Legionnaire
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http://www.timesonline.com/site/printerFriendly.cfm?brd=2305&dept_id=478569&newsid=18726513
Fake guns pose problems for police
Kristen Garrett - Times Staff
08/19/2007
When many people think of toy guns they may remember the cap guns of their childhood.
They may even remember "A Christmas Story," in which Ralphie nearly shot his eye out with his long-desired "official Red Ryder carbine-action two-hundred shot range model air rifle."
But those are the guns of yesteryear, and new, very realistic-looking fake guns are causing very real problems on the streets.
Around 5 p.m. Aug. 9, Coraopolis police were called to the 500 block of Fifth Avenue for a report of a man showing a handgun to other people.
Police from Moon and Robinson townships were called to assist Coraopolis police. Upon arrival an officer saw a black handgun lying on the window ledge of a vacant house. Inside they found what appeared to be several more handguns and two rifles.
It turned out none of the guns were real.
Coraopolis Police Chief Alan DeRusso said one adult and three teenagers took fake guns, removed the bright orange tips that signify they are fake, and painted them black.
Compared with real duty weapons used by officers in Coraopolis, there appeared to be very little difference.
Antonio C. Burton, 21, of Coraopolis, was charged with burglary, criminal trespassing and drug paraphernalia possession in the incident.
DeRusso said to him it was obvious those involved had "bad intentions" for the guns and didn't go to so much trouble to make the guns look real "just for fun."
Serious charges
Committing a crime with a fake gun carries the same charges as if a real weapon were used, said Beaver County District Attorney Anthony J. Berosh.
"In a robbery, it is irrelevant that the gun is not a gun. The question is, did the victim think it was real," Berosh said.
Berosh gave the example that if someone reached across a counter and grabbed money, the charge would be theft. If a fake gun was used in that scenario, the charges would be robbery and assault, he said.
Instead of facing possible probation for a theft, the defendant is then facing jail time, he said.
While the robber would avoid a firearms violation with the fake gun, "what they're biting off is a lot worse, a more serious felony," Berosh said.
DeRusso and other local officers said they will absolutely charge someone as though a real gun was used in a crime, even if the gun was a fake.
Real reaction
Serious charges aren't the worst thing that could happen.
"Unfortunately for these kids, if they had pointed one of these at an officer, they were going to get shot," DeRusso said. He said police aren't going to wait around to find out if someone is pointing a real or fake gun at them.
Rochester Police Officer Sam Piccinini and Aliquippa Assistant Police Chief Andre Davis agree.
Piccinini recently had a situation where a man placed a cigarette lighter that looked like a real gun to the head of a 12-year-old girl. Though it was only a lighter, it looked very much like a real handgun, and Piccinini said he wouldn't have been able to tell the difference if it had been pointed at him from several feet away.
"We can't zoom in our vision 10 more powers to look down the barrel," Piccinini said. "If he would have pointed it at me or one of my fellow officers, we would have treated it as if it was real."
Piccinini said if a police officer is confronted by someone with a firearm, "the last thing they're thinking about is to take time to see if it's a toy, or a BB gun or real. If it appears to be a weapon they're going to treat it like a weapon and evaluate later."
"When we deal with instances of weapons we're going to treat it always like it's real," Davis said. "We would hate to have some kind of accidental shooting because of a kid pointing a fake gun at a police officer or some kind of law enforcement official."
Berosh recalled what he considers the "most notorious incident" of fake guns being mistaken for real in Beaver County. He said a resident saw several boys get out of a car behind Ambridge Area Junior High School in Economy with assault rifles and called 911.
Police responded, went into the woods, and saw the teens with what appeared to be real rifles, Berosh said. He said the teens were ordered to the ground, and it wasn't until police confiscated the weapons that they learned they were only pellet guns with the orange tips removed.
Berosh said that situation was very serious because it was on school property and involved children, and the man who made the 911 call was licensed to carry a real firearm.
Different danger
People who brandish a fake gun aren't just facing the possibility of being shot by police.
DeRusso pointed out that there are many people who have permits to carry weapons, and there are many people who carrying weapons illegally. Using a fake gun to commit a crime could mean finding yourself at the business end of a very real gun.
"If you have somebody who's just a normal civilian who believes it's a real gun, you many have somebody react and treat the situation as if it's a real gun," Piccinini said.
"Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people," Davis said. "It could be your average citizen who's actually licensed and qualified to carry a weapon for protection or for his business. You come in there with a fake gun, maybe trying to rob him or just playing around, and that person takes action. Where are we then? More than likely that person would be justified."
Berosh said that is the inherent danger with committing crimes with a fake weapon. "You may prompt a deadly response. You may be in for a whale of a surprise that could result in your death," he said.
Colors don't mean fake
Making it even more difficult for police and others to discern between real and fake firearms are real guns that look fake.
With the advancement in technology, there are real, functioning guns that are clear plastic or come in colors like blue or pink, Piccinini said.
"I could go to a real gun store right now and show you a red Glock semi-automatic handgun," he said. "It's tough to tell. Colored guns are out there."
"If the credible threat is there, the person making the treat has to be taken for his word," Piccinini said.
In regard to the fake guns, Berosh said the manufacturers' position is that the orange plug designates the gun as a toy. "You don't have to be a rocket scientist to take that off," he said.
Kristen Garrett can be reached online at [email protected].
Indistinguishable
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, in experiments conducted at the FBI facility in Quantico, Va., 89 police officers participated in a simulated confrontation with assailants armed with unmarked replica pistols and with toy guns marked in accordance with federal regulations. In daytime and nighttime scenarios, from distances of 15 and 30 feet, results showed that officers were not able to distinguish the blaze orange plug that signifies that a gun is a toy, and fired in nearly all confrontations at both distances.
"I would encourage parents to refrain from buying their kids BB guns. Why plant a seed? You don't want to plant that seed, and it starts right at home."
-- Aliquippa Assistant Police Chief Andre Davis
"The bottom line is this: You don't know what somebody's intentions are, but you definitely know what their capabilities are if the gun is real."
-- Rochester Police Officer Sam Piccinini
"Probably, from their perspective, they get to carry something that's much more intimidating. They may not have access to a real Kalashnikov. It's a cheap man's way of building up his aura or criminal nature, so to speak."
-- Beaver County District Attorney Anthony J. Berosh on criminals with fake weapons
©Beaver County Times Allegheny Times 2007
Fake guns pose problems for police
Kristen Garrett - Times Staff
08/19/2007
When many people think of toy guns they may remember the cap guns of their childhood.
They may even remember "A Christmas Story," in which Ralphie nearly shot his eye out with his long-desired "official Red Ryder carbine-action two-hundred shot range model air rifle."
But those are the guns of yesteryear, and new, very realistic-looking fake guns are causing very real problems on the streets.
Around 5 p.m. Aug. 9, Coraopolis police were called to the 500 block of Fifth Avenue for a report of a man showing a handgun to other people.
Police from Moon and Robinson townships were called to assist Coraopolis police. Upon arrival an officer saw a black handgun lying on the window ledge of a vacant house. Inside they found what appeared to be several more handguns and two rifles.
It turned out none of the guns were real.
Coraopolis Police Chief Alan DeRusso said one adult and three teenagers took fake guns, removed the bright orange tips that signify they are fake, and painted them black.
Compared with real duty weapons used by officers in Coraopolis, there appeared to be very little difference.
Antonio C. Burton, 21, of Coraopolis, was charged with burglary, criminal trespassing and drug paraphernalia possession in the incident.
DeRusso said to him it was obvious those involved had "bad intentions" for the guns and didn't go to so much trouble to make the guns look real "just for fun."
Serious charges
Committing a crime with a fake gun carries the same charges as if a real weapon were used, said Beaver County District Attorney Anthony J. Berosh.
"In a robbery, it is irrelevant that the gun is not a gun. The question is, did the victim think it was real," Berosh said.
Berosh gave the example that if someone reached across a counter and grabbed money, the charge would be theft. If a fake gun was used in that scenario, the charges would be robbery and assault, he said.
Instead of facing possible probation for a theft, the defendant is then facing jail time, he said.
While the robber would avoid a firearms violation with the fake gun, "what they're biting off is a lot worse, a more serious felony," Berosh said.
DeRusso and other local officers said they will absolutely charge someone as though a real gun was used in a crime, even if the gun was a fake.
Real reaction
Serious charges aren't the worst thing that could happen.
"Unfortunately for these kids, if they had pointed one of these at an officer, they were going to get shot," DeRusso said. He said police aren't going to wait around to find out if someone is pointing a real or fake gun at them.
Rochester Police Officer Sam Piccinini and Aliquippa Assistant Police Chief Andre Davis agree.
