Got into a bad situation the other night

[gabarber1]

I also would agree. The situation could have escalated to the KB stage all to quickly. I personnaly have not been in such a predicament, as I am poor and married with 2 small kids( don't make the bar scene anymore), but had it been me in your spot I would like to think I would have reacted the same way. I will be going through Permit to carry course soon, but I hope to never have to draw- I will be ready to though- The pepper spray would probably have sufficed, and carries a much smaller penalty if the police had not seen it your way. God bless you for saving the day, and like the other post said, "we should all be so lucky as to have a friend like you." I hope you can sleep better at night knowing that your friend got home safe. GOOD JOB!

 

[Duramaximum]

For the most part, this is what we train for. Good job! Nothing ticks me off more than scumbags that want to take advantage of women, drunk or sober.

 

[LiquidTension]

Sounds like you handled the situation well. I do have a question though, and don't take it as a criticism because it's not meant as such.

What exactly would the pepper spray have been used for? Surely you wouldn't have sprayed it from inside the car If not from inside the car, then from outside...and if outside the car, threat of bodily harm/death (they did have knives, after all) would have easily justified drawing your weapon. While I do think it's preferable to not kill someone if it can be avoided, pepper spray may not have been very effective against 3 raging drunks.

Like I said, not a flame...just wondering where the spray would come in.

 

[The Drew]

Since the law in Ohio is that your weapon must be in the open in the car, you could've drawn the .38 out of your pocket while the moron was screaming at you (not pointing it at him mind you) so he could see that you are armed. AND you are just complying with the law. IF the moron continued the attack, I would think the fact that you KNEW that these guys were armed with knives would allow you to use those guns in defense of yourself and the girls (who it seems were headed for a sexual assault or worse)

Not that you did anything wrong, as everyone got home OK.

 

[V4Vendetta]

"God bless you for saving the day, and like the other post said, "we should all be so lucky as to have a friend like you." I hope you can sleep better at night knowing that your friend got home safe. GOOD JOB!"



+999999999999999.9999.

 

[ThreadKiller]

1. Stay out of bars.
2. If #1 can't be followed, friends don't let friends get trashed in bars.
3. If #1 and #2 can't be followed, don't abandon trashed friends. Remember Natalie Holloway in Aruba. Her friends left her.

Ditto!

Ah, the wonders of alcohol. I could retire quite nicely if I had a nickel for every alcohol fueled act of violence and near-violence I've read about.

 

[MedGrl]

guys like those three are unfortunately very common where I'm at college. I usualy have handled them in very much the same manner. I dont have my CCW (yet) and it isn't allowed where alcohol is served but I do have self defense training and a cellphone always handy. BUt I think you did the right thing. +1 to you.

 

[gt3944]

I comend you for your self restraint, I believe that not too many people would have been able to take that..good job

 

[imas]

Thanks for all the kind words. I was calm I didn't really have trouble restraining myself. Although the next day I was thinking it would have been nice to thump on their skulls. I think pepper spray would help quite a bit if I had to defend a shooting.

I would agree with the poster that said it is royally stupid to let the situation continue into the parking lot. I guess the reason that happened is because I didn't really think there would be a situation. I try to be very observant and cautious. In reality I thought there was a 95% chance they would ditch the guys at the bar and go home without a problem. This is why I said I learned something and it's that I'm not over paranoid. I've taken similar actions in the past in different situations to ensure that I would have the upper hand if things went sour. Most of the time nothing happens.

 

[MM]

I refuse to call anyone "friend" if they decide to drink themselves into trouble. They can't respect themselves so they can't respect you. That is NOT a friend, friend.
If someone needs to drink enough to get to a point where they put themselves in a dangerous situation, then Darwinism is in play and the herd will be thinned of this self destructive individual.
I spent a long time on PCS Shore Patrol and almost eight years as a bouncer in a civvy bar. I have seen it all and am neither surprised or moved by any of it anymore. I have mugged "friends" for their keys, when I found them too drunk to stand or walk, much less drive, I have delivered inumerable folks to their abodes safely when the same situation ensued. I only found them doing the same night after night and became convinced of many persons need to self destruct. Well, if they work so hard on it and are so very persisitant in their endeavour, let 'em die. I can't help them and I can't make them understand the risk at which they place everyone who drives on the same roads as they insist on using while drunk.
Lock them up and throw away the key, or sweep up their guts when they highside it. The world will be better and they will be happier getting what they pursue. If you think you can help or change them, you will be disappointed and expose yourself to much danger.
SatCong

 

[imas]

Yeah I'm not going out to bars with one of those ladies anymore. She apparently doesn't know her limit.

I never go out to bars anyway. I'm like the majority of folks here. You can't carry in a bar and thats one of the biggest trouble spots there is.

 

[BedPimp]

Everybody made it home in one piece, so I think you score an A+.

When I go out, I tend to make friends with the bouncers, and anybody else who may be working at the establishment. Usually a big smile and a quick hello is all it takes. It's much easier to get someone 86'd when a relationship with the staff has already been established.

 

[tonyd]

I think you did well in keeping your wits about you. I don't know if I would have thought in a completely rational way when faced with your particular situation -- if I did, I think I'd have contacted the police on the way out to the car via cell phone, just to alert them to what may be brewing. Perhaps if they sent a squad car to the premises it would have taken the burden off of you to influence the outcome, but if I had to handle it on my own it would have been the way you took care of it. I applaud you for your concern.

 

[engineer151515]

Kool under pressure. Excellent job.

I agree that pepper spray would have been of limited value. Spraying from inside a car will almost certainly involve your eyes too.

