Golden Sabre Bullet or Gold Dot Bullet in a SD/HD Load?

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Like said above, the GS of 12 years are are not bonded and had a bad reputation of jacket separation and failure. Gold dot bullets have always been bonded and will perform better than the GS will.

As long as the GD bullet rounds are totally reliable in your guns I would use those without a doubt and use the GS bullets for practice ammo.
 
ArchAngelCD - "Like said above, the GS of 12 years are are not bonded and had a bad reputation of jacket separation and failure."

Looking back on this thread I don't see any other posts by you. Are you referencing the other GS thread in the General Gun Discussion forum? Or is there a glitch on my end???
 
ArchAngelCD - "Like said above, the GS of 12 years are are not bonded and had a bad reputation of jacket separation and failure."

Looking back on this thread I don't see any other posts by you. Are you referencing the other GS thread in the General Gun Discussion forum? Or is there a glitch on my end???
I said, "Like said above" not "Like I said above."

On forums if you repeat what someone already said sometimes they get all bent out of shape if you don't acknowledge it was already posted. I find it a pain to do but it's better than having someone rant at you because they got their feeling hurt because they didn't get credit for saying it first.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
the GS of 12 years are are not bonded and had a bad reputation of jacket separation and failure. Gold dot bullets have always been bonded and will perform better than the GS will.

Given a choice, I would more than likely choose a bonded or monolithic bullet over a standard cup and core bullet for self defense or hunting for the simple reason that they virtually eliminate one potential failure mode i.e. jacket/core separation. However, after shooting numerous gel tests with a variety of Golden Saber bullets, there is nothing wrong with the design ASSUMING THEY'RE MADE CORRECTLY. The GS bullets perform extremely well in standard tests. They won't work as well in the full FBI series of tests where bonded bullets do much better through various barriers but for civilian use.
 
I would be perfectly comfortable using older GS rounds for self defense. There are so many more important variables, and they are likely to perform very well anyway. IMHO, the bonded GS was a response to market wants more than any real problem with the original bullet. Dunno though. :)
 
Walkalong said:
IMHO, the bonded GS was a response to market wants more than any real problem with the original bullet. Dunno though.

It's my opinion that the desire for bonded bullets was driven by LE's acceptance of the standard FBI barrier test and the subsequent desire by civilians to have what LE has. Manufactures went to bonded bullets to improve FBI barrier scores in order to win LE contracts which would then result in higher civilian sales (where the real money is made).
 
ArchAngelCD - I got hung up on grammar and since there was no subject for the verb "said", I made the choice of "I". Unless it's important I'll lighten up on the typing-talk.

Jacket separation can be a serious problem. A perp disarmed another LEO and was attempting to shoot him when I shot the perp. The bullet struck a rib and separated from the jacket (to my knowledge Winchester didn't have bonded pistol bullets in the late 70s) then broke up into 4 major pieces including the jacket. It took some of the wind out of him, but not enough for him to completely stop resisting. He didn't die until much later.

That alone would usually would usually discount the GS for me, but I cannot believe the tissue damage they do to an armadillo. I don't expect the same results to happen in a human, but like I said, it was impessive! The GD were no slouch in armadillos either.

I need to sort out two main things about the GD bullets to make them the first choice. 1- Will they feed reliably in my .45s? 2- Am I going to have a problem with bullet set back as suggested by Steve C.?
 
It's my opinion that the desire for bonded bullets was driven by LE's acceptance of the standard FBI barrier test and the subsequent desire by civilians to have what LE has. Manufactures went to bonded bullets to improve FBI barrier scores in order to win LE contracts which would then result in higher civilian sales (where the real money is made).
Isn't that kind of the same thing? :D

I have no doubt you are 100% right, cause I know you would know. :)
 
I've run a few penetration and expansion tests over the years, and I prefer the Gold Dots for expansion. I've had some GS that actually displayed some jacket separation, but nothing of the like with GD's. And don't misunderstand me, GS are a good projectile, but I push my loads to the hilt, so that could certainly have some bearing on separation issues.

GS
 
Walkalong said:
Isn't that kind of the same thing?

Yes .... I was just emphasizing your point. :D


gamestalker said:
I've had some GS that actually displayed some jacket separation, but nothing of the like with GD's.

These Golden Saber bullets did just fine in bare gel (top) and heavy clothing (bottom) at 10 feet. Penetration was in the 14" range and expansion around 1.6X. They were shot from a 1.875" revolver barrel. I have no idea how they'd work on flesh and bone.

gs_udch_125_2.jpg
 
My only experience with the GS was in the form of the 180gr 40 cal I used in my 10mm. Like Walkalong, back when they first came out I picked up 1K of them pretty cheap. I really liked the profile with the reduced diameter nose just in front of the shank where the ogive starts. They were loaded to around 1300fps and at 50yds they shot so well I really couldn't believe it. They topped my GD load accuracy by a full inch.

That said, I use that pistol for hog hunting when we would run the dogs. It is more than accurate enough for a had shot at 25yds or closer, and light enough not to be bothersome while chasing the dogs through the briers and brambles.

I got on a big hog and the first shot came at about 30' or so. I put one of the GS's right under his ear, which should have ended things then and there. Instead however, he growled, lunged at the dogs, and was off to the races. Another hundred yards or so down the river bank, and they bayed him up again. Same thing only a few feet closer. Second round impacted within about an inch of the first, and again we were off to the races with a now VERY mad hog. The third bay was finished by a 30-30 at almost point blank range. We found that both of the GS had hit the skull and simply splattered resulting in a nasty wound under the hide, but nothing remotely fatal.

Up until this point I had used the GD almost exclusively with no issues what so ever. The same shot had been taken quite a few times with them resulting in a hog that was DRN. After that little trip through the woods, I relegated the GS's to more or less paper weights. They "might" work better in other situations on other targets, but they will have to do so in somebody elses handgun, not mine.
 
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