Gun Control for Fake Guns

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_re_us/fake_gun_control

Bills seek punishment for use, display of fake weapons

By LUCAS L. JOHNSON II, Associated Press Writer Sat May 3, 2:01 PM ET

NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Concerns that realistic-looking toy weapons are confusing police and threatening safety have led 15 states to try going beyond gun control and cracking down on fake firearms.
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Officer Micheal Hoover knows a fair amount about guns as a sniper instructor for a Tennessee SWAT team. He recalls the night two years ago when a car pulled up beside him on a highway and the passenger waved what looked like an Uzi.

"It scared me," he said. "If anyone is in their right mind, I don't see how it wouldn't."

Hoover was off duty and called for police help. A 20-year-old man was charged with aggravated assault after police found a black plastic Uzi submachine gun under the car's passenger seat, but he was acquitted because jurors felt the officer should have been able to tell it was only a toy.

Lawmakers across the country are coming to a different conclusion, deciding that it is so hard to differentiate the toys from the fakes that public safety demands they take action.

Among those 15 states, seven bills limiting fake guns are pending this year and 21 have been enacted since 1990, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Some states have enacted or are considering multiple measures. They range from prohibiting imitation firearms in vehicles to banning the toys from convenience stores.

Tennessee lawmakers are considering a proposal by state Rep. John Deberry to make it a misdemeanor to intentionally display or expose "an imitation firearm in a public place in a threatening manner." Exceptions include justifiable self defense, lawful hunting, and displays such as a museum collection.

Deberry said he wants to prevent incidents like one last year in which a 12-year-old boy was killed in West Memphis, Ark. DeAunta Farrow was shot by a police officer who said he thought the boy was carrying a gun and that the youngster refused to obey orders to halt. Investigators later said DeAunta had a toy gun.

"It's important that a child cannot walk into one of these little convenience stores, plop down a dollar and walk out with something that can get him shot on the spot without question," Deberry said.

A spokeswoman for the Toy Industry Association declined to comment on the trend toward fake gun legislation but referred a reporter to its Web site, which states that it "emphatically rejects the scenario that casts toys as villains."

Federal law requires toy guns or imitations to bear an orange tip to indicate they're not real.

However, lawmakers say those tips are often disguised or removed.

"It only takes 30 seconds for a kid to either take a marker or some paint, or shoe polish, and that orange tip is gone," said Deberry. He said the imitation guns are nearly identical in size, design and color to real ones.

"One of the imitation weapons I got at a convenience store looked very much like the assault weapons that the secret service and other FBI agents carry under their suits," he said. "Another one was a handgun that had a silencer on it."

New Jersey state Sen. Bob Smith has proposed legislation that would make it a crime to remove the tips or "obscure" a firearm by adding a tip to it.

"If police are called to the scene and don't see those tips, then they open fire because it appears the person has a deadly weapon," said Smith. "The officer doesn't have too many choices."

In Florida, state Sen. Gary Siplin has a bill that would prohibit individuals from carrying a paintball gun in a vehicle. He said he had been told about youngsters brandishing such guns while driving. He said if they're bold enough to do that they might use the fake weapon to commit a crime.

"Sometime these people try to go into a store and try to rob it with a toy gun, and if the police come they may shoot thinking it's a real gun," Siplin said.

The leading U.S. opponent of gun control doesn't think much of legislation that seeks to control fake guns.

National Rifle Association spokesman Ashley Varner said anti-toy gun legislation is "silly" because "it doesn't deal with issues of crime."

"It won't eradicate the human element of the crime," she said. "It doesn't target getting criminals off the street."
 
Lets see .there have been bills to ban toy guns, because cops they look real and they end up shooting kids, and there have been bills to ban real guns with "non-standard" colors, because they look like toys, which supposedly causes cops to not shoot and they get shot becsue of it. seems a little contradictory, but, what do I know. I'm not a politician.
Maybe we should just ban all guns,both toy and real. Oh, and pictures, drawings, discussions and thoughts of guns too.
When evil guns arent busy disguising themselves as toys and getting cops killed, they are making cops think toys are real, and getting kids killed. When we wil put a stop to the magical evil power of guns!?? :rolleyes:

My thought is, if you point a toy gun at someone with the intent to commit a crime, or frighten/intimidate them, it is in efect now a real gun, and if your actions get you shot, to bad. The "sweet little angel' shouldnt have been trying to commit a crime, toy gun or not.He'll just grauate on to getting a stolen real gun as soon as he robs enough to afford one, so, problem solved. One less armed criminal, and the law abiding,respnsible, smart, well raised, normal kids get to keep thier toys instead of losing them because of something criminals did, not them (gee,that sounds awful familiar.Am I detecting a pattern here?).
 
