Gun Culture: Older generation vs. younger generation

[Blakenzy]

Funny thing is, I had a nice conversation with one of these guys earlier, talking about handloading for 30.06.

That makes me think that it was not purely discrimination due to age, or you wouldn't have had the opportunity to have a nice conversation in the first place.

When the handguns came out the attitude changed.

I can't get a clear picture of how exactly your friends were shooting. But, perhaps it was not specifically the shooting of the "highcap" handguns itself but the general demeanor they portrayed while shooting the handguns. Maybe yelling "f--- yeah! or "woohoo-ing" or appearing in some way unruly to their eyes? I don't know, you tell me, but I can say that usually anything even remotely hinting towards the potential of horseplay will get on peoples nerves at a shooting range, even if no horseplay actually occurs.

 

[GoWolfpack]

And finally, they are also aware that the high point of your day is not likely to be a really good BM.

That bears repeating.

Old people aren't all Fudds. Young people aren't all thug life wannabes. These stereotypes exist because they're reinforced more often than others. As a general rule, I avoid shooting with people who use the word "need" with reference to a gun I mention wanting. This occurs in both groups. Everybody has stuff they don't need.


People who shoot their guns as fast as they can at no particular target just to make noise are not doing it to annoy you personally. Sometimes, they're doing it for FUN!


On a related note: any modern drop-safe firearm will be perfectly safe so long as no one is handling it. Slide open, slide closed, loaded, unloaded, magazine in, magazine out, chamber flagged, holstered, cased, disassembled, or hung from the ceiling, guns are only a danger when they're being handled.

Would my P3AT be allowed at your range, since the slide does not lock back?


After I win the $170 Million Powerball, my range will have very simple rules. Like "No one handles a gun during a cease fire."

 

[jnyork]

After I win the $170 Million Powerball, my range will have very simple rules. Like "No one handles a gun during a cease fire."

Our club has that rule, strictly enforced. You would be surprised how many people get all pushed out of shape about it. Just a week or so ago, we had people downrange and a guy went to fussing with his M1A. I politely asked him to not handle it with people downrange, he barked back "what the hell is your problem, the safety is on". After several others chimed in and pointedly directed his attention to the rule, clearly posted in large print, he finally calmed down, left soon after. Probably telling everyone that will listen what a bunch of azzhats we are at that range. So be it.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Discounting the far ends of the Codger/Punk spectrum (wherein Old age prepares treachery against those energetic youths disturbing the quiet of the range)


Nobody in the world should ever be so comfortable that they don't at least size up their surroundings, and those within range when guns are involved.

Trust, but verify. That could be your future shooting-soul-mate-ammo-buddy 5 lanes over barring a short introuduction.

Or, one of "those" people who make the rest of us work so hard to make gun ownership look safe and sane.

 

[Harvey]

Regardless of age, what is the harm in abiding by stringent firearms safety at any range, informal or controlled? I'll usually bring at least three pistols and a carbine to the range (any range), but of habit more than courtesy, keep flags in the open actions of idle weapons (pistols or long guns) on the table, muzzles down range of course.

What's the harm? Just takes a second, and the weapons can be deemed safe by anybody from a mile away. So next time you're at the gun shop, grab a handful of the pretty yellow/orange/red flags, throw 'em in the bag, and use 'em.

It can be habit-forming.

 

[raz-0]

That attitude exists, as others have said, outside the shooting culture as well. I remember going to a Search and Rescue meeting once. Everyone there was nice and all, but I could still tell that they thought of me as a kid. During a conversation about backcountry first aid, I made a comment about my Wilderness First Responder training, and that seemed to change their minds a bit.

Personally, I think a lot of it has to do with self confidence: If you look like you know what you're doing, and talk and act like you belong there (Respectfully and politely, of course) people tend to treat you pretty good. Not that most of the shooters that I've met don't treat you well, but there is a noticeable difference.

Best thing you can do is to give them a run for there money on the firing line. Oh, and don't hold your gun sidewise. It ejects the brass straight up on some of them.

This works a lot, but in the the ecosystem of gun clubs, there is the unrepentant fudd.

They know what they know, and don't want to know any more, and you are an ignorant, dangerous SOB if you know any different than they do.

As for the OP, it isn't that you were young, but that you were doing things some way other than what you like. You will find 30,40,50,60 and even 70 year olds with the same problem with those guys on the range you had.

 

[Walkalong]

Just a week or so ago, we had people downrange and a guy went to fussing with his M1A. I politely asked him to not handle it with people downrange

For the first time ever, I had a fellow fire while my friend and I where still at the 25 yard mark returning to the firing line while the range was cold. No safety officers, just the three of us who acknowledged the range cold to go get targets. He got back from the 50 before we got back from the 100 yard line. Putz.

Safety safety safety......

 

[dc.fireman]

Discounting the far ends of the Codger/Punk spectrum (wherein Old age prepares treachery against those energetic youths disturbing the quiet of the range)


Nobody in the world should ever be so comfortable that they don't at least size up their surroundings, and those within range when guns are involved.

Trust, but verify. That could be your future shooting-soul-mate-ammo-buddy 5 lanes over barring a short introuduction.

Or, one of "those" people who make the rest of us work so hard to make gun ownership look safe and sane.


-Dnaltrop

Amen to that!

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

This is one of the main reasons why I don't like to go to ranges where there's other people. Generally, my best range trips are when me and a few Army buddies can head up to some public shooting land when it's still early in the morning and just do our own thing. Most my shooting is combat oriented. I shoot and move, do mag changes on the move, multiple targets, transition to pistol, etc. We generally stop doing this stuff when other people arrive because it puts us downrange. But we get a lot of dirty looks from older guys even when we're just standing on the firing line shooting like normal. I was at a public range about a month ago, zeroing my Remington 700, and I decided to do some iron sight shooting for accuracy with my AR as well. As I was setting up the AR, an older "gentleman" was leaving, gave me the meanest look I'd ever gotten and asked "what the hell you gonna hunt with that?" as he walked away. I found out later from one of the ROs that the guy had approached him and asked about me, if my AR was legal, and if he should call the police on me.

There is also the almost standard assortment of unwanted advice by those older than me whