Great article about the 1911, good and bad

[george burns]

This pretty much was the thought process I discovered 30 yrs ago, even though the 1911 is and has always been my favorite pistol. This guy Hilton Yam, is pretty much thought of as a highly decorated Swat trainer and 1911 expert, you may find the article of some interest.
It does describe what has occurred in the civilian market as of late also.
http://modernserviceweapons.com/?p=6631

 

[jfrey]

What Hamilton says is probably true, but I think I'll just keep my 1911s and continue shooting them like I have for many years. I have a few of the plastic pistols but nothing will ever match a finely tuned 1911.

 

[StrawHat]

I read the link. What I got from it was, if you modify the 1911, it tends to go astray. I would like to enjoy a 1911, is it better to purchase a stock pistol and shoot it or are there basic modifications that are must haves?

 

[JTQ]

It does describe what has occurred in the civilian market as of late also.

You don't specify "what has occurred in the civilian market as of late", but if you are saying folks are following Hilton Yam's path away from the 1911, I don't think that's true.

Currently, there are more company's making more models of 1911's than at any time in the history of the 1911. Certainly they are not sitting in warehouses somewhere, so people are buying them.

The Yam article is a good one though. I don't see much to argue with, though it is directed at the "duty crowd" that have different needs than the concealed carry user.

 

[larryh1108]

It seems that what is being said is the 1911 is not for professional use but for use by the general public, there is nothing wrong with having one or using one if you know the nuances of the 1911. Keeping your own 1911 running perfectly may not be a problem but keeping 20 or 50 or 100 running is time consuming and expensive. I like mine and will keep mine but I am not a professional or a competitor who shoots 10K rounds a year in competition.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The M1911. because tens of thousands of Moros, Hatians, Mexicans, Germans, Russians, Nicaraguans, Italians, Japanese, Viet Cong and North Vietnamese can't be wrong.

 

[larryh1108]

Well, Vern, it's probably millions and they're still in use. My take on the blog is in 2014 there are other, and better, choices for military and professional use. I am a 1911 guy, always have been and always will be. If I had to choose any handgun for professional use tomorrow, I don't think I'd choose the 1911, as much as I like them and can keep mine running like a top. Too many other choices, that made the cut, to consider.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Personally, I think it's time for the Army to adopt the M1911A2 -- with lowered and beveled ejection port, Novak-type sights, and a beavertail grip safety with a "speed bump" and 8-round magazines. Put some research into combat-legal ammo, and I'd bet you'd have a real winner.

 

[Jim Watson]

It's been tried, back in the 1980s when the brass was determined on a 9mm and the Beretta at that.
Crown City Arms submitted an unsolicited proposal for a 1911A2 with more visible sights, cast-in front strap checkering and mag well bevel, ambi safety, and probably some other frills I have forgotten.
The proposal also included ammo, a Hague compliant 185 gr FMJ to reduce recoil for our "small statured" troopettes.
It went nowhere, of course. In the first place, the brass already had their minds made up, and in the second place, Crown City was kind of a second class product.

 

[tarosean]

It does describe what has occurred in the civilian market as of late also.

You sure about that???

There are more manufactures of 1911's today than there have ever been in its storied history.

Although we hashed this particular story out some time ago on here. It is what it is, like em or love em. They are not going anywhere.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Of course. When the tests were conducted, a set of clapped-out arms-room clunker M1911A1s were used as the "control" for the tests -- and they beat the Baretta.

 

[Jim Watson]

The official version was that there was a pool of pristine 1911A1s for comparison.

Made no difference, the NATO STANAG said that the next time the USA bought a new service pistol, it would be a 9mm. That is where the Colt Commander and S&W M39 came from thirty years earlier.

There was an unsolicited proposal to convert 1911s to 9mm, too; but the brass was dead set on a double action. What Jan Stevenson called "the convulsive response."

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The official version was that there was a pool of pristine 1911A1s for comparison.

Given that our last buy of M1911A1s was before the end of WWII, where'd they find a stash of pristine pistols?

I agree -- it was a put-up deal. They were dead set on the wrong choice, and nothing would change that.

