Guess What Fellas? I'm Not Buying An AR in 5.56. I'm Holding Out for A 6.8 SPC

[C-grunt]

The bad reliability reports are not because of the DI system. Once the bolt unlocks and extracts the casing, much more carbon comes into the action via the open chamber than the DI system.

Reliablity problems are attributed to a few things.

1. Improper care of the weapon by soldiers/marines. A weapon that is scraped meticulously clean, to include removing finish, to be accepted by the armorer is being abused. Then being stored without any oil is also not good for the weapon.

2. Lack of lubrication. Lots of soldiers/marines dont put much lube in the weapon because it makes it dirtier giving them more work to do to get it back into the arms room.

3. Bad magazines. Standard GI aluminum mags suck. Newer models like the Pmag are much much batter.

If you want to get a 6.8 then go for it. It is a good round. Better than the 5.56?????? No.

 

[ritepath]

I have two 5.56 AR's and a Mini...I'm all stocked up on 223's what I want next is either a 6.8 or remington 30 upper. Virginia won't let me hunt deer with my beloved 223 cal, I go to WV to hunt deer with my AR's now.

now should I go with a 6.8, 6.5 or Remington 30...

 

[Float Pilot]

Too bad you are not in Alaska, I have a 6.8mm Stag AR and a bunch of ammo for sale. More whammy than a 5.56mm , OK for deer and caribou.... but not enough for some of the places I go.

 

[tju1973]

Where SOCOM goes, the USMC follows with small arms stuff. The USMC looked at 6.8SPC shortly after USASOC/SOCOM field trialled it, but I don't think the Marines ever had a realistic shot at selling Congress on letting them go their own way on service rifle caliber. They then got excited by SOST after SOCOM fielded it.

In other words, the USMC aren't really the folks to watch for what's up and coming with US military small arms these days (which is probably a good thing, seeing how much got done wrong with the M16A2 where they were largely driving the train).

Your opinion, but the A2 I carried in the FMF had zero issue..POA/POI..The sights? Many people--POGs and other services (?) never taught the proper adjustment of the irons, but I can tell you that my beat up loosy goosey A2 had no issues..and I never put a scope on it-- diodn't have any problems all the way back to the 500, and not that much at the 600 (when we got to shoot it there)..

I like the utility of the flattops (I own one), but to say the A2 was wrong-- well-- IMHO, I think you may be wrong there...

 

[ritepath]

Haven't been to Alaska since 96... I've been looking at the stag 6.8's and considering 6.5 ammo is kind of rare and I don't reload, and the 30AR is brand new I'll probably be buying the 6.8 I've been reading on it and I think it'll suit my purposes.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Anybody who doesn't like paying $1 a round OBVIOUSLY doesn't shoot much hunting or precision ammo in ANY other caliber. And those who do - reload to cut the costs.

That's a totally disingenuous comparison as hunters and precision shooters don't shoot anywhere near the amount of rounds as one does through a carbine. Hunting and precision shooting are all about taking your time and putting 1 round where it counts on the first try. Carbine shooting is about volume of fire and quick dynamic engagements with multiple targets. Go take any carbine shooting course anywhere in the country, and 500 rounds for the course is usually the bare minimum. Many courses require 1,000 or even 2,000+. Go take a carbine course with your 6.8 and be prepared to spend $500-$1000 on ammo alone.

This is where the inadequacy of the 6.8 is most evident. Despite what tirod says, round cost is HUGE deal when picking a caliber for a carbine. Practice will always trump minor differences is ballistic gel performance. You can go on and on all day about how much better the 6.8 performed in this test or that, but when you can't afford to shoot more than a few hundred rounds a year, whereas a guy shooting 5.56 can shoot a few hundred rounds every time he goes to the range, that guy is simply going to be more combat effective than you. The rifle and the shooter are a package. No ballistic performance stats can make up for an ill-practiced shooter. And when you pick a caliber that costs 4 times as much as the 5.56, unless you're ultra rich, you are just not really going to be shooting it as much as you would with a 5.56.

Good luck with that 6.8 rifle. I'm sure it will look beautiful in the safe.

 

[Tirod]

Check the 68forums for the dozens of suppliers of guns and ammo. Same for the 6.5G, check their forum, you will find suppliers.

What .30AR forum? It's a special Remington caliber, not an open market offering. I've read that the AR receiver designed for it is caliber specific, and a non standard length. I don't know, that needs to be verified.

With money in hand, I'd buy 6.8SPC for hunting, because you can do exactly that before the season starts. You only need an upper, and you should find one in stock.

 

[Hatterasguy]

Anybody who doesn't like paying $1 a round OBVIOUSLY doesn't shoot much hunting or precision ammo in ANY other caliber. And those who do - reload to cut the costs.

I don't hunt, and I shoot very little surplus. I collect military firearms. Until a major military adopts 6.8 I have no interest in it.

