Good first tactical rifle

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Doxiedad

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I'm saving up for my first tactical rifle purchase. I'm leaning towards something like an AR or Sig 556, Bushmaster ACR.

I've found a S&W M&P ACR for $800, which is about half the price of the Sig or ACR.

I've talked with my dad and he's trying to convince me to go with AK-47, talking about reliability, larger caliber etc.

Just how much of a PITA is upkeep on an AR15 versus the newer piston operated ones. My dad says the DI is a PITA, but he's never owned one.

Here's the specific one I was looking at S&W AR15

Don't want anything too fancy, want to be able to put a red dot/ reflex sight on it and maybe a handle or something later. Will be used for plinking/home defense and just because I have the right to own one.

Thanks.
 
Honestly I don't really care for the bushmasters and would try and stay away from the hype surrounding ar15s until the price stops inflating. If you're Looking for something low budget, tactical, and reliable go for a kel tec SU-16. I'll probly be stoned to death for not drinking the koolaid on the ar, but for me it just seems a bit too worshipped at times :p. Good luck tho, and yes I have shot BOTH of the guns and for the price the SU-16 seems preferable
 
Ok my only experience with the ACR is on Xbox LOL If it has problems and costs a bunch I'll think twice or more before pulling the trigger on the purchase.

I'll look into the SU-16, but honestly some of the reason for purchase is the "cool" factor. I don't "need" a rifle, I want one. If that makes sense.
 
Yes it makes sense. If you have the money to spend then that's sweet. The acr has had its fair share of problems and there's a lot better guns out there. Look at the SCAR or FAL as well
 
Definately take personal preference into account, you don't want to wake up every morning with a frankenrifle looking at you. But if you don't need a rifle, play xbox a lot, and your dad is paying for it, then I'm also gonna guess it's your 1st gun, and an AR requires quite a bit of maintainance that even experienced shooters run into problems with. An SKS rifle might not be a bad option for 300 bucks, semiauto, and war history
 
It sounds like this is your first.....we've all been there.

I would listen to your Dad, esp. if he's got experience with guns. (Xbox does not count)

It's hard to beat an ak for the money. If you intend to shoot over 100 yds then maybe you have a decision. Remember, read up on gun safety first. The bullets in real life go through things, and keep traveling. (Know what is behind your target)
 
I have a bushmaster AR15A4 carbine. When it comes to cleaning well it deposits the crap in the chamber and on the bolt but from my own experience I have fired around 300 rnds without cleaning and then the next time about 180 rnds without it jamming.

Cleaning takes a while since the carbon has to be scratched off but if you care for your weapon then the extra work will be worth it. As to which one I don't have a piston AR since my bushmaster works fine if I have to guess I have fired around 2800 rnds and the one jam I had is a reloading mistake.

If you want piston style get an AK47 or AK74. Since I can vouch for them:)
 
It makes a lot of sense, Doxiedad. Buy what you want, but also make sure it is going to see a good amount of use.

Having spent some time in the Army, I would go with a basic A2 style AR15. 20" barrel. None of this "tactical 16" barrel" junk for me. With the 20" barrel, it is still going to be shorter overall than a typical bolt action hunting rifle. You'll have the longer sight radius, so if you choose to compete with it, you'll have that going for you. It is the basic military issue model.

No, they are not unreliable. No, they do not need to be cleaned all that often, or they would never have been adopted as the US military's standard rifle. Even after crawling around on the ground in the dirt and sand, they were reliable.

There's that old saying that you could put a handful of sand into an AK action and it will still shoot. I don't know about that. The AR would probably shoot once, then jam. But keep in mind, the AR has a cover for the action that automatically flips open after the first shot. If you're going to be crawling around in the mud, you should flip that cover up again between shots.

See if you can find something like this used:
Colt Match Target

36407.jpg


I bet someone on some AR forum somewhere is dying to sell one. He bought one to start, and now has decided he wants to either a) Go all tactical and get a shorter one, or b) Go all targety and get a 24" barrel one.

