Good press for consistent OAL

[JEBruns]

After reading the thread in here about the Dillon 550 vs 650, I started thinking about the 550's advantage for consistent OAL since it does not use shell plates like the 650 and bigger Dillon machines. Making me think I need to look at getting a 550 for my long range reloading. But what other loaders would give the same results? I'm not the least bit interested in a single stage or turret, so I'm really asking more about progressive or semi-progressive like the 550. I'm currently using an older RCBS Ammo Master progressive for that work, hand dropping the powder. But it uses shell plates also, so is not super consistent with OAL.

And on the 550, does it seat the large primers in rifle shells like the 6.5CM well? The RCBS, I have to put a lot of force into seating them. Getting a little tired of that too.

 

[LiveLife]

Dillon 550 utilizing open shellplate design which eliminates shellplate tilt/deflection to produce more consistent OAL was reason why I used it for rifle reloading. Instead of case base riding captured within the shellplate, case base slides on solid platform.

Lee Precision Six Pack Pro (SPP) and new 2023 Breech Lock head Pro 1000 both utilize "floating shellplate" design where shellplate drops down flat on solid carrier body. So while case base is captured within the shellplate, OAL variance from shellplate tilt/deflection is minimized.

This is repost from OAL consistency myth busting thread. Here's the summary of sample size post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...al-on-progressive-press.921633/#post-12685928


SPP/Pro 6000 kit utilizes the same ram and linkage from Classic Cast .50 BMG single stage press and is capable of loading largest magnum rifle cartriges. I got following OAL consistency in progressive mode (shellplate full) using unsorted range brass - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-3#post-12446468

• RMR 115 gr FMJ RN sized around .3555" were used
• Case mouth was flared to .380" (Used .750" length resized case to set the flare amount)
• .378" taper crimp was applied (Used .750" length resized case)
• Bullets were seated and taper crimped in same step at Station #6
• Brass unsorted by resized length

---

• Blazer unsorted - OAL of 1.128"-1.133" (.005" variance)
• G.F.L. unsorted - OAL of 1.129"-1.133" (.004" variance)
• .FC. unsorted - OAL of 1.128"-1.131" (.003" variance)
• FC unsorted - OAL of 1.130"-1.132" (.002" variance)
• WIN unsorted - OAL of 1.131"-1.133" (.002" variance)
• R-P unsorted - OAL of 1.133"-1.134" (.001" variance)
• R-P "." unsorted - OAL of 1.134"-1.135" (.001" variance)

2023 Breech Lock head Pro 1000 is capable of loading pistol and short rifle cartridges. I got following OAL consistency in progressive mode (shellplate full) using unsorted range brass by resized length - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...pro-1000-unboxing.916672/page-2#post-12569726

• Blazer unsorted - OAL of 1.128"-1.131 (.003" variance)
• FC unsorted - OAL of 1.129"-1.132" (.003" variance)
• .FC. unsorted - OAL of 1.129"-1.131" (.002" variance)
• R-P unsorted - OAL of 1.132"-1.134" (.002" variance)
• R-P "." unsorted - OAL of 1.133"-1.135" (.002" variance)
• WIN unsorted - OAL of 1.133" (.000" variance)

 

[JEBruns]

Thanks. I've never given serious thought to a Lee loader. I'll have to give them a better look.

I'm not worried about OAL variance in handgun loads. My Dillon RL1100 produces very acceptable ammo in that category for me.

 

[LiveLife]

I've never given serious thought to a Lee loader. I'll have to give them a better look.

My sentiment is just like holes on target is ultimately the final word on shooting variables, finished OAL variance is the final word on progressive press operational consistency barring other factors such as bullet nose/ogive consistency, bullet tilt, headstamp of brass, resized case length, etc.

While my bullseye match shooting reloading mentor sorted brass by headstamp and resized case length (And even shaved lead from bottom of FMJ to make bullet weights exact), I ran the myth busting/confirming with unsorted range brass by resized case length to better reflect the "real world" condition of most of us not sorting brass by resized case length in progressive mode with full shellplate to factor applicable shellplate tilt/deflection.

press for consistent OAL

As already mentioned, open shellplate design of Dillon 550 sets it apart from other progressive presses with shellplates that capture case base which may experience shellplate tilt/deflection to add to finished OAL variance. So I am not sure if there are other presses that can produce more consistent OAL variance.

Perhaps other THR members can run sufficiently large sample size of 9mm range brass using RMR 115 gr FMJ loaded to same OAL of 1.130"-1.135" could be used as reference to collect data from other progressive presses to see what the actual finished OAL variances are.