BTW I can buy new Federal XM193 for .30ish cents a round, last a checked SSA was selling 6.8 for about $1 a round. No such thing as surplus 5.56 these days we are at war. I was considering the purchase of an LWRC AR in that caliber last year so I looked into it. I decided against it because I shoot a lot and live within a budget. I'm not complaining about cheap ammo, I just don't feel like shooting $500 a weekend down range when I have other hobbies to have fun with. Its simply a practical consideration, hence some of my rifles see a lot more use than others. Precision rifles by their nature don't get shot as much, your not going to put 500 rounds down range in a day out of a Sako TRG. Maybe 50, so who cares if its a couple bucks a round.

So how many carbine courses have you run with 6.8? I average 5k rounds a year out of my 5.56 carbine, how many do you put down range of 6.8?

 

[o Unforgiven o]

Nevermind...

 

[Tirod]

If you plan to shoot hundreds of rounds and costs are a concern, then choose cheap surplus and reject ammo - or reload, like the majority of pros do. Complaining about the cost of commercial ammo as "too high" is misinformation when all commercial ammo is priced about the same, or worse, as the caliber becomes more exotic or high powered.

"6.8 is too high" is more than disengenous when it's the same as .30-30 or .30-06. It's deliberately spinning a negative slant. For an ammo blasting weekend, MOST other ammo is "too high." That's why people choose 5.56 or 7.62 x 39, because it's cheap paper punching fodder. They could have easily chose .22, and now, many do.

Most shooters picking an alternate caliber for the AR aren't looking for cheap, they have ballistics and performance in mind. Shooting cheap 5.56 wasn't the intent, shooting a more powerful round was. Assuming it would be as cheap as government surplus and complaining about it when they find out different is never called out for what it is, uninformed and naive.

Sorry, my military experience includes 8 years working in a OSUT Basic Training Unit, and teaching the uninformed and naive what is fact, not fantasy.

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

What does your military experience have to do with anything?

Anyways, having a more powerful round doesn't mean jack if the shooter can't afford to become proficient in it.

it's the same as .30-30 or .30-06.

Also rounds people don't shoot in quantity.

5.56 or 7.62 x 39, because it's cheap paper punching fodder.

There's a word for that: training.


What is the OP's intended use for this new rifle? If it's SD/HD, than he would be well advised to put a lot of rounds through it to become proficient. This isn't a hunting rifle where 1 box can last a season. If he intends to pick an expensive caliber, and he actually wants to become proficient enough at it to matter, he's going to need to drop a lot of money on rounds. There's really no way around that.

 

[Mags]

I say the OP should get a 5.56 AR first and then get a 6.8 upper later. Problem solved. I never understood why someone wants to jump head first into the AR platform with a proprietary caliber as their first AR.

Why don't they get a FAL, CETME, AK, or any other rifle that was designed around their precious larger caliber? Nope they want to get the rifle designed for 5.56 but in another less "anemiac" caliber. Granted the 6.8 was designed for the platform but the bolt, mags, and ammo are proprietary.

 

[Tirod]

The point is shooters complaining about the cost of ammo when they obviously didn't bother to check the cost of ammo.

Nothing wrong with cheap ammo for training, why do detractors bring up the cost of ammo with the 6.8 as if it was deliberately overpriced? Nobody promises any non surplus ammo will be cheap.

Shoot the cheap stuff, practice with it, get some proficiency, fine. Shoot legal calibers for hunting, fine. The proficiency doesn't suddenly disappear just because of a caliber change. If you have shot thousands of rounds of .22, I would expect the same level of skill with the 5.56.

Very few train to that level , and for many, it's not needed unless continuing professional education and skill have to be maintained.

If someone wants to shoot 6.8, go ahead, just expect it to be less than dirt cheap, like .30-30, or .30-06, which have been the leading sellers for over 50 years. Lots of people do shoot it. In fact, they shoot ammo that's no longer available as surplus, because the have to. .45 ACP comes to mind. So they reload, thousands at a time, with progressive loaders.

6.8 isn't cheap, right, get over it. .300 Win Mag isn't cheap either, but it might get a little cheaper, now that it's an official US issue caliber.

 

[amprecon]

I don't know how much it happens in theater, but when suicide vehicles run check-points I'd imagine a .308 M60 would do better stopping that vehicle than the 5.56 SAW.
Like I said I don't know how well .308 would stop a charging vehicle, I know a .50 bmg would probably do great. But I'd have to deduce that since bullet weight and velocity are a factor in how much "damage" it can do, the heavier 110gr. or 115gr. .270 caliber bullet traveling at similar velocities as a 68gr. .223 bullet would cause more "damage" against light vehicles. I would assume the method of stopping a threat vehicle would be to either hit the driver to stop it or do enough damage to the vehicle to disable it.
Until tests are done to verify whether the 6.8spc is better able to disable a vehicle than the .223 we'll never know for certain, we can only rely on our knowledge of physics.
Maybe .308 is the minimum caliber required to disable vehicles reliably, but what if it was discovered that a 110gr. .270 bullet traveling at 2,700fps could stop charging suicide vehicles a third as much better than the .223 counterpart?
Wouldn't it be worth it to sacrifice 5 rounds in your magazine and to tolerate a only a scant ft.-lb or more in recoil for that extra ability?
I don't know, maybe the .223 would do ok against an aluminum blocked engine, but I just can't believe a ".223 caliber anything" going at 5,000fps could do much against an all-steel engine block.
All being said, I have no intentions of using my 6.8 to shoot at vehicles or cars unless someone wants to volunteer theirs for this experiment
I'm just trying to make the point that if its just only that little bit more effective........aren't the troops worth it?

 

[Justin Holder]

Hmmm, I like a little more punch than the .223 can deliver, so I'll hold out for a 6x45 or 6mmAR before I jump on the AR-15 band wagon.

But as a hunting gun, so ammo price is a moot point.

 

[constructor]

Most have the 6.8 as a second caliber, most we sell go to hog and deer hunters but more and more LEO's are buying where they are allowed to use their own weapon, the 6.8s are coming in the back door just like the 40 did.
The 6.8 is still being used by some groups US and other but, didn't get past the testing stage with the large mil, that doesn't mean it's dead by a long shot. The 6.8 is manufactured by more companies than any other AR caliber except the 5.56.

6.8 SPC ammo
BVAC--------115gr SMK
Corbon------110 TTSX
--------------115 SMK
--------------115 subsonic
DoubleTap-----95gr Barnes TTSX
---------------110 Vmax
---------------115 FMJ
---------------110TTSX
---------------110 OTM
Hornady-----110 Vmax
---------------110 OTM
Rem.---------115 FMJ
---------------115 HPBT
--------------115 corelokt
--------------115SMK
Sellier&Bellot-110 TTSX
-----------------110 Vmax
SSA------------85 TSX------------SSAs loads available in Commercial and Tactical velocities
----------------90 TNT
----------------95 frangable
----------------97 AP
----------------100 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Nosler Accubond
----------------110 Sierra Pro hunter
----------------110 TTSX
----------------115 SMK

--------6.8 rifle manufactures class 7
Barrett
RRA
Armalite
LMT
Bushmaster
TC
MSAR
Cmmg
Remington
Addax
POF
WOA
LWRC
Stag
DPMS
Noveske
PRI
MSTN
Ruger
Wilson Combat
Robinson Arms
AR Performance

upper builders-------
Global Tactical
Bison
YHM
Model 1 sales

Bullets
Barnes--------------
85gr TSX
110gr TSX
95grTTSX
Nosler--------------
100gr Accubond
110gr Accubond
115gr match
Sierra----------------
90gr HPBT
110 Prohunter
115 SMK
130 Gameking
Speer----------------
90gr TNT
100 Sp
130 SP
Hornady------------------
110 Vmax
110 HPBT match
110 GMX-coming soon
Rem----------------------
115 fmj
115 corelok
GS Customs-------------
80gr HV
99grHV
99gr SP

Proprietary?? not hardly
proprietary (prəˈpraɪɪtərɪ, -trɪ)

— adj
1. of, relating to, or belonging to property or proprietors
2. privately owned and controlled
3. med Compare ethical of or denoting a drug or agent manufactured and distributed under a trade name

— n , -taries
4. med a proprietary drug or agent
5. a proprietor or proprietors collectively
6. a. right to property
b. property owned
7. Also called: lord proprietary (in Colonial America) an owner, governor, or grantee of a proprietary colony

[C15: from Late Latin proprietārius an owner, from proprius one's own]

pro

 

[HorseSoldier]

Your opinion, but the A2 I carried in the FMF had zero issue..POA/POI..The sights? Many people--POGs and other services (?) never taught the proper adjustment of the irons, but I can tell you that my beat up loosy goosey A2 had no issues..and I never put a scope on it-- diodn't have any problems all the way back to the 500, and not that much at the 600 (when we got to shoot it there)..

Right -- the USMC developed a rifle better suited to qualifying on the USMC standard qual course -- and not any better suited to actual combat shooting, which has precious little to do with the USMC qualification course.

 

[Girodin]

The 6.8 is manufactured by more companies than any other AR caliber except the 5.56.

Are talking about rifles/uppesr or the ammo?

 

[Lakedaemonian]

From a US Navy Vet...

It REALLY depends on what you intend on doing with it. If, clearing rooms... the 5.56 is considered best by most, by that I mean seasoned operators... For the reason that it kills the person your shooting and if it passes through a wall it wont have enough "balls" to kill friendlies. If, you intend on engaging hostiles within 400 yards with maginal wind drift then 6.8 is your tool. However, if your getting it for SHTF... 5.56 all the way for ammo abundance.