Gun Control and Civil Disobedience

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The trend over the last ten years has been positive. Gun owners are learning the nuances of public relations. Guns sold to new owners aren't being bought with giving them up in mind -- and far more guns are now being bought for defense than for sports. I wouldn't count us out of the fight yet.

I also wouldn't want to be an anti known to us by name if it ever gets really bad. The Irish civil war of 1921 would look benign by comparison. We might not do well against Army assault but I am pretty sure wiping out the civilian supporters of gun control wouldn't take but a few weeks.
 
Like hell I'm turning mine in....wait I mean I don't have any guns anymore they were destroyed in a fire, while sinking to the bottom of a lake.
 
Oleg Volk said:
We might not do well against Army assault but I am pretty sure wiping out the civilian supporters of gun control wouldn't take but a few weeks.

Wow, I didn't expect a moderator to make such a statement. You, Sir, have courage beyond most citizens of this country.
 
Now I have to ask something, can you a United States Citizen Charge the U.S Government of a unconstitutional law.

and if not why are we not in Washington D.C Making it happen.


Thomas Jefferson: "And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. ... The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

George Washington: "A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government."
 
Heller Vs. D.C.?

Should have added more. Now please for give my if I'm wrong I haven't taken my advanced Constitution Classes, I'm still learning. Congress has 21 Powers by the Constitution But they have shown more than that, that do not fit as a Clause.That being said with the actions of the Government not just Congress but as well as the President well outside the powers of Government.Does this not give the American people the right to press the reset button on the Government? I understand that this would be a "terrorist" act in the eye's of Government and the army would wipe them of the face of the earth but would it not be a just Rebellion? Such as War of the Regulation?(lower class citizens took up arms against corrupt colonial officials)
 
Someone mentioned marching on Washington as a "million gun march." I love the idea but marching with guns seems like an invitation to get arrested and have all your guns taken away. I seem to remember something from a history class where a bunch of unarmed citizens burned the ends of broomsticks to make them black and formed up like soldiers. The opposing army (i think the british, probably during the revolution or the war of 1812) saw an army with guns many times the size of the actual armed force, demoralizing the troops and winning the day for the broomstick army. I think if we paint enough broomsticks black and march on DC, it would have a similar effect without risking our guns and criminal records.
I know i started this thread with more extreme measures in mind, but I'm not looking to turn "criminal" in the eyes of the gov until the SHTF. nonviolent protest is my weapon of choice until forced to upgrade.
 
In my opinion, as far as "rallying" goes, it has to do with convincing a population that they have nothing left to lose.

In America, as wealthy as it is, that could be a nearly impossible task. It could be even more difficult when one understands that those that are willing to exert effort toward the retention of the Second have enough money to have a house, a family, food, and clothing, at which point, they will finally buy and own guns.

I say "nothing left to lose" in the sense that RKBA must be understood as a requisite for freedom. While I've lived my life as a bleeding-heart, democratic, utilitarian, "most good for the most number of people" type of spirit, I retain the idea that the Second is to resist tyranny. Personal tyranny. But what happens when your pursuit of happiness entails an illegality?

I've had to prioritize my rights in accordance with my personal philosophies, which should be an illegality of the governments in the first place, but I feel that the Second should be, and is in fact MEANT to be left alone. Ignored and left as written. As said, the beauty of the Second is that it can be ignored until it becomes necessary (Franklin?). My rights don't mean a damned thing if I can't protect them, and if my rights to protect them via the law are taken, I need a tangible and effective way to protect my right to not be murdered by my government for doing nothing wrong. I'm pretty sure that that could be described as tyranny.

It is incredibly simple, Mr. Gov't: Respect the understanding that our guns are in our homes in case the government does something that they know beforehand, is inherently wrong. The True American Citizen's Firearm won't be used except to preserve our lives first and foremost, our inalienable rights as humans and children of God second, and lastly, to provide ourselves with a means for survival, and a vessel for our pursuit of happiness.
 
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Wherever there apt to be civil disobedience there will be gun control to a certain extent. Look at the history of rioting and where rioting occurs. New Olreans and Los Angeles to name the more recent.
 
Someone said that a million gunowners march on Washington would be impossible, since onbly a few percent of gunowners would show up. A few percent of 80 million gunowners is at least 1.6 million men and women. Add a couple of would be gunowners from the DC itself and other heavy restricted areas and it will be a huge turnout. Also, start it up with a few friends, take a Bag of Coke or mountain Dew and a can of coffee, make a couple of "second awareness signs" and sit down on the steps of the state parliament or the city hall or whatever every wednesday between 10.00 and 14.00 when people start showing an interest in your presense, start bringing information pamphlets, about CCW, about the second amendment, about the enemies of the second amendment and so on.

I am off a good mind to start doing this myself over here in sweden, though, in our case it is not defending a human right, it is trying to claim that same human right.
 
Women marched in the streets in DC for years. Blacks marched in the streets for years. Gays have marched in the streets for years. Pro- Choice abortion supporters marched and still march in the streets. Anti-war things march evetime there is a war.. Union workers strike. Gun owners.................................

If gun owners marched in D.C. nobody would know about it because the mass media would ignore it, most likely. Case in point, every January there is a gathering in D.C. that draws hundreds of thousands of people. Unless your involved in the movement you probably haven't even heard of it.

To quote Michelle Malkin

If they were illegal alien activists, they’d get front-page coverage, multimedia packages, and prime time on TV airwaves.

If they were anti-war activists, they’d get front-page coverage, multimedia packages, and prime time on TV airwaves.

Gun owners would likely get the same media treatment as the pro-lifers do.