"It's important that a child cannot walk into one of these little convenience stores, plop down a dollar and walk out with something that can get him shot on the spot without question," Deberry said.

If the laws we've already got haven't prohibited stupidity, what makes leftist extremists think still more laws will do so? I think they just love passing laws for the sake of passing laws.
 
I nearly shot an employee once who tried to point a toy Uzi at me in the dark. He was backlit by a streetlight. I pushed the 'Uzi' offline. I own an Uzi and noticed that the inertia as I pushed it aside was not right. If I had not been able to make contact, I would have shot him.

Now this doesn't mean I support this idiotic legislation. As noted, the legislation doesn't address stupid.
 
As a LEO I can verify that these modern airsoft guns do pose problems...

I'm not saying that they should be banned, but many of them look very similar to real guns (the good ones are to the point that you would need to physically handle them to determine that they are indeed a toy gun).

I've damn near shot a couple of folks with those fake guns, and I've responded to numerous robberies where we ultimately found that the assailant used a fake gun.

For all practical purposes, if you use a fake gun you will be charged as if it were real: If you menace someone with a realistic looking airsoft gun, you will be charged with Felony Menacing. Whether you use a real of fake gun in a robbery is also irrelevant, the charge is the same.

I could honestly care less if gang bangers are being killed by cops or citizens when they pull realistic looking fake guns on them... They knew the consequences of those actions.

And, really, the robbery thing won't be controlled by any legislation on these things either (there are plenty of black market stolen guns available for sale on the streets, and many of the robberies are simply "strong-arm" style). Certainly the 'bangers like to carry them because they know that if they are simply caught with one of these in their car, they won't be charged in the way they might with a real gun. They also won't be charged with Possession of a Weapon by a Previous Offender. But, again, if we catch them for a crime with that gun, it is just like a real gun.

Ultimately, my biggest concern on this subject is about the children. It won't be long before some naive kid gets shot by an officer who believes someone is pointing a real gun at him/her. That would be the real tragedy! And, you can't train beyond this... Some of these guns are VERY realistic looking... far beyond something you could identify as fake during an encounter with a person who was waving it around.

To make things worse, some folks have been painting real guns to look like fake guns now... More icing on the cake.
 
Wasn't there just a thread here the other day where the poster was really pissed off because someone pointed a fake gun at him?
 
Anyone who would point a toy gun at anyone that they don't know is an idiot, anyone who would point one at a police officer either has a terminal case of stupid, or is trying to commit suicide by cop.
 
my estate in brighton had a buy back to get rid of cheap spring pistols too many kids firing pellets at all and sundry and the arv turning up once too often:mad::
swap your airsoft bb gun for a water pistol and the local market was leaned on to stop selling them.
seems to have cleared the local problem up
 
A couple of days ago, I heard a radio news report that have not found written confirmation of.

In the Detroit area, a robber used a real gun with an orange painted tip. A clerk who saw the orange tip struggled with the robber believing that the gun was fake or a toy. The clerk was shot.

It occurs to me that the orange tip was an intentional invitation to resistance -- and therefore, if a death occurs, premeditated murder.
 
Want to solve the problem of kids getting shot for having a toy gun?

1:Make them realize that painting or otherwise coloring the gun can get them shot.
2:Brandishing or pointing it at random people can get them shot.
3:Aiming in the general direction of a cop can get them shot.

I have no problem with kids and toy guns. But they should be taught a basic knowledge of the rules of life. Doing something stupid can cost you your life, and making a toy gun look more real, or flashing an airsoft at someone you don't know, especially a cop, is a stupid idea.

I think the biggest mistake we've made as a society is to assume that kids will turn out okay if they don't have any instruction. "They'll learn." No, they won't. They'll grow up to be a moron who gets shot by the police for doing something stupid. Safety starts with training, and training starts at home by the parents.
 