Piccinini recently had a situation where a man placed a cigarette lighter that looked like a real gun to the head of a 12-year-old girl. Though it was only a lighter, it looked very much like a real handgun, and Piccinini said he wouldn't have been able to tell the difference if it had been pointed at him from several feet away.
"We can't zoom in our vision 10 more powers to look down the barrel," Piccinini said. "If he would have pointed it at me or one of my fellow officers, we would have treated it as if it was real."
Piccinini said if a police officer is confronted by someone with a firearm, "the last thing they're thinking about is to take time to see if it's a toy, or a BB gun or real. If it appears to be a weapon they're going to treat it like a weapon and evaluate later."
"When we deal with instances of weapons we're going to treat it always like it's real," Davis said. "We would hate to have some kind of accidental shooting because of a kid pointing a fake gun at a police officer or some kind of law enforcement official."
Berosh recalled what he considers the "most notorious incident" of fake guns being mistaken for real in Beaver County. He said a resident saw several boys get out of a car behind Ambridge Area Junior High School in Economy with assault rifles and called 911.
Police responded, went into the woods, and saw the teens with what appeared to be real rifles, Berosh said. He said the teens were ordered to the ground, and it wasn't until police confiscated the weapons that they learned they were only pellet guns with the orange tips removed.
Berosh said that situation was very serious because it was on school property and involved children, and the man who made the 911 call was licensed to carry a real firearm.
Different danger
People who brandish a fake gun aren't just facing the possibility of being shot by police.
DeRusso pointed out that there are many people who have permits to carry weapons, and there are many people who carrying weapons illegally. Using a fake gun to commit a crime could mean finding yourself at the business end of a very real gun.
"If you have somebody who's just a normal civilian who believes it's a real gun, you many have somebody react and treat the situation as if it's a real gun," Piccinini said.
"Guns don't kill people. People with guns kill people," Davis said. "It could be your average citizen who's actually licensed and qualified to carry a weapon for protection or for his business. You come in there with a fake gun, maybe trying to rob him or just playing around, and that person takes action. Where are we then? More than likely that person would be justified."
Berosh said that is the inherent danger with committing crimes with a fake weapon. "You may prompt a deadly response. You may be in for a whale of a surprise that could result in your death," he said.
Colors don't mean fake
Making it even more difficult for police and others to discern between real and fake firearms are real guns that look fake.
With the advancement in technology, there are real, functioning guns that are clear plastic or come in colors like blue or pink, Piccinini said.
"I could go to a real gun store right now and show you a red Glock semi-automatic handgun," he said. "It's tough to tell. Colored guns are out there."
"If the credible threat is there, the person making the treat has to be taken for his word," Piccinini said.
In regard to the fake guns, Berosh said the manufacturers' position is that the orange plug designates the gun as a toy. "You don't have to be a rocket scientist to take that off," he said.
Kristen Garrett can be reached online at [email protected].
Indistinguishable
According to the U.S. Department of Justice, in experiments conducted at the FBI facility in Quantico, Va., 89 police officers participated in a simulated confrontation with assailants armed with unmarked replica pistols and with toy guns marked in accordance with federal regulations. In daytime and nighttime scenarios, from distances of 15 and 30 feet, results showed that officers were not able to distinguish the blaze orange plug that signifies that a gun is a toy, and fired in nearly all confrontations at both distances.
"I would encourage parents to refrain from buying their kids BB guns. Why plant a seed? You don't want to plant that seed, and it starts right at home."
-- Aliquippa Assistant Police Chief Andre Davis
"The bottom line is this: You don't know what somebody's intentions are, but you definitely know what their capabilities are if the gun is real."
-- Rochester Police Officer Sam Piccinini
"Probably, from their perspective, they get to carry something that's much more intimidating. They may not have access to a real Kalashnikov. It's a cheap man's way of building up his aura or criminal nature, so to speak."
-- Beaver County District Attorney Anthony J. Berosh on criminals with fake weapons
©Beaver County Times Allegheny Times 2007
) what laws might cover this, but I know on a few toy guns I've bought I've noticed ominous language saying that to remove / obscure the orange tips was a federal crime, so you might want to check into that before the next gun show 
I know there are some cool plastics out there, but rifling would not last a shot. Is he referring to clear plastic furniture on an AR or pistol? Sounds like liberal glock 7 bs.