Personally, when the scumbag pulled down the window, I would have had my hands on the grip of my sidearm. We definitely reached the "you move, I move" point at that time.

No flames. Good work. You may have saved birthday girl's life.

 

[SSN Vet]

a friend in need is

a friend indeed....

the 24 old female grad. student in NY could have used a friend like you just last night.....her good 'ol buddy took a cab home at 2 a.m. ....and to her credit tried to talk her intoxicated friend to do likewise....

the "smart" grad. student went on to hop bars by herself and....

NYPD found her drunk, naked, sexually assaulted...and yes DEAD....body with hands and feet tied, sock stuffed in mouth and face wrapped in clear packaging tape.

YOU SAVED YOUR FRIENDS LIFE!!!

WELL DONE!!

 

[LOW2000]

In CA, assuming you've paid enough to the Sheriff to get a CCW, you're not allowed to carry to a bar since the chances of a confrontation like this are so much higher than in most other places.

 

[The_Ferret]

One small, or rather large, thing.

First, good job. You saved, at the very least someone from rape, and quite possibly two people from being assaulted and murdered.

I do have one suggestion for you. I have myself been in situations where I am in a vehicle, and people are nearby with who I am uncomfortable. Remember, you are in an auto. It is the large thing I refer to in the title. A moving automobile is not a pleasant thing to encounter while on foot. Your single greatest weapon here may not have been either of your pistols, but rather your lead foot.

I would suggest a kind of situational awareness when you park in a place like this, in terms of thinking about using your car as a weapon if needed. You say you parked next to them, I believe. That's good. It becomes even better if there's no one parked beside you. When you pull into the space, you can cut your wheels hard to the passenger side and put the car in reverse. Just sit with your foot on the brake. Now, if Joe McDrunkenClown decides to yank open your (locked?) car door, and breaks your window to do so, you just tap the gas. Is it perfectly legal to use your car as a weapon? I don't know. However, I will tell you that I am not going to attempt personally to draw a weapon and fire at that range, because I believe he would already be in the car on me. And I would not even CONSIDER getting out of the car. There have been several threads here about knives and closing distances not too long ago. You had 3 assailants who would have been instantly in range with their weapons, while yours was still not ready.

Like I say, this is just me suggesting. I always pull up to a curb with nothing in front when I can to wait for somebody. Then, if you need to bug out in a hurry, or use your car as a weapon, there is no complicated backing up, steering from between cars, et cetra.

Again, well done sir.

-The_Ferret-

 

[buck00]

It takes a disciplined man to put legal common sense ahead of his pride.

I commend you.

Someone already said it previously- a hot head like that who likes to start bar fights, will most likely start a fight with the wrong guy someday, and then he'll get his.

 

[CAnnoneer]

One must really hate oneself a lot to get so drunk in public as to be at the complete mercy of strangers while endangering one's friends in the process. Few things are more pathetic or disgusting than public drunkenness.

What I would have done is collected the co-worker while she still was autonomously mobile and left the scene. Letting her plaster herself was a mistake. Leaving the two inside the bar was a big mistake. The pair could have been dragged out the back door where you do not see, or raped/killed in the restroom...

Still, good job in trying to help nonetheless and abstaining from alcohol or brandishing. But also remember that you are really lucky to have made it to this happy end. Next time...

 

[LAK]

All's well that ends well. But this is just one of several reasons I do not go to bars .. uh ... anymore.

I decided that if he tried to break the window or get in other wise that the Glock was coming out and he was going to take a few rounds in the chest.

Personally, I would have unholstered as soon as he grabbed the window and tried to pull it down.

Although sometimes a car window can seem tough to break, when hit just the right way they can also break very easily. And from there you are a fraction of a second away from a hands on struggle, a disabling punch or direct use of a deadly weapon such a knife, impact weapon etc.

A calculated risk, but less risky than waiting for the window to break IMO. The only other thing I would have done, assuming a cell phone was handy, call the police. Probably make it a 911 call as an assault was imminent. The call might have aggravated the thugs, but the recorded call would work in your favor - especially if a shooting ensued. All the thug talk, threats etc, your loud clear warnings etc all on a court admissable format.
-------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[pauli]

two things:

a: stick with the ones in trouble.

b: the bartender is your friend.

if you thought the guys were trouble, the bartender probably did too. go to the other end of the bar with coworker number three, and tell the bartender that you two are going to collect the other ladies and leave. tell him you think there may be trouble. give him descriptions of both cars, and tell him if he doesn't get a phone call from you in five minutes, he should call the cops. then tip him (or her), and escort the young ladies from the building.

there's being a hero, and there's being a hero with a plan

 

[Strings]

I have to agree with what others have said re: not leaving drunkengirl in the bar to start with. Although I can understand your reasoning...

No flames, just a thumbs up for protecting your own!

 

[John Hicks]

I have to agree, you handled that well.

Sometime's the sheep-dog's presense is enough to keep the wolves away.

My wife has a couple friends who "could" get into that kind of trouble. We don't go to the bars with them very often, but while reading your story I could see myself there and picture every other player from someone in my own life.

You deserve an Ice-Water Award. Ice water in the blood, cool under pressure.

jh

 

[Mute]

Three guys with knives? Forget the pepper spray. They're getting shot if things go south. You did the right thing and the honorable thing by making sure your friends were safe. Whatever the outcome could have been, I don't see how you did anything wrong. We don't choose to get into bad situations, sometimes they get shoved at us. I bet that any boyfriend/brother/father of those girls would give you their most heartfelt thanks if they read what you've posted. I know I would.

 

[MinMAN]

Imas, Well done. I'm grateful everyones safe.