Growing Popularity of 8.6mm Sniper Round.

Status
Not open for further replies.
R

rc135

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
174
Location
Near the Rockies
Growing Popularity of 8.6mm Sniper Round.
(www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/articles/20071009.aspx) October 9, 2007: The British Army is replacing most of its 3,000 7.62mm L96A1 sniper rifles with one modified to use the .338 (8.6mm) Lapua Magnum caliber round. The Accuracy International "Super Magnum" rifle is basically a L96A1 "Arctic Warfare" rifle modified to handle the larger, 8.6mm Lapua Magnum round. The new rifle (the L118A1) weighs 15 pounds (w/o a scope), is 50" long and has a 27" barrel and a five round magazine.

Snipers in Iraq, and especially Afghanistan, have been calling for a longer range round, but find the 12.7mm (.50 caliber) weapons too heavy. The .338 Lapua Magnum round has an effective range (about 1,500 meters) about 50% greater than the 7.62mm standard NATO round.

The 8.6mm round entered use in the early 1990s, and became increasingly popular with police and military snipers. Dutch snipers have used this round in Afghanistan with much success, and have a decade of experience with these larger caliber rifles. British snipers in Afghanistan are also using the new round. Recognizing the popularity of the 8.6mm round, Barrett, the pioneer in 12.7mm sniper rifles, came out with a 15.5 pound version of its rifle, chambered for the 8.6mm.

Comments??

"In the early days of World War Three, guerillas - mostly children - placed the names of their lost upon this rock. They fought here alone and gave up their lives, so that this nation should not perish from the earth." -- “Red Dawn”

"The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline luggage." -- Mark Russel
 
Pssh, .408 Chey-Tac makes .338 Lapua look like a short range caliber.

But it's way more expensive... I guess .338 is really great.
 
338 Lapua is about the best combination of range and portability out there. It's significantly better than 308 and 300 WM, but doesn't require the heavy rifles like the 408 CheyTac or 50 BMG.

With rifles like the M110 nearly as accurate as the 308 turnbolts now in service, there really not much reason to stick with 308 in a bolt gun for sniping when 338 will do so much more in a nearly identical platform.
 
It's a good round and a great rifle (were I able to afford either I would). However it does complicate things slightly. Greater report, fewer rounds, a new caliber for logistics, etc. While it is certainly useful it does not fit the "magic" caliber bill.
 
GunTech,

Do you have a drawing of the dimensions of this cartridge? It would be great to see it in a comparison to the 7.62 NATO. Pleaseeeeeeee....... :)
 
The 338 LM is based on the 416 rigby and boasts bullets with very high BCs - some in the 0.700 and 0.800s! It will defeat most military body armor out to 1000M and has an effective range of around 1750M, although hits have been scored in excess of 2000M.

Haupmann, here you go:

338lapua.jpg


Here's a size comparison between 308, 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua.

300-338.jpg


338 LM is already in service with a number of countries. The AI seems to be the most popular variant. Sako offers their TRG-42 in 338, and even Remington now offers a version of the M24 in 338

http://www.remingtonmilitary.com/m24a3sws.htm
 
Every one screaming for this, until the next war in the balkans or other wooded, densely populated place, then it will be back to the .308 for shorter range work.
 
Every one screaming for this, until the next war in the balkans or other wooded, densely populated place, then it will be back to the .308 for shorter range work.
Click to expand...

Yep! Always gearing up for the next war, based on the last war.

Don
 
The M110 is already in the pipe, and would be ideal for built up areas. The 338 is specifically designed for traditional scout/sniper shoot situations - i.e. a few very long shots.

Even in the Balkans, there were plenty of opporunities for long range shooting.

Add to the fact that the 338 has armor pentration capabilities far beyond the 308. The goal of the 338 is not to replace the service caliber sniper rifle.
 
Can I put my two cents in? I am a big fan of the potential of the 7mm WSM. I want one for my next gun. I don't have numbers in front of me, but it's very favorable when compared to the 338 and 300wm. I believe it carries more energy out past the 700meter mark than the 300, and I can't recall the 338 comparison...
 
AMU,

Which .338 are you talking about? Because I wouldn't think the 7mm WSM could hold a candle to the .338 lapua.
 
As you get up into the specialized long-range calibers such as the 300WM, 7RM, 338LM, 408CT, etc, you pay geometric increases in cost for incremental increases in performance. 7RM/7WSM are certainly great performers, but they don't "quite" match 338 Lapua Magnum in external ballistics, nor certainly in terminal power/momentum/oomph. It has more energy at 1200 yards than 44RM does at the muzzle.

