

    So we pull up to the emergency room entrance. They park our car for us (that was nice). We go in. They take down all of my wife's info. Then we have to walk through a metal detector before we get to the waiting room. This is where I started thinking.

    What if I had a concealed carry permit and was carrying. I would not have thought to take it off and leave it home while all that was going on. So I would have gotten there and had it in a gun free zone since the hospital is on campus.

    So, what happens in a situation like that? Common sense would tell me that they would hold the gun 'til you leave recognizing the situation. But I also know we don't live in a common sense world. Interested to hear how this works.
     
  2. Yo Mama

    Yo Mama Member

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    I've never seen a metal detector in a hospital, or college campus.

    If I'm ever placed in that situation, my Wife knows that I'll have to go back to the car to get my "insurance" card.
     
  3. Coop45

    Coop45 Member

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    There isn't policeman on duty at the emergency room?
     
  4. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    are you sure it was a metal detector? many hospitals have adopted anti theft devices to keep people from snatching babies. and they can look similar
     
  5. smalls

    smalls Member

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    You turn around and put your gun in your car. Pretty simple solution.

    Chances are, even if its legal to carry, they're not going to let you if they find out.
     
  6. robowo

    robowo Member

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    If you are serious about getting a concealed carry permit you need to think about situations like this ahead of time. Here in NC it would also have been illegal if you had left the gun in your vehicle on campus. If you went to the UNC Chapel Hill hospital, they are quite serious about a gun on campus, whether it was accidental or not.

    While I was waiting for my permit to be approved I began to look at situations that could put me on the wrong side of the law. I had to pick my son up at a local college campus a couple times a week. I either had to leave my revolver at home on those days or stop across the street, off campus property, to pick him up.

    I also made sure I knew all businesses that I frequent that have signs not allowing concealed carry. Almost all malls have a policy of not allowing it. Other than that, none of the places I shop at have that restriction. I won't shop anywhere that does prohibit concealed carry. Knowing ahead of time where you can and can't carry and planning accordingly is part of the responsibility you accept when you get your permit.
     
  7. tluxtele

    tluxtele Member

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    Thank you. She's doing fine. After 5 hours we left with her arm all sown up. She missed all her veins and had a clean cut.


    There were two. One checked us through.

    The guard/cop had us empty our pockets and walk through... just like the airport. When they brought wheel chairs through it beeped. It was for check in/security reasons. Can't imagine it was anything other than a metal detector.

    Two problems with this. First, it's illegal to have a gun on campus (including being locked in your car). If I were the cop I would be suspicious of someone who needed to go back to their car after seeing a metal detector. Even if I were to go that route, I didn't see it until I was getting ready to go through it. Partly because I didn't have to think of this issue (I can't carry yet) and because I too have never seen a metal detector in an emergency room.

    I was just wondering because I wouldn't figure they could hold you accountable if you got in an accident and were brought by an ambulance. Didn't know if similar situations would apply to having to go there in an emergency.
     
  8. tluxtele

    tluxtele Member

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    That's kinda what I'm doing now. I would have never thought about this before. I would have been annoyed with the metal detector, but I wouldn't have thought about possibly breaking the law on accident.

    I hear that could be changing. Didn't the House recently pass new gun laws?

    Isn't that still against the law? I thought I had heard something ridiculous that you couldn't be within 1000 feet of school property. I have no clue where I heard that.
     
  9. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Member

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    Most states have an "affirmative defense" clause stating something like, "if the actor knowingly violates..." Look at it this way, you need to rush into the emergency room. Set off the metal detector, what are they going to do? Arrest you for trying to save someone from bleeding to death? Tell you to put it back in your car and leave your panicked spouse? If they did, you could sue them for everything under the sun.
     
  10. smalls

    smalls Member

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    You're getting confused with the federal gun free schools law, which you are exempt from if you are licensed by the state that you are in.
     
  11. Twiki357

    Twiki357 Member

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    I can't say about my local hospital, haven't been near one for a few years, but there was nothing the last time I was there. But the idiots running my town stuck a metal detector at the entrance of the public library.
     
  12. PapaGrune

    PapaGrune Member

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    I think most Hospitals are gun free by default, but most I have seen have a sign posted on the door. I have no Idea about the BIG trauma Hospitals in Houston, but those have had PO in them for a long long time..

    Malls and other such places must post a 30.06 Notice on every door to be legal as far as no CC. Big malls that have a Bass Pro Shop do not have a 30.06 sign on the door going into the mall. That voids the malls no gun allowed policy from what I have been told. WalMarts allow Concealed Carry, No 30.06 signs on anyone that I have been to. Some Banks in Texas are Gun Friendly and welcome CCH. Some School Districts are also not "Gun Free Zones" Facility and staff are allowed to carry with a CCL.

    Sorry to get a little off tract. Texas is trying to pass a law where CCL people can carry on University, College Campuses. HB 972, which decriminalizes campus concealed carry, passed in committee and is now on its way to the Senate floor.

    Whoop.
     
  13. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Member

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    One can foresee many emergency situations in which certain expected practices might get overlooked.

    If I have a home accident and need to get the the ER very quickly, I might forget I'm carrying, and I might forget to pick up my wallet (CHP, driving license, various ID and financial instruments). It might not occur to me that I have a pocket knife on my keychain. Look at all the rules I've just broken in the interest of saving life and limb!

    It is not beyond imagination that a staff member, a LEO, etc. at a hospital would make an issue of these oversights, crisis notwithstanding. That's the sort of society in which we live--litigious, politically correct, web-savvy, so focused on technology, policy and regulation that we've lost the art of understanding and managing human relationships.
     