I've seen airsoft guns that look exactly like an M4 carbine right down to the rail system. Some of these airsoft guns cost more than the real thing! The problem is that you can't take the extra 2 or 3 seconds when a gun is pulled on you or pointed in your direction to ponder whether the gun is real or not. I agree that some sort of legislation is needed to stop this problem.
 
Anyone waving around a fake pistol like it is the real deal is just asking to get shot.

That said, this is senseless legislation. Who are they trying to protect? The idiot with the fake pistol? People like that really don't need legal protection. They need a good slap in the back of the head!
 
Tennessee lawmakers are considering a proposal by state Rep. John Deberry to make it a misdemeanor to intentionally display or expose "an imitation firearm in a public place in a threatening manner." Exceptions include justifiable self defense, lawful hunting, and displays such as a museum collection.
Lawful hunting with a fake gun? Who the heck does that? :rolleyes:
 
Well since they are having an increasingly harder time banning the real thing,, They are apparently retreating more and more in the world of fantasy and make believe...
 
1:Make them realize
You can't make kids "realize" anything, it might hurt their self-esteem :rolleyes:.
"It only takes 30 seconds for a kid to either take a marker or some paint, or shoe polish, and that orange tip is gone," said Deberry.
So, you just admitted that the fault lies with the end-user of the product, and your answer is legislation against the product. Brilliant.
"One of the imitation weapons I got at a convenience store looked very much like the assault weapons that the secret service and other FBI agents carry under their suits," he said. "Another one was a handgun that had a silencer on it."
Oh noes, something looked like a politically-invented genre of weapon, the "assault weapon," and a handgun with what looked like a suppressor! Last time I checked, both were still legal to own--at least in my state.
Anyone who would point a toy gun at anyone that they don't know is an idiot, anyone who would point one at a police officer either has a terminal case of stupid, or is trying to commit suicide by cop.
Yep.

They should be directing their legislation against the idiots behind the things, rather than at the things themselves. Just like in the not-so-imitation realm.
 
I could honestly care less if gang bangers are being killed by cops or citizens when they pull realistic looking fake guns on them... They knew the consequences of those actions.
I really can't feel sorry for anyone with one who ignores multiple commands to drop it.

Anyone who would point a toy gun at anyone that they don't know is an idiot, anyone who would point one at a police officer either has a terminal case of stupid, or is trying to commit suicide by cop.
So true.
 
mark k, that was me ;)

Not that my experience makes me an expert or anything, but I don't necessarily see a problem with making it easier to charge people who "publicly display" a fake weapon in a "threatening manner." Then again, this could backfire into a law that is overused and eventually becomes prohibitive of lawful uses of fake AND real guns. I don't know exactly how I feel about it. But from my point-of-view, it would have been really nice to slap the guy who pointed a toy gun at me with a misdemeanor rather than let him go because he didn't specifically intend to threaten me with it.

I do think that banning fake guns altogether is even dumber than banning real guns.

Also, anyone else curious how a fake gun can be used for hunting? :neener:
 
coloradokevin said:
For all practical purposes, if you use a fake gun you will be charged as if it were real: If you menace someone with a realistic looking airsoft gun, you will be charged with Felony Menacing. Whether you use a real of fake gun in a robbery is also irrelevant, the charge is the same.
Exactly. And simply pointing a finger through a coat pocket when robbing someone is still armed robbery if the victim thinks the finger is a gun. Existing laws, on the books for many years, will take care of it, not this feel-good baloney.
 
Oh Gee let me guess we need more protection supplied by our government...............GREAT! maybe what they need to do is pass a law restricting the formulation of more laws!
 
intentionally display or expose "an imitation firearm in a public place in a threatening manner

I agree with the intent of this law, but not how it will probably be written. If you are using a fake gun to intimidate, that is more serious to me than just saying intimidating words.

however, the law needs to be written so that it isn't the DISPLAY that is intentional, but the INTENT TO THEATEN

Otherwise, you could intentionally display a gun in a manner that is not intended to threaten, but yet someone could claim to still be threatened.

Think of the 'empty holster' type protests. From a distance someone could claim the holster looks like a weapon, (especailly those with a specific gunshape stamp for great fit) and be threatened. The display of the holster was intentional, even if the threat was not, so off to jail with you.

Or pulling out your new bbgun from a shopping bag to show a friend...passerby sees it, freaks, claims to be threatened, and because the display was intentional, even if the threat was not, off you go to jail
 
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