But these are solid rifles. It's just like the one I had in basic. We could hit a human silhouette at 300m with open sights all day long. That is with cheap army ammo too.

If you really can't find one or don't want one badly enough, an SU16 is a good bet too. But it won't be as accurate outside 100 yards as the AR above will be. Plus, they're damned hard to find these days due to their low production. I'd want the CA suffix model, to have the combination of storage stock and the front sight on the hand guard instead of the plasticky one at the end of the barrel. The only thing about the SU16's is that they're getting close in price to Ruger Mini14 prices, and I don't think they're as good a gun as Mini14s. (new ones. Old Mini14s are known to be inaccurate)
 
You're supposed to clean an AR? Really? Crap, mine must be broken cause it keeps on going with only some lube every other range trip. They are a lot more reliable than people say. They may be dirty, but they are crazy accurate and reliable (with a good brand). Especially in a semi-auto version.

When I was looking at my first rifle I didn't want an AR, I didn't want a .223, and I didn't want to spend more than $800. Well, I let the gun shop guy talk me in to a cheap AR. And it sucked. It jammed...a lot. So I went to AK's. I got an I.O. ak and it would not shoot straight. Even after moving the red dot to the farthest part of the tube, it wouldn't be on target.

Then I thought I had to buy a big expensive toy, an XCR, and I thought I would be happy. I wasn't. So I ended up looking at AR's again. I got a BCM upper AR-15 and now I'm a happy camper.

Point is. Due your research, listen to those with experience, shoot something before you buy it, and make sure its something you really want. Not an impulse buy, nor what someone talked you in to.

Don't be like me and realize that after all the trading and selling if you had just bought the rifle you liked the most first you'd have enough for about 4 more great guns.
 
My dad says the DI is a PITA, but he's never owned one.
Click to expand...

Well obviously he knows what he's talking about.

my AR's are easy to clean(when I clean them) and they have never given me any problems.

I think a budget AR is a great first.

I like the AK style as well, especially in 5.45x39, but being your first, you may want to modify as times passes. The AR platform allows you to upgrade parts easily.

You can piece together a new AR for 700 easy.
 
jagter, you're killing yourself for nothing scrapping the carbon off of the tail of the bolt. It's only going to build up to a point and then stop. I don't know of anyone that has had their rifle stop on them because of carbon build up on the bolt.

My AR has over 5000 rounds on it, since it's last cleaning and it keeps on running. A good AR is a fine rifle and doesn't require a whole lot of maintenance, especially considering the number of rounds that they see from some users.

ARs are fun. They are more accurate than most "tactical" rifles and you can customize it to meet your needs. You won't have any more trouble with an AR than any other rifle that is a capable as a good AR is. If you're interested in an AR, I'd suggest that you check out the offerings from LMT, Colt, Spike's Tactical, Bravo Company, Noveske, Ranier Arms and Larue. These guys all make great products, although the price range varies among the manufacturers.

If you just want a rifle to go out and bang away with and will be shooting at nothing smaller than a clay pigeon at 100 yards, then an AK may be what you need. They are good rifles too. Well, a good AK is anyway. There is a lot of trash out there.
 
Ok a little clarification. I've grown up with guns all my life so I know all about gun safety. My xbox comment was in regards to the ACR. I've shot plenty of rifles, but all of them hunting rifles, none of them tactical rifles.

I'm 35 and will be paying for the rifle not my dad. But I also have a mortgage and 2 car payments so the fun rifle isn't high on the list.

I haven't seen an AK I like yet, again personal preference. I'd like to be able to get a reliable and accurate rifle for $1000 or less, even then I'm sure the rifle will shoot better than me.

I'd love an scar but best price I found is $2300 , too steep for first rifle.

Anyone have experience with the one I linked too?

Thanks
 
The Mini-14 would certainly be on my list.
The AKs are OK, more fun to shoot than look at for sure. I'm not partial to them but my brother has one so we don't need two.

If I was going to get the AR I'd get the STAG, but being that I am left handed this is a biased opinion. But there certainly are some good ARs available as mentioned.
 
