Dr T
Member
This just makes me wish that I had picked up a 1917 Enfield while they were still affordable and available...
Good Milsurp with available ammo?
- Thread starter NeedsMoreMillimeters
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I don't think having a semi-automatic rifle necessarily implies a lack of fire discipline.
I learned how to shoot using a semi-automatic rifle; one cartridge at a time. Of course my grandfather did permit me to run through the fifteen rounds my Marlin 60's tubular magazine could hold so that I could get it out of my system, but after that it was one round at a time.
the simple answer is that many online forums including this one has people who buy something ten or twenty years ago, and assume that its still available, and at the same price. Some even get hostile when told otherwise. This goes for all things, not just ammo. The simple reality is that if you want to shoot anything in quanity other than 5.56, 7.62x39, 7.62x54 -sometimes- 7.62x51 or 9mm, you really need to get into reloading. 8 mauser is a great round, but uses a bullet that is not common in bulk, so I would suggest a US 30 cal round. Mostly that just leaves the 03, and 1917, neither of which is really common or cheap. Every now and again a lot of 7.62x54R will show up for cheaper than reloading prices, but it will be corrossive. Mosin's are still fairly common, though the carbines are harder to get, and expensive. These rifles went for 100$ three years ago. BTW, 8 mauser costs about .50$/round to load with gunstore components, so its not horribly expensive, but you can load 30-06/308 for about .35$.
Panzerschwein
member
I would look into the recent imports of Finn M39s. These are technically a Mosin-Nagant variant rifle but are tremendously better built than the crudely made Russian version. The M39 will outshoot ANY milsurp rifle as well, especially with it's own 7.62x53mmR Finn ammo. They also work fantastic with the dirt cheap 7.62x54mmR ammo that is on the market. Considered quite possibly the most accurate military rifle ever made.Truly one of the best, if not THE best bolt action battle rifle of WW2 (talking about the M39 NOT the normal Russian M91/30).
If you just want to shoot cheap, investigate which battle rounds are inexpensive (probably just 7.62x39) and buy whatever rifle you want, even if it's new. At this point in time, Surplus guns and ammo aren't in the realm of cheap anymore, unfortunately. Personally I'd say go for quality over quantity, which would equate to a good Mauser, Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 or Swiss K31. If cheap plinking is what you want, regrettably my answer today is different than 10 years ago. Buy a .22LR rifle.
entropy
Member
Yup. I gave up drinking 18 years ago. The only time I gave up reloading was when I was in the Army.
Corrosive ammo isn't a big deal in a bolt gun, adds about minutes to pour hot water down the bore.
Dog Soldier
member
If you just want a cheap plinker buy a Hi-Point 9MM Carbine. They are selling for $249 and 9MM is cheap.
Kendal Black
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In that case follow your heart. So far as your pocketbook, try the online comparison shopping engines for deals on ammo.
https://www.google.com/webhp?source...pv=2&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&q=ammo+search+engine&*
Here is the first thing I turned up that way, ~ 40 cents a pop. It is steel cased Berdan primed Romanian FMJ (which sounds dreadful, but it's cheap.)
CLEARANCE!
Good and value-priced ammo for "JS" bore .323 Mausers.
Mauser, 8x57mm JS, .323 Bore Non-WWII Dimensions, FMJ, 170 Grain, 20 Rounds
- See more at: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...CJTSGUSA&cjadvid=1522857#sthash.cBXDHIJJ.dpuf:
I would strongly suggest looking at reloading....it will make this hobby more enjoyable. And you don't have to start out with a $1000+ Dillon....good ole single stage, or turret presses are great....I love my turret press.
Also remember like the other poster said.....8mm is in 2 flavors 323 and IIRC 318. Don't quote me on that....I am old.
Also remember like the other poster said.....8mm is in 2 flavors 323 and IIRC 318. Don't quote me on that....I am old.
Kendal Black
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As somebody mentioned already, there was an Israeli military conversion of K98k's to .308/7.62x51. If you can chase down one of those rifles and buy it, you will have the rifle you want in a cartridge that has better availability.
"Plus one" on the idea that you take up handloading.
"Plus one" on the idea that you take up handloading.
They are pretty popular with reenactors....308 blanks are mucho cheaper then 8mm blanks.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Exactly. Cost per round isn't the same as ammo cost per range trip. Most people I know that shoot steel butt plate full power bolt action milsurp rifles shoot much lower round counts than they do when taking an 5.56 AR to the range.
you are correct, but its hard to say "its corrosive, if your willing to deal with that" in type without sounding like your accusing someone of being lazy/irresponsible. I personally AM too lazy and irresponsible, so I try to warn people. I know a few who really didn't know, and ruined some descent guns. Nevertheless, yup, its not hard to clean, far easier than black powder!Corrosive ammo isn't a big deal in a bolt gun, adds about minutes to pour hot water down the bore.
since reloading is being thrown around now, Ill recommend this. http://leeprecision.com/reloading-kits/lee-loader-rifle/ seems 8 mauser is not available, buy you could call lee to see if they may be made again. You don't need a press, just hammer. if you want a real press, you can be set up to load a 8 mauser/303/06/308, or the stranger 6.5/ swede or 7 mauser and other not common in sporting goods store rounds for less than $150. Standard reloaded dies are available in every surplus caliber.
jaytex1969
Member
There's a reason that stuff is on clearance. It will not chamber in many 8mm Mauser rifles. Something about the case neck dimensions.