1life.jpg
 
I also wouldn't want to be an anti known to us by name if it ever gets really bad. The Irish civil war of 1921 would look benign by comparison. We might not do well against Army assault but I am pretty sure wiping out the civilian supporters of gun control wouldn't take but a few weeks.

Wiping them out would accomplish what, exactly? What you describe, sir, sounds awfully like a purge. Grazdanin Stalin would smile to hear you talk so.
 
-joe demko
A purge is when the powers that be do it, when random people being targeted by those powers do something it is resistance.
Besides which, i believe that when the first ten or twenty gun owners have been killed resisting confiscation, qute a few gun owners would go "Lee Harvey Oswald" on the .gov A sniper in every highrise, if one gunowner in a thousand decides to go out in a blaze of glory, and is marginally competent about it that is 80 000 government officials or gun control pundits being killed, if you manage to kill only one, then there is an unknown number of police and military killed to take down each of those gunowners. A H&H 600 Nitro to the chest from 20 yards wont be stopped by most personal armour. Nor will a 30.06 to the face.
Today the gun control people are fighting you in a war of attrition, when they make it impossible for you to shoot legally, you are only a generation or two from being defeated.
Get yourself organised and start fighting back effectively in that war of attrition. You can shootm they cant, so they choose a battlefield that they own, the MSM and the legislative bodies. Get familiar with those battlefields and the tactics to use, then go there in well disciplined formations and gun them down using their own weapons. Your swordarm may be tied, but your penhand isnt.
 
"Wiping out civilian gun control supporters" is mass-murdering tripe whatever you want to call it. Comrade Volk is touting the same old "everything will be fine if we just kill all these people" garbage that led to overflowing graveyards in places all over the world.
You know what? You can't murder your way to righteousness.
 
In my humble opinion - we (as a group) would benefit from the lessons learned by all those who market products of any kind. Fear is one way to do it, but fear is NOT a good motivator when it comes to selling something related to guns because people who are afraid tend to be afraid of guns. So we need to put forth a solid, wholesome, fun loving, friendly, anti-violent, anti forceful, united with liberals, united with God, united with (insert your special interest here) front that can be turned ever so slightly to one side or the other to meet the current audiences needs. Just like politics!!

How about the following events:
Self defense classes for families - everyone deserves to be safe!
Kids day in the park (what ever happened to kids playing in parks?)
Anti violence rallies and events sponsored by Gun Owner Groups.


Attend events and befriend those who have differing opinions - yes, even anti violence rallies where they want to eliminate guns. We are taught to avoid the violence - unless it is inevitable. Help them understand the essence of non-violence:

"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." -- The Dalai Lama, May 15, 2001, at the "Educating Heart Summit" in Portland, Oregon


Kill "them" with kindness and as Nancy Reagan says "Just Say No" when it comes to giving up our rights to bear arms. Be nice and smile, while you say it too, then explain why a personal choice to bear arms is to everyone's benefit by giving examples that are rehearsed and touch the heart. Who amongst us doesn't have at least one personal story of senseless violence to paint the picture?


I carry concealed, and when it comes to my personal safety, I take full responsibility... regardless of the laws meant to stop criminals. When I become a criminal, I'll pay closer attention to those laws.
 
The United States envisioned by the famous movers and shakers of the 18th century is dead. We aren't even as free as Canada or Iceland anymore. Look at us--we're discussing in perfectly realistic tones what to do if and when the government, sworn to protect our individual rights, comes knocking on our doors to collect our guns. Which would be the beginning of the police state, then and there.

How would a civil war against antis solve anything? They should theoretically be powerless; it's the government that actually enacts the ridiculous laws etc. for which the antis lobby. The antis are the leaves of evil, so to speak, while the government is the root.

Interesting thread.
 
Civil disobedience is basically a way to change the hearts and minds of third party observers, in the hopes that this will shame the perpetrator government into changing its behavior.

Images of people peacefully protesting, holding hands, and being subjected to violence by soldiers or paramilitary cops are compelling. Countries that have a national conscience and/or care how they appear to others tend to respond to this. The response is greater when the people practicing civil disobedience appear particularly innocent, helpless, and/or powerless.

Gun owners would be too easy to demonize by a government bent on disarmament. Just knowing they own guns would make them seem scary to many people. If just one or two gun owners shoot back, this would feed the propaganda machine mightily.

I thought the open carry march (Ohio, was it?) was a good idea. But if you fast forward to a future US where total gun ban and confiscation is a real possibility, I don't see how civil disobedience would be effective.
 
"1) turn them over peacefully and live another day with your family,"

Just like the Jews in Europe did in 1938.
 
If the 2nd does not apply to the States. Then it will depend on the State Constitution to protect us. Fortunately, at least so far, the Georgia Court has protected the rights of gun owners fairly well.
I don't understand this. Are you saying that the constitution only limits the Federal Government?

I was under the impression that the Bill of Rights recognizes the fundamental Rights of all people, and that no government, federal or state, could infringe upon.

Remember...the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land, and no state or local government can pass laws that contradict federal law.
 
Oleg, I agree with Joe. What you proposed sounded like mass murder. A purge in its purest form. The slaughter of people whose ideas are dangerous.

It didn't sound like you said gun owners should only be defending themselves from people who were actively acting upon their ideas and forcibly disarming other people.

Our best hope to protect our ability to keep and bear firearms is through ideas. If you convince enough people that such ideas are stupid, you won't need to use violence to protect your life. As a friend of mine said, "The best way to stop an unjust war is to convince the people at the front lines not to pull the trigger." You'd be hard-pressed to stop an unjust war by killing everyone involved.

Please clarify or retract your statements, Mr. Volk.

-Sans Authoritas
 
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