 

[JFrank]

I would suggest a good single stage press will produce the most consistent rifle ammunition.

 

[CQB45ACP]

I would suggest a good single stage press will produce the most consistent rifle ammunition.

Perhaps, but OP said he wasn’t the least bit interested in such.

 

[LiveLife]

I would suggest a good single stage press will produce the most consistent rifle ammunition.

OP said he wasn’t the least bit interested in such.

Yes.

I'm not the least bit interested in a single stage or turret, so I'm really asking more about progressive or semi-progressive like the 550

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

My Lee classic cast turret press. Produces some great ammo IMO.

 

[JFrank]

Perhaps, but OP said he wasn’t the least bit interested in such.

So what’s the crime in telling the truth ? He also said he wants to make long range ammo.

 

[bihj]

I've never had any problems with any primers, no matter the size, in close to 40 years on my 550.

 

[CQB45ACP]

So what’s the crime in telling the truth ? He also said he wants to make long range ammo.

Don’t recall saying anything about crime.

 

[JFrank]

Don’t recall saying anything about crime.

Why respond at all ?

 

[CQB45ACP]

Why respond at all ?

I could ask you same but I won’t

 

[JFrank]

Good deal ‘ I posted the best information I had, then you and the other cat decided to come out of your lane to play hall monitors.
There’s plenty of moderators on this site already.
Have a nice day.

 

[vaalpens]

I don't have a progressive press, so I can't rally contribute to the progressive press selection process, but I am interested in how the variance is measured/determined.

I measured some of my loads where quality bullets were used, but found that the OAL measurement was not consistent. Just by rotating the round a little bit and then re-measuring, I could see variances up to 0.0015". With lesser quality bullets and cases, I assume this could even be bigger. So how do you determine what part of the variance is due to the press, and what part is due to the bullet or case.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Why respond at all ?

Members in this sub-forum sometimes tend to self-police in trying to keep threads On-Track (O/T), rather than bring it to a Mod's attention

If he hadn't responded, I likely would have and pointed out that your post wasn't O/T to the OP's very specific question.

I wouldn't accuse you of of trying to derail or troll the thread, but would point out that you post was non-responsive. Being the "truth" doesn't make a post responsive

 

[LiveLife]

I measured some of my loads where quality bullets were used, but found that the OAL measurement was not consistent. Just by rotating the round a little bit and then re-measuring, I could see variances up to 0.0015"

That variance could be from bullet tilting during seating.

I am interested in how the variance is measured/determined.

So how do you determine what part of the variance is due to the press, and what part is due to the bullet or case.

I check for bullet tilting by looking at the even bulging of case neck around the bullet base. If I do not see even bulging of case neck, I suspect bullet tilt. If I see even bulging of case neck, I suspect some other variable.

Take a look at RMR 124 gr FMJ seated to 1.130" OAL showing even bulging around case neck (Also note .378" taper crimp applied showing square case mouth to bring flare back flat on bullet) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

If you are getting bullet tilt during seating, using stepped "M" style powder through expander will help.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Good deal ‘ I posted the best information I had, then you and the other cat decided to come out of your lane to play hall monitors.
There’s plenty of moderators on this site already.
Have a nice day.

Hall Monitor—that’s a good one I guess so. I disagree about coming out of lane but okay. We’ve said our piece and I agree re single stage accuracy but not on this thread

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Boy i found a surprise. I grabbed a hand full of .223 i loaded with my lee turret press RCBS dies. I had 20 thousandths of varried OALS. Then i checked my rounds for my 223 bolt rifle. I load them on my Lyman T-Mag with Hornady custom grade dies. I had only 2 thousandths of variance. So it looks like the turret lift affects AOL alot. The rounds are good for what i do with my AR'S. Pretty interesting the difference between 2 press systems.

 

[NMexJim]

After reading the thread in here about the Dillon 550 vs 650, I started thinking about the 550's advantage for consistent OAL since it does not use shell plates like the 650 and bigger Dillon machines. Making me think I need to look at getting a 550 for my long range reloading. But what other loaders would give the same results? I'm not the least bit interested in a single stage or turret, so I'm really asking more about progressive or semi-progressive like the 550. I'm currently using an older RCBS Ammo Master progressive for that work, hand dropping the powder. But it uses shell plates also, so is not super consistent with OAL.

