Grocery store robbery situation

[Gouranga]

This is based off a recent happening local
http://www.gastongazette.com/news/rooftop-43971-police-thieves.html

The gist is 2 armed robbers break through the roof of a grocery store while it is closed and lie in wait for the employees and first few customers. They already did the same at a quick service restaurant here.

I got to ask, what tactics, strategies, etc would anyone see that would help you out in this? I would assume with 2 guys, they had to be at the service counter and grab these folks as they walked in off the street. If so, the layouts of these stores is such that you would not see anything from the street, you would not see the service counter till you were in their line of fire.

So I am curious, given this situation, you are walking to the door of this store, 7 am, Monday, sunny day. At this point, what strategies and tactics could be taken/added to your life to keep you from walking in and getting into this mess or what could be done to "deal" with it as you walk into what really, IMO, is a perfect ambush. I simply cannot think of anything. Include anything you would carry, equipment, firearms, mace, etc that would help you out.

 

[Webbj0219]

As for thew customers, you know something is wrong when you go into a store and dont see anyone around. Like back in 2001 when I went to walmart with my JobCorps class students. The parking lot was full of cars, but when entering the store it looked like a ghost town in there. Not a single person could be seen, nobody at any of the registers. You notice it right away. It freaked me out. Was thinking maybe the rapture had happened or something. With this story it turns out that everyone was back in the electronics department watching airplanes crashing into the world trade center. The point is if all the grocery store employees are locked up youll notice something is really off right away. So you go to code Orange and maybe able to make a difference. As far as the oppening emplolyees, it sux to be them. They would be caught more off guard, And probable wouldnt be armed, like their customers could be. company policies.

 

[AWDeanSR]

I have shopped at this store many times and my sister worked there for several years. The way I see it, if you walk into an ambush like this, you are already behind the eight ball. Unless the bad guys are actively shooting at you or others...compliance may be the only solution.

To say this would be a dangerous situation to be in is an understatement! But, A CHP holder going John Wayne on them might have ended in unnecessary blood shed. My tactics in a situation like this would be; first, As a customer, when approaching the store , always look through the window front. If you see suspicious activity...do not go in. If by chance you are in there already shopping when the BG's come in, escape and evasion should be a priority. Followed by a call to 911.

In the worst case scenario where you are caught with your britches down (not paying attention) I see only two choices, comply with their demands or draw your weapon.

If you must draw, do so only when in imminent threat of rape, death, or severe physical injury. Make sure you have a tactical advantage, E.G. cover/concealment, a distraction of some sort to draw their attention away from you, or overwhelming firepower superiority. Be aware of who and what is around/behind your target!

 

[Gouranga]

They gave little details, but that nobody was able to call 911 or escape, and that there were only 2 robbers, the only way I can assume this worked is that they got them on their way in the store. The way most of the stores are set up, I am not sure you would notice anything out of the ordinary until you were already in the line of fire.

At that point, like you said, you got less than a second to make a decision. Assailants are on condition red already, they have their guns drawn already, they likely got hostages, you may get lucky and only 1 has you in their sites while the other guards hostages. I would think, IF, you went for the gun, and actually got it, your best plan would be to use it to cover your escape and get out. A pitched battle would likely turn out bad and result in injury to others.

It just does not seem like a winnable situation to me and of course they get your, your gun now gets in the hands of criminals who may use it to kill someone. Not sure if there is a good answer beyond "Your screwed.".

 

[Cosmoline]

I'd give up my money to live, but I won't be taken hostage. They'll have to gamble that enough rounds will get enough penetration on me before I shoot them or bite their noses off.

 

[Shadow 7D]

How does your gun get into their hands, it's called concealed carry for a reason, and most criminals fail to do a pat down before taking someone hostage, plenty posted here about that.

Like any situation, you have to assess what you have walked into, mostly, if you can, walk back out and call the cops, the criminals want to get out as fast as possible and with as little trouble as possible, the only reason I can see for a breakin like that (rather than just holding up the place when the morning crew unlocks) is to get the manager and into the safe.

Once again, have to assess the situation, could be your SOL and need to trip in a register lane to dump your gun, or take a advantage of a empty store to get cover and concealment.

 

[shockwave]

This is a lightning strike, being bit by a shark. You can't walk into every store you visit on the assumption a robbery/hostage situation is in progress. Your concealed weapon might come into play and it might not. But this is why we train. As a martial artist, training is learning to be ready for whatever happens next. The bad guys usually get the first move, and so you work on building your skillset over the course of your lifetime.

You will never know which specific skill will be most needed WSHTF, so you train with everything you can - guns, knives, chairs, rolled-up newspapers, swords, sticks and maybe you'll have an edge that comes in handy. Above all, as all these situations make clear, your situational awareness is the best tool you have. Just finished Jeff Cooper's Principles of Personal Defense, and at first I was displeased to have such a thin text delivered to me. But, like Musashi's Book of Five Rings, it concentrates on the essentials like speed, decisiveness, coolness and accuracy.

The trained warrior will have tools at hand unavailable to the average civilian. Whether it's the ability to function under adrenaline-surge, muscle grooving that reacts faster than thought, or pin-point accuracy that hits the right target at the right time, daily practice and training are the weapons that the opponent will likely not have at his disposal.

 

[elvis.alive]

Probably just being more observant. Take a look inside the windows and doors on your way into the building. If they were at a front desk of sorts and pulled a gun on you, you would still have a split second to either engage them or flee the scene, call the police, and wait for support.

 

[AWDeanSR]

just an update from the local news paper..UPDATE: Food Lion robbers 'knew exactly what they were doing,' says victim http://www.gastongazette.com/news/robbers-44049-exactly-says.html..

She stated that she was happy that she was unable to contact the police because she believes the situation would have been made worse and would have turned into a hostage situation. I can see her point. It must have been a very difficult situation for the victims.

 

[Gouranga]

yeah. I was reading the update. I realize we are really armchair quarterbacking here. Being there, the adrenaline rush and all. Really had I been in her shoes, I would have lost at least 2-4 seconds doing a "***?" as I looked up and saw a guy standing in the grocery store with a ski mask on at 7am in broad daylight.

It is amazing to imagine 2 men managed to control this situation like this. with 1 of them with the hostages, and the other on the floor. This could have gone very bad very quick. I guess being a hostage like this scares me more than any other scenario cause you are at their mercy. To date they have not killed anyone but if the cops had showed up, this could have gone very bad.

 

[uspJ]

i've worked in retail when i was younger and often you could walk through the store in the early morning hours and hardly see a soul. most people who shop at this time do so because of the lack of people. if i go into a store at seven in the morning i'm not expecting to see the normal crowd of people you'd expect during peak hours. i think if someone walked into a situation like this they would have little time to react and not have much choice except to comply or try their best to escape without injury.

 

[wishin]

All you can ask for is to always be vigilant, because the odds of this happening are low enough to where it will happen when you least expect it.