I bought 100 rounds without doing much research and had to lean hard on SG to get it returned as defective. Lately, they've added a few things to the ad (like the "Non-WWII Dimensions" and the .323" note on one of the photos to try to make the buyer feel like he/she bought the wrong ammo instead of admitting its out of spec.
I tried two different Yugo Mausers with the same results. They are both .323 dimensioned.
This ain't a witch hunt. I really enjoy shopping with SG. but they've been aware of this bad product for YEARS (go read the reviews and posts on numerous forums) and they refuse to just cut their losses on this one.
It's going to take someone getting hurt for them to do the right thing. Read all the review posts about people forcing the bolt down to fire this crap.
Take note that this problem is for this commercially produced Romanian with the GREEN sealant on the neck and primer in the green boxes. The Romanian surplus with the RED sealant is fine. Other commercial lots may be OK but I've not shot it.
Jay
Kendal Black
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tark
Member
I know a few ( all of em' ) AR owners that would disagree with that one. And My Ross Mk III will put three in one hole at 100 yards more often than not. Not one inch....one hole. A heavy contour 31" barrel, finely adjustable aperture sights and a 36" sighting radius doesn't hurt things.
Moving on to the OPs topic "cheap surplus" has become an oxymoron here, lately. My entry to the contest would be a No 4 Mk 1 Enfield. PPU ammo is good, relatively cheap and reloads nicely. I see the rifles in stores around the area for reasonable prices. If you get a 98, and want to shoot steel cased ammo in it, make sure the stuff will chamber. I haven't found any that will chamber in my M-48.
If you do get an M-48 try to buy one you can actually examine first. Some are missing cleaning rods, or front sight hoods. Look for one with all machined parts. If you see the words "may be missing" in an ad; they almost always are.
Be suspicious of all surplus ammo, treat it as corrosive until proven otherwise. I don't care what the label or ad says. Ask my otherwise pristine New England Westinghouse M-91 what happened to its bore after firing some Russian 7.62X54 surplus in it. Ammo that was marked Non-Corrosive on the package.
GunnyUSMC
Member
I think I own one or more of each of the rifles mentioned in this thread, except for the HiPoint carbine. But I was buying them when they were cheap.
I agree that the cheap ammo for surplus rifles has dried up. But then I stocked up on a bunch when it was cheap. I remember buying Turkish 8mm for $8 to $14 for a 70 round bandolier.
I have hunting rifles but they are not as fun as shooting surplus rifles. So I say, buy that old Mauser if the barrel is in good shape. Search for surplus 8mm Mauser ammo, but only buy it if it cost less then new commercial ammo. The Romanian surplus 8mm is really good and not loaded as hot as other surplus 8mm. I'm down to about 2000 rounds, should have bought more.
Shooting Corrosive ammo is no big deal. You just use water to swab the bore. Two or three wet patches then a dry patch, then just clean like you would with any other gun.
If you reload, are wish to start, you will be able to cut the cost of your ammo. You may not save money, due to the fact that you will shoot more.
You don't have your location on your profile, but if you live close to me, we could meet at the range and I would bring some rifles and ammo to play with.
I agree that the cheap ammo for surplus rifles has dried up. But then I stocked up on a bunch when it was cheap. I remember buying Turkish 8mm for $8 to $14 for a 70 round bandolier.
I have hunting rifles but they are not as fun as shooting surplus rifles. So I say, buy that old Mauser if the barrel is in good shape. Search for surplus 8mm Mauser ammo, but only buy it if it cost less then new commercial ammo. The Romanian surplus 8mm is really good and not loaded as hot as other surplus 8mm. I'm down to about 2000 rounds, should have bought more.
Shooting Corrosive ammo is no big deal. You just use water to swab the bore. Two or three wet patches then a dry patch, then just clean like you would with any other gun.
If you reload, are wish to start, you will be able to cut the cost of your ammo. You may not save money, due to the fact that you will shoot more.
You don't have your location on your profile, but if you live close to me, we could meet at the range and I would bring some rifles and ammo to play with.
unlimited4x4
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Great response Bushpilot. Well said. You managed to summarize everything I've learned researching over the last year trying to figure out which milsurp is going to be my first buy. I'm watching for either a m24/47 mauser or one of the Israeli K98 converts to 308. If I get the 8mm mauser, I'm going to start reloading.
rodregier
Member
Or there are great prices on new .223 bolt guns with wonderful ammunition prices.
Food for thought...
Food for thought...
Kendal Black
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I really like this suggestion. I do enjoy cranking 6.5 through my 117-year-old Swede Mauser, and she's quite accurate, but there is that ammo question.
There is an Arab saying: The dogs may bark but the caravan moves on. Today's rifles are stronger, usually lighter, sometimes more accurate. They are, most of them, made for ammunition you can buy at Walmart.
Reloading is the only way to go with the old milsurps. You can use lead bullets and low power loads that are perfect for old guns at 100 yds. And its really not that difficult. A 170g lead bullet and 14g of Red Dot make a very easy shooting and accurate load for all the old bolt actions.
dh1633pm
Contributing Member
I reload for all my milsurps. I wouldn't know any other way to get to shoot them as many times as I would like.
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