And on the 550, does it seat the large primers in rifle shells like the 6.5CM well? The RCBS, I have to put a lot of force into seating them. Getting a little tired of that too.

This is an interesting thread. I might be able to add to LLs data. I have a Hornady LNL. I think I have a bunch of 9mm FMJ loaded up and I can put a mic on them and see what sort of variance I can find. It‘ll probably be embarrassing as I load more for speed - quantity over quality maybe. Like a sessions beer compared to a craft beer, ah yep.

But, this is so far mainly about handgun cartridges, and you discuss wanting to load rifle. That’s maybe bit different. Setting dies using ogive, there is still enough bullet variance to throw the data out. Not much, but a couple thou.

I can load .243 and .308 on my LNL (no way anything bigger), but I don’t like to without sizing on a single-stage first (staging brass smooths the process). Just not enough leverage to do so easily, and I’m not getting any younger. I went Forster Co-Ax a few years back and life is easy. You may want to read below:

Co-Ax® Reloading Press with “S” Jaws

Co-Ax Press, supplied with “S” jaws. No need to complicate the reloading process. Our Co-Ax Press keeps it simple while still delivering famous Forster precision....

www.forsterproducts.com

Not cheap, and maybe hard to lay hands on. I’ve heard some say the MEC Marksman is pretty good too.

Lemme go find those FMJs and maybe a Keystone ……

 

[nettlle]

Not being critical

That variance could be from bullet tilting during seating.


I check for bullet tilting by looking at the even bulging of case neck around the bullet base. If I do not see even bulging of case neck, I suspect bullet tilt. If I see even bulging of case neck, I suspect some other variable.

Take a look at RMR 124 gr FMJ seated to 1.130" OAL showing even bulging around case neck (Also note .378" taper crimp applied showing square case mouth to bring flare back flat on bullet) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

If you are getting bullet tilt during seating, using stepped "M" style powder through expander will help.

Not being critical or saying anything is wrong but why so much difference in the COAL for the 124 JHP vs the 124 MPR? I reload both Speer Gold Dots and 124 MPR and the length of these two bullets only differs .012".

 

[LiveLife]

But, this is so far mainly about handgun cartridges, and you discuss wanting to load rifle. That’s maybe bit different. Setting dies using ogive, there is still enough bullet variance to throw the data out.

Yes, I thought about loading some rifle rounds but realized even for Lee dies, rifle bullet seating die pushes on the ogive, not the tip.

But this thread is about OAL variance of progressive press to determine how consistent the whole shellplate tilt/deflection interface with subplate/carrier is and we need some sort of reference standard. We know RMR 9mm jacketed bullets are consistent enough to be used for ELEY 9mm match ammunition so that's why I suggested we perhaps use the same bullet to measure OAL variance of different progressive presses. (BTW, Lee 9mm bullet seating stem/plug pushes on the ogive and not the tip as there's a hole at the top of the stem/plug)

Perhaps other THR members can run sufficiently large sample size of 9mm range brass using RMR 115 gr FMJ loaded to same OAL of 1.130"-1.135" could be used as reference to collect data from other progressive presses to see what the actual finished OAL variances are.

Not being critical or saying anything is wrong but why so much difference in the COAL for the 124 JHP vs the 124 MPR?

That picture was taken when RMR first released MPR. The old RMR JHP has longer profile similar to Gold Dot HP while MPR has shorter rounder nose (imagine RN with tip cut off) to feed more reliably and to work with .357 Sig hence "multi purpose round".

ETA: Found a comparison picture of RMR RN and MPR

 

[vaalpens]

That variance could be from bullet tilting during seating.

Thanks for the advice, and my apologies for going a bit off topic.

The example I provided is probably not tilting, and I loaded JHP bullets. In general I would think there will always be a little bit of variance with a JHP bullet, just because of the design.

The loads I measured was my 45acp Zero 185gr JHP loads. The variance I saw was .0015". I was just trying to figure out why there is a variance, when I realized that there was even a variance when I rotated and remeasured the load. At the end of the day I was still very happy with the variance I saw.

 

[LiveLife]

variance I saw was .0015"

OAL variance of .0015" is pretty good.

45acp Zero 185gr JHP

Zero bullets are quite consistent and I do believe it is one of bullets Atlanta Arms used for their match ammunition.

 

[NMexJim]

So, I’m a barbarian. I stopped using cartridge boxes and went to gallon plastic bags for loaded ammo. I reached in a grabbed a handful out of a full bag. Not bad for Berry and an LNL - .003 over 20 rounds. I’m happy.