Good 1911

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I picked up a cheap Firestorm for $425.00

I picked up a cheap .45 delux Firestorm for $425.00 last month. I had some extra cash to burn so i figured i would pick up a beater. I have ran close to 1000 rounds through it and have not had one malfunction. I can cut the center of the target out at 15 to 20 yards with it. So it is accurate enough for me. I know you get what you pay for but i am really impressed with this cheap .45 I have heard it is on par with the quality of Rock Island .45s
 
I second it, 357mag357, my S&W 1911PD is about a fine a shooter as I've ever experienced---right out of the box. But I've got to admit, I hear a Colt calling me ... .
 
My last Colt was $600 flat (2007 1991 Commander) this spring. I call that value, and well worth the small premium over a Kimber or foreign-made Springfield models with welded barrels and lots of MIM. I call it "value."

That was a good bargain on a used gun. When you look at what you get (we're talking brand new from a store here) for $800 versus what Dan Wesson gives you for only $100 more, the DW is a way better value in my opinion. It's not even close. And if you care about MIM parts, the DW doesn't use any.

I think people buy Colts because they are Colts. Sure some people know what an MIM part is, but most people buying a gun don't. Colts aren't horribly overpriced but I don't think I would use Colt and Value in the same sentence unless it was a deal on a used one.
 
That was a good bargain on a used gun.

It sat unsold in the classifieds for over a month - I don't think it was an unusual deal. It was about 80% of the retail price; or a typical used gun deal. Certainly the THR and Ar15.com community didn't think so - they both let it sit for a month without acting on it..

When you look at what you get (we're talking brand new from a store here) for $800 versus what Dan Wesson gives you for only $100 more, the DW is a way better value in my opinion.

Nope, all you have to rationalize is the fact you are paying a premium for a Czech company to resurrect a mediocre and marginal US gunmaker's name and try to make it work for them. I've owned "real" Dan Wessons and the marketing and hype on modern, foreign-owned "Dan Wessons" and the premium they charge over "real" Colts doesn't really add up. As a foreign company they build decent guns, but resurrect a US name to market them. They charge a premium for that and on a head-to-head basis it doesn't really add up to much.

I think people buy Colts because they are Colts.

And that is wrong because...?

Sure some people know what an (sic) MIM part is, but most people buying a gun don't.

Nope, they just go and by rote replace those parts because they are told they "need to." Go read what folks do to their non-Colt 1911's on other forums out of the box and you'll be surprised, I think.

Colts aren't horribly overpriced but I don't think I would use Colt and Value in the same sentence unless it was a deal on a used one.

Last I checked, new retail on a Colt was $736. No need to replace MIM parts, settle for foreign produced parts or company ownership (like Dan Wesson), or replace the extractor or strip out the safeties so you can trust them. Works out of the box and retains value. I call that "value." A $500 retail price +the need to replace parts, tune parts, and deal with sub-standard foreign parts does not equal value. I've double checked my math.

If you can't use "value" and "Colt" in the same sentence, you need to learn more about both "value" and our language.

357mag357 said:
Swith & Wesson make a great 1911. One of the most accurate guns I have shot.

I'm guessing he/she hasn't shot many S&W revolvers ;), but otherwise I agree. The S&W is the most under-rated 1911 pistol out there, and often provides superb value. I could never fault someone for buying an S&W 1911 over a Colt if it suited their needs.

Likewise, I could not fault someone for buying a DW over a Colt as long as they knew what they were buying and why. Making blanket statements is dumb.
 
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I guess it all comes down to how you define value. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing Colt here. They are fine guns but I just don't consider them a real value.
 
I wouldn’t trust a Rock Island; they have an injected molded frame, slide and about everything else.

In an ideal situation I'd prefer a forged slide and frame. My 2nd choice would be forged slide with cast frame. I think the RIA is a good plinker. It's not something that I'd cherish but I'm thinking about buying one to mess around with and make a frankengun out of. I'd feel too guilty screwing up something more expensive.:D Usually when I buy any gun I want it to last a LONG time and it's going to get fired......usually a lot (especially if I like it).

Heck, just last week I put at least 50 or more rounds through a Remington UMC 1911 made in 1919. I bet that one has seen quite a few rounds in it's lifetime. Still works like a charm too.
 
Well, IMO, Dan Wesson is the best value in 1911's. A step above Kimber and just a touch below a true custom gun for significantly less. No MIM. That is value.

Now, I used to want a Colt, but to be honest, I am turned off by them at this point. It's not because they aren't a good product, but they certainly aren't the quantum leap over every other gun out there to justify what is being charged for them these days. For example: At a gun show today, I had a chance at an older used Colt 1911 wearing a crappy finish and sights. The price? $750. Just across the room, an older Dan Wesson with a beautiful stainless two tone finish and still tight as a drum. This was the seller's carry gun for many years and ran 100%. Cost: $625. The DW was nicer, cleaner, tighter, and every bit as quality made as that Colt for $125 less, plus it had a match barrel and trigger.

If having the name Colt stamped on the side is what floats your boat, then get a Colt, but value isn't a word I associate with Colt anymore. Everything at the show branded Colt demanded a premium, and that is what I am seeing everywhere. Colt AR's going for $2k, Colt revolvers for $1,200 or more, etc. It is rediculous. I am willing to pay more for specific brands, but I need to see at least some form of gratification beyond just having the brand name. Colt may be a quality product, but is hardly a value at this point.
 
I've never seen Colts at that good of a price. At least not the series 70 Colts. I might consider picking one up if I actually found one at that good of a price. All the used colts I've ever found (series 70) have been well over the $800 mark bone stock. (this is for a used gun) Not what I would define as "value".
 
I had a chance at an older used Colt 1911 wearing a crappy finish and sights. The price? $750. Just across the room, an older Dan Wesson with a beautiful stainless two tone finish and still tight as a drum. This was the seller's carry gun for many years and ran 100%. Cost: $625.

We did say Colts hold value better!:neener:

I bought my last Combat Commander for $650 a few months ago. Pre 80's series.

I see Colts online around here for under $700 on a regular basis.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=7503171&cat=185&lpid=

Colt 1991A1 .45 ACP $700

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=7520020&cat=185&lpid=

Colt GOLD CUP .45acp 1911 ok, that one is $900. but it is a 70 series

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&ad=7475158&cat=185&lpid=1

Colt 45 Auto M1991A1 Compact $500

And that was just what happened to be listed at the moment.

Dan Wesson might not use any MIM parts but they use Cast frames.

Yes, Colts are a good value and I would take any of them over a cast frame.

Even my Norinco has a forged frame, no MIM parts and tight as a drum. Must make it a great gun too...
 
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Colt may be a quality product, but is hardly a value at this point.

Agreed. No diss on the quality of a Colt. I'd love to own one. I own plenty of guns that I have paid well over $1500 or closer to $2000 for, but each of them had all of the features that I was looking for and I estimated that there was enough work put into them to justify the cost. However, $800 to $900 for a bone stock USED GI 1911 (series 70) nice as it may be, is not a value. That is unless you simply want the Colt stamp on your reciever, in which case, Cheers!
 
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I have one of these and can recommend it highly - skeeter_08
 
First of all this is the most opinionated question you could ask a group of gun enthusiasts. You need to take all of what these folks are saying and decide which bits and pieces are important to you. Do you have to have a pony on your gun? Do you care about MIM parts? Do you care if its USA made? Do you want a forged or cast slide? What options do you want? What are you using it for? Do you care about the politics or history of the company making your gun?

Value has a different meaning to different folks:

I have a new Colt series 80 that I paid $700 for recently. I "value" that it was 100% made in the USA, and it has a pony on it.

I also have a Springer Loaded that I paid a similar amount for used. I "value" that it came with a few more options than the Colt. btw - new Loaded models are around $900 now.

So get what fits the bill for you, and remember that you can always add options later. Maybe try to state what is important to you on here and you may get some more specific answers (opinions).
 
I must be too stupid to be affected by Kimber's MIM. Going on several years, no problems of any kind. My MIM parts must be defective.

In all fairness, I would tell someone in your position to look at a variety of 1911s. The Taurus, Springfield, RIA, etc, but most of all, I would look at STI's entry level Spartan and a bit up from there. Very possibly the best 1911 maker in the business, affordable guns, and business principles that help all of us.
 
I see that there was no mention of Glock. I have A Glock 30,which I find to be an excellent carry gun plus it's very accurate in the right hand.
 
I second the STI's. I didnt mention them only because I dont have experience with any models under $1000. I would not hesitate to buy one of those either.

And Kimber is the most bashed 1911 on the web, although I have yet to see a bad one myself...
 
I am no expert, but I have admired and owned several 1911's in my life...

I'd have to concur with TXHORNS. This is like debating politics at the dinner table... everyone has something to say, and not much is relavent. Look at as many different models as you can get your paws on, ask questions, work the slide, squeeze the trigger, etc...

Value is a subjective term... what you might consider valuable, I might consider junk... i.e. Ford vs Chevy... (although Ford isn't in bankruptcy :rolleyes:). So go with what your instincts tell you... Colts are ggreat guns and retain their value over time better than most, if not all. But, they cost a little more in the front door... Springfield Armory GI models are great entry level models, as are Taurus 1911's...

Armscor/RIA/Citadel/High Standard are made in the Phillipines supposedly using the old Colt 70 Series machines and tooling. They're great entry level guns, at budget minded prices. They can be tinkered with and upgraded over time, etc... without worrying about degrading the long term value. So there are so many roads that can be travelled here in 1911land, and regardless of which road you travel to get here...

it's a 1911




I see that there was no mention of Glock.

Probably because Glock doesn't make a 1911... and near as I can tell, this IS a hread about 1911's...

oh, and... only ugly people like ugly guns... :what: :eek: :neener: :evil:
 
Let me add to my earlier post by saying that (IMHO) the best 1911 is the one that has a properly fitted trigger with a glass-rod break at @4 lbs, has good combat or target sights that are visible under low light conditions, and which are or can be zeroed for your set of eyes at @15 yds., and which is 100% reliable with proper maintenance and with a selection of good magazines and ammo. Beyond that, the name on the slide is strictly brand preference; YMMV and that's O.K. too - skeeter_08
 
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