  14. BSA1

    BSA1 member

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    Here is another approach to consider;

    It is ok to call 911 and request a ambulance. EMS (and EMICT) are the best trained to handle trauma. They will quickly stop the bleeding and stablize the patient before transporting her to the E.R.

    While they are doing all of that it gives you a chance to calm down, round up the kids, maybe call a relative or friend to babysit the kids and to think about leaving your roscoe at home or in the car.

    I use to work in a major regional medical center and weapns coming in on patients was very common. Lots of knives and occasional handguns. Our procedure was for hospital security to take the patients gun for safe keeping. If a family member was legally armed they were asked to secure their gun in their vehicle. The only time the police were called is if we thought the gun has been used in a crime. (Actually most of the time it was to turn over the bullet we took out of the patient).

    BUT this was at a privately owned hospital. A publicaly owned hospital could well be a different story. You probably already had broke the law when you brought a firearm onto the college campus.

    With two young kids you are going to have more wrecks (trust me on this one). Do everyone a favor and call 911 for a ambulance.

    P.S. Dad. A little blood can look like a lot. I think it has to due with the bright red color.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  15. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Ive never seen police in the emergency area or metal detectors for that matter.

    In AZ, and I would guess most states, give you a free pass over the no gun signs if you are in an emergency aide situation.
     
  16. Miata Mike

    Miata Mike Member

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    Our local hospitals have signs where you enter the parking area stating that the hospital is gun free and that you must leave them in your vehicle. Very clear and no metal detectors at normal entrances.
     
  17. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    Same here - even the medical offices on the same grounds have signs in the parking lot
     
  18. Doug Add

    Doug Add Member

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    Not a handgun, but I have had to leave my pocket knife with security to pass through the metal detectors at the Duke University Medical Center ER to visit a patient. He provided me a sealable envelope on which I printed and signed my name. On the way out I showed my ID, signed for it, and was given the envelope containing my knife.

    It was not an emergent situation where having to stop and fill out paperwork would have been inconvenient.
     
  19. JPG19

    JPG19 Member

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    Police, metal detectors, etc. are common in emergency departments located in or near high-crime areas (worked with an ED nurse that had previously worked in a New Orleans hospital where the registration clerks sat behind bullet proof glass and had to buzz patients through for them to gain access to the waiting area!). I've thought about this exact situation and, for whatever reason, just am not comfortable with handing my loaded firearm over to a stranger - Security t-shirt or not. I know laws always vary by state but what do you guys think about handing over the pistol to security and retaining the magazine/bullets?
     
  20. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

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    I wouldn't - I would leave it in my car first
     
  21. brboyer

    brboyer Member

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    Which means exaclty nothing in Florida, legally speaking.
     
  22. RetiredUSNChief

    RetiredUSNChief Member

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    First of all, I hope your wife is OK.

    Second of all, you leave your gun in your car. That simple.

    For those who haven't experienced it (yet), yes some hospitals now have metal detectors. My wife and I had to take our youngest to the ER for a sprained/broken wrist a couple months ago and we had to go through a metal detector. I had a pocket knife on me, which I had to give up or take back to the car. I gave it to the security guy and he bagged it and gave me a ticket for it. I picked it up on the way out. (My wife, however, got totally torqued and took hers out to the car. Then proceded to get upset at me later for blindly complying with the hospital over my pocket knife. Oh, well.)

    But you won't be able to handle this the same way for a firearm under the circumstances you described.

    In SC, it is illegal to carry a firearm into a hospital. However, there are procedures which will be followed if, for example, you are injured (say, and automobile accident) and end up in the hospital due to your injuries while you are armed. Essentially, the firearm will be held by the police until you leave the hospital, then you can reclaim it.

    If you find yourself in the scenario you described, simply leave it in the car, or turn around and take it back to your car.

    If you somehow get caught up in it officially, say via metal detector, then you've got no choice but to handle it on whatever level of official response occurs. If they tell you to leave/take it to your vehicle, then that's what you do. If they hold you for the police, then you wait. At no time to you EVER lose your cool or otherwise come across as aggressive or argumentative. If things go south in terms of an arrest, then get an attorney and deal with it that way, using extremis circumstances as your attorney advises.
     
  23. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Hospitals are not your friends. Assume anything you have on you as a patient can and will be confiscated/stolen by the staff. It's a bigger problem as a patient obviously, but think twice before going inside if you have other options.
     
  24. docsleepy

    docsleepy Member

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    Ha!

    You can't take a firearm into any facility that has mental health treatment (can't remember if that is Florida or national, but I remember it applies to me). Further, you can't take onto a Florida campus. And my hospital has plenty of mental health treatment.

    So I injured MYSELF rather impressively over the weekend and had to hold part of myself to keep the bleeding down, very painful, wife drove me into my own hospital where I work (and NEVER carry there). I was one hurtin' critter and not thinking really well at that point....

    So here I am, laying on a stretcher and they're about to start stitching and I realize my carry pistol is in my right pocket. At least it IS concealed! I kept my mouth shut and turned onto my right side so they could stitch easier.

    Got home intact.
     
  25. S&W620

    S&W620 Member

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    Yeah, metal detectors and police officers are pretty common nowadays.

    At the hospital I work at we have both of those and the hospital goes on 'lock down' at 9pm. Elevators/hallways/etc are limited with badge access, so unless you are an employee, you aren't going to get very far.

    For those of you who think it's stupid or foolish, I've had ATF, FBI and police officers on our (locked) unit as well as a visitor threaten to kill a patient because of some past issues between the patient and the visitor's father. We've had many patients who are incarcerated at the time of admission. We've had a number of patients who were charged and prosecuted after being discharged.
     
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