"Grach" (new Russian service pistol) Yarygin PYa / MP-443

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Definately conjures up images of garages and toolboxes. But if it's reliable and ergonomic, I'd seriously consider it were it to be made available commercially here in the good ole US of A. 'Course, our good buddy Max needs to do a range report for us ;) .

BTW,

CZ75 = nice looking decendant of BHP.

Makarov = cute little pistol.

Grach = the name says it all :neener: .

Otherwise, agree with George Hill et al.
 
Crap.... Now the vote for the AWB has gone against us... we might have to wait 10 years for these.
Bright side to that is in 10 years, these might be 130 dollar surplus guns buy then.

:fire:
 
[Warcraft2 'wizard' voice mode on]
Who summoned me? :cool:
[Warcraft2 'wizard' voice mode off]

so, here's my $.02 on PYa. The main complaint about this pistol is.. there's no concept behind it. Army just wnted something biger and meaner than old poor Maks. Initially they wanted a convertible gun, suitable for 7.62x25TT, 9x19 and 9x21 'Russian magnum' with the swap of the barrel/spring/magazine;
latter they focused on 9x19 +p+ with AP bullets.
the PYa is somewhat heavy, with strange and awkward grip panels and design, outdated by at least 30 years.

the GSh-18 is much more modern, lighter and comfortable, at least when held (i didn't fired any opfthese yet, but hope will chance to do so. then, i promise there will be a report here ;) )
Russian Army will get PYa, as it is all-steel and can be used to hammer the nails (the way they used to use Maks; not sure if PYa can be used as bottle opener, as we used our old PM :cool: ); the Police, MVD and other LE-folk who still have Maks, will get GSh-18, SPS (this is mostly for FSB operatives in Chechnya) and maybe the newly made Maks...
 
I don't mind Russian weapons at all. They're inexensive, reliable and rugged. The only thing I'd question about this one is are they trying to be all things to all people? I mean the OAL of a 7.62X25 and a 9X18 are a bit different. Even with say a barrel change they'd have feeding problems trying to fire a 9X18 out of a 7.62X25 frame. Glad to see they dropped that requirement. No, if they import it (though I doubt they ever will) and the price is right, I'd buy one.
 
Wow! Now I understand the cryptic suggestions to "ask Max" - that's a wonderful site, and I had no idea the author was active here. Max, thanks for your response, and for maintaining that fine site - there's a lot going on in your country I hadn't known about.
 
That thumb safety is on both sides....

... and it looks equally clumsy on both sides. Does anybody else think it looks too far forward and hinged at the wrong end?

Bart Noir
 
and BTW does Grach rhyme with "scratch" or with "crotch"??

I'm curious about the Russian move to higher-pressure 9mm cartridges - will start another thread on that. Thanks,
 
You should see their Kamaz trucks placing 1, 2 and 3 during the Dakar Rally. They aren't pretty either.

This gun looks like a cross between a Walther P88 and Ruger P89 with lots and lots of serrations.
 
Oh my, oh my -- I never knew that the person responsible for that site was a High Roader...

Max -- I owe you many thanks. I've used your site as a learning tool for years, and it's one of the reasons that I ended up with the guns I did. Thank you.

Wes
 
These trials were started by issuing initial requirements for a new military pistol in 1993. Than new pistol should had have a DA trigger, large capacity magazine, all steel construction and be able to be converted into 9x18 PM and PMM, 9x19mm Luger, and 7.62x25mm TT chamberings.
Click to expand...

That kinda peaked my interest. A modern High cap pistol capable of chucking those sounds like fun to me.
 
Someone asked why the Russians have gone to a "hot" 9x19 to replace the Makarov? Main reason is that in modern warfare you need good penetration to get past body armour. The 9x18 Mak doesn't hack it in this area.
 
Unfortunately, I don't think most of us will get to play with these. For some reason (be it an executive order, a treaty, a trade agreement, or whatever) we don't import Russian centerfire handguns into the US. They're still making and exporting commercial Makarovs, you know, and you never see those, either.

What's more, we don't import "military-pattern" rifles from Russia. You can get the Saiga and Vepr 10-shot AKs, but you can't get the Tigr (a sporting version fo the Dragunov) because it's too close to the actual military Dragunov, or something like that. (I'm sure they came up with some excuse to import one 10 shot, thumbhole stock, semiauto rifle (VEPR) but not another 10 shot, thumbhole stock, semiauto rifle (TIGR). :rolleyes: )

I bet these things would sell for like $300, NIB, too, if they were imported. Might be a really good deal.
 
We can get HS2000 and now XD's from Croatia.
We can get CZ's from the Czeck Republic.

If a company wanted to put in the effort to bring in some Grach pistols, it would only be for the economic gain. I don't see there being any reason to jump throught the hoops to bring this pistol in. It just isn't worth it.
What nitch would this gun fill?

A very crowded nitch... another crunchenticking wonder nine. Other than the XD... name another one what has done well lately. Not the new FN DA-HP, not the FN/Browning Pro 9, not the Taurus 24/7... The market just isn't big enough to make it worth the while.

Let's put a price on it... call it 450 bucks out the door at your retailer.
Who would drop the Visa on it? Show of hands...


4.... 5....


Not enough to make it something a company would really be interested in doing...

If anyone would do it... I think EAA might do it.
 
you're right, EAA is the obvious importer -
I'd spend 450 on the GSh in a heartbeat, easily 350 or 400 on the Vector or Grach -
EAA, are you listening??
 
Look on the bright side. If they collected everybodys weapons like in the movie Mean Guns it wouldn't take long to find yours. I need a new hammer.
 
I don't think you guys understand. NO Russian centerfire pistols are imported. I don't know if they have been. I've heard we have some kind of trade agreement with them where they don't export handguns to the US (like they Export them to, say, South America). They aren't allowed to import "military" rifles either. So no "Tigr" sporterized Dragunov (which fundamentally differs from the actual Drag only by its lack of a flash suppressor and bayonet lug).

Somebody, please, correct me if I"m wrong. It's just what I"ve heard, and coincidently you never see new manufactured Russian handguns for sale in the US, even though they export them like crazy, AFAIK.
 
Correct, due to a voluntary trade agreement. I think they can only bring in nagant revolvers and .22 target pistols.
 
Hey, don't insult my Rugers by comparing that monstrosity to it!

"Grach" -- sounds like coughing up a hairball. Looks like one, too. :barf: Do you think they have enough serrations on the slide?

Now that GSh-18 on the other hand... still funny looking, but in a right purdy kind of way! :)

Max -- thanks for running that cool site!
 
ñïàñéüî, ìàêñ! Your site is awesome! You da man!:D
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I read in Small Arms Review about a potential change in the firearms import agreement with Russia... aparently a lot of new firearms are being considered for importation, but there were no details available. Max, do you have any idea what guns may be included?
 
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