 

[Jim Watson]

The speculators on the 1911 board say that there were a lot of very fine guns sent out by DCM in the 1950s and 1960s, predominantly Remington Rands.
You can see their pictures on the www as $17.50 1960 army surplus gets bid up to $2000.

A few of those in reserve would have provided comparison with the nines.

 

[alexander45]

I know I love my new one

 

[MICHAEL T]

[QUOTEPersonally, I think it's time for the Army to adopt the M1911A2 -- with lowered and beveled ejection port, Novak-type sights, and a beavertail grip safety with a "speed bump" and 8-round magazines. Put some research into combat-legal ammo, and I'd bet you'd have a real winner. ][/QUOTE]

+1 Be better than that oversized 9mm they carry now .

 

[bainter1212]

I still carry my very reliable 1911s, but for IDPA I use my CZ. Seems like stage designers assume everyone has 10rd + mags.

 

[fedlaw]

It is a fine article expressing one man's opinion. Yes, Mr. Yam knows his pistols, and 1911's in particular, but it is still his opinion. My opinion is somewhat different.
I have carried, competed and smithed 1911's for many years, and like many of us in the "older" crowd, I was a revolver shooter both as a daily carry gun and in competition. I have carried, competed and shot a number of polymer pistols, including an XDs, an XDm 3.8 & 5,25 in 9mm, both of which have been extensive modified for use in competition, Glock 19, H & K's, etc. That being said, I have never seen a type of firearm that did not eventually fail. Training with the Illinois State Police, several of their Glock 22's were out for the count after crawling around in mud and sand for 1/2 a day. I have seen Glock 19's lock up at the range. XDm's, even with PRP striker retainer pins, fail catastrophically when that pin breaks or becomes damaged, and the list goes on. I have had 2 Kimbers, neither was 100% with JHP's. That is why we train for malfunctions. And yes, revolvers fail as well. Just ask someone who has carried a duty S & W what happens when the ejector rod backs out a bit.
All that being said, and keeping in mind that I have done better and achieved higher scores and rankings with one of my XDm's than any 1911 I have qualified or competed with, I still prefer my 1911 as a daily carry. For me "there is no substitute."

 

[rockhopper46038]

I've read that article a few times now and I continue to get out of it the same thing: the 1911 is probably not the friendliest weapon for an agency that relies upon an armorers to keep their pistols in good service and repair. This may not apply to an individual who is versed in and willing to maintain their own personal weapon.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

The speculators on the 1911 board say that there were a lot of very fine guns sent out by DCM in the 1950s and 1960s, predominantly Remington Rands.

That was about 20 years before the tests, and there was a shooting war in between. Certainly the M1911A1s we were issued in Viet Nam were re-builds.

 

[Drail]

My take on that article was that Hilton has just gotten burned out from working on 1911s. Anyone can get burned out from working on the same thing over and over for years. I did after working on 1911s for years. Nowdays I only want to work on my own. It also gets tiring explaining the same problems to customers over and over. (most of which are caused by the owners themselves)

 

[Coltdriver]

The good old 1911 is a dinosaur. I got my first one because it was a pistol I could totally disassemble and easily put back together.

All of the available aftermarket parts had me tuning and playing around with my 1911 until I had it up to a point of being unreliable.

I still have two of them and I love to tinker and tune and bring them to a state of just right for me. My Officers is utterly reliable and my Commander is incredibly accurate.

But compared to any 21st century pistol there is just nothing to compare. Just about any off the shelf Sig or H&K or Glock will be more accurate and utterly more reliable over a longer period of time especially if you compare dollar for dollar. None of the modern pistols from quality manufacturers need a thing to make them better.

It does not make the 1911 bad, its just that it is an ancient design by comparison to the latest and greatest. I will be keeping my 1911's but I started carrying the new breed of pistols a long time ago. Only the caliber is the same.

 

[StrawHat]

Just when I am getting to like the 1911, I find out it is obsolete! I guess I'll just put it alongside my Single Action revolvers.

 

[SnowBlaZeR2]

There isn't a pistol out there that I enjoy shooting more than a 1911. I own Glocks and XDs as well, but make me choose, and it'll be the 1911 every time.

 

[earplug]

spot on

My plunger tube failed this week.