While 338LM is certainly competent at 1000-1500 yards (and further in good hands), it is not wasted at sub-1200-yard distances. It just makes those shots that much easier. It is a poor choice for rapid engagement of very close targets (0-400 yards), but that's what the SASS is for.

Military .338 Lapua Magnum Rifles: the Sako TRG-42 and the AI-AWSM
In the early 1980's, the U.S Navy sought a new cartridge for long-range competition. Research Armament Industries (RAI) developed a .338 caliber wildcat using a rimless .416 Rigby case. After a few years of testing the .338/.416, U.S. Armed Forces lost interest and chose to focus on the .50 BMG instead. Lapua picked up the pieces, strengthened the case design, and created the .338 Lapua Magnum cartridge.

The .338 Lapua splits the difference between .308 sniper rifles and .50 BMG anti-materiel rifles, with an effective range of 1500 yards against man-sized targets. Rifles chambered in .338 Lapua are the same size and weight as other long-action calibers like .300 Winchester Magnum, or about half the weight of a .50 BMG rifle. This makes a dramatic difference in mobility for shooter and spotter teams.

Accuracy International (AI) was established in 1978 by World Champion rifle shooter Malcom Cooper along with Dave Walls and Dave Caig. They produced one of the first modern sniper rifles, the Precision Marksman (PM), which was adopted by the British as the L96 in 1985. AI modified the rifle to work better in arctic environments and this Arctic Warfare (AW) model was adopted by the Swedish Army in 1990. They had a vision for a multi-purpose long-range sniper caliber and this idea came to fruition in the Arctic Warfare Super Magnum (AWSM) sniper rifle chambered in .338 Lapua, which was adopted as the L115A1 in British service.
Click to expand...

D100_2911_img.jpg
............... Larger version of above photo.

D100_3185_img.jpg
............... Larger version of above photo.
 
Which .338 are you talking about? Because I wouldn't think the 7mm WSM could hold a candle to the .338 lapua
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you call holding a candle, but this is a very favorable caliber by my standards.

comparison.jpg
2.jpg
3.jpg

Note the 7 WSM. It might not be as bada$$, but it's a good ways there.

Sorry if the Lapua 338 is substantially different than what I have graphed... I didn't have that particular caliber available to me, and I don't know if it's different than what I have listed.
 
Anymanusa

The 338 lapua is about 300 fps faster than the 338 Win Mag. It's based on the 416 Rigby case.

And ther Nosler Accubond is a terrible example of a 338 precision round. Typically, the bullet of choice for precision work is the 250gn Lapua Scenar, with a BC of 0.675
 
BTW, the 338 with the 250gn Scenar is running about 2250 fps at 500 yards, and 1689 fps at 1000. Drop is only 22 MOA, compared with around 40 MOA for M118LR special ball. Energy at 1000 yards is over 1500 ft-lbs, about the same as 5.56x45 at the muzzle. The 338 Lapua is still supersonic at 1800 yards at Army metro.
 
"...a 15.5 pound version of its rifle..." S'ok if the troopie is shooting from a static position. Too heavy to lug around though. So is a .338 Lapua. Fortunately, the lads get to use the right tool for any given job. Corporal Furlong of 3 PPCLI(3 Battalion, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry)wouldn't have made that 2,430 metre (2,657 yd) shot with a .338.
 
I guess if they needed a longer range rifle the .338 Lapua is a better choice than a .50 Cal because of the weight of the 50. Even the "light" Barret M82A1 is 31 lbs. and the ArmaLite AR-50 is over 33 lbs.

They might have went with the Barret new Model 99 in .416 weighs only 20 lbs. That round can reach out and touch someone at 2500 yards which is just what you need in the Afgan mountains. (I think they took a 2500 yard shot on the "Future Weapons" show I saw on The Discovery Channel)
 
Sunray,

Spec out the weight on an M40A2/3, AI-AW, TRG-42, or Timberwolf. All are issued sniper rifles to various militaries and all weigh at least 15 lbs.

-z
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

W
  • Locked
Sooo, would you buy a .50 caliber AR15 ?
2
Replies
28
Views
2K
Okiecruffler
O
R
  • Locked
AK-47 Gets No Respect.
2 3
Replies
60
Views
3K
collateral
C
Ivy Mike
  • Locked
Why 7.62 in sniper rifles?
2
Replies
38
Views
5K
Ivy Mike
Ivy Mike
C
  • Locked
Taking Back The Infantry Half-km: Britain’s L129A1
2
Replies
39
Views
3K
JShirley
JShirley
9
  • Locked
Army's Airborne Sniper System -- .338 Lapua
2 3
Replies
52
Views
3K
Cap'n Jack Burntbeard
C
Back
Top