Just get a decent AR-15 for about $900. Plenty to choose from.

Personally, being on a tight budget I'm looking at the new S&W M&P 15 Sport. Talked with owners, miltary guys and S&W customer service, it's quite a deal for $599.

I had a Saiga conversion for a number of years. It was alright, had some fun with it but once I fired an AR during a match, all that changed. Darn thing kicked like a 22LR, super easy to get back on target.
 
I also thought DI AR's were a pain in the rear from all the stuff I read on the internet. Until I bought one and found out that it was all nonsense. If you want an accurate, reliable tactical rifle that will actually offer some utility, get a good AR. S&W makes a good, affordable AR and mine shoots MOA with Federal XM193, better with Hornady 55gr V-Max. If you just want to make noise at the range, get an AK.
 
I ordered some stuff from Bravo company a couple of months back and they sent me an article on one of their AR's that went 31K+ rds without cleaning and only 2 FTF and I think one was a mag issue. They lubed the gun with Slip 2000 EWL. I think their goal was to sell the lube but the info in the article was interesting.

Local stores down here in Texas are selling Bushie Carbon 15's for $699.


Here's a good read (I'm sure been posted on THR previously).

http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh


Please recognize that I am a newbie here and I'm actually trying to learn stuff here myself.
 
Just get one of the top tier AR15s. You can't go wrong with those. Get one soon before the 2012 election while prices are low.
 
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I'm not cool enough to be tacticool. That said, I have a Win mod. 70, in .30-06 Sprg, that put 3 rounds into a single hole, <0.375" wide, at 100 yds last Friday off a Caldwell Leadsled.

I hear tell that at least one Marine Scout Sniper, wearing a white feather, made 93 confirmed kills with his, during the SEA unpleasantness 45 years ago.

I'm good with my Winny (or my Rem 700 in .308 Win (0.4 MOA), or my Savage 116 in .30-06 (0.6-0.75 MOA)). Some days, I wish I could be tacticool, but.......

FH, uncool

EDIT: PS- I have a 1989 manufacture Colt AR15 A2 that shoots to roughly 1-1/2 MOA with my handloads. I only use it for mil rifle matches, nothing really tactical.

EDIT 2: So I loaded up some special tactical rounds for my Savage and Winny...they had some Barnes 168gr TTSX bulletrs and some Nosler 168gr Ballistic Tip tactical rounds to use on the local furry bucks. I'm hopeful those bucks don't carry rocket launchers to wax my less than tactical azz.
 
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I would stay away from the Sig 556. After owning 2 of these, I am not impressed. The odds of you getting one with maint issues is pretty high and the frustration level you will have with Sig just isnt worth it.
Do a search here, go get a cup of coffee and read for about a half hour and you will see what I mean about the 556.
The S&W you have linked is pretty nice. I ran some form of a M16/M4 for a 20+ year career in the Military. You really can't go wrong with one for a range gun. Lots of toys to add as you go along, kinda like Leggo's for adults.
Some folks have had better luck with AR's than I have and trust them 100%.
My feelings are, in my experiance I prefer an AK for dependability. YMMV, thats just my opinion from running one as a Soldier.
AK's in my experiance are less likely to have issues firing in less than ideal conditions. They tend to be tough as nails but less accurate in general than your average AR.
I would reccomend you find someone who owns and shoots both and see if you can try them both out on the range. Then when your done, clean them both and get a good idea of how they operate and why they operate as they do.
 
okay this is a troll post, but here it goes. Why are you even questioning the reliability of an AR-15 vs a AK-47 in a civilian situation???? Unless your firing range is the mojave desert or afghanistan you will never have a failure that is not your fault or the fault of the ammunition.

Get the great priced S&W your going to end up with an AR at some point why not get one with a great price tag while you can.
 
Personally if i had just one "assault" rilfe it would be my Arsenal AK74. But if you're going ar15 you can get a new colt for around a $1000. Here in Austin a local shop has new Colt 6920s for under a grand but they can be found online in the same range. Colt is higher quality and retains value better than SW, Bushy, DPMS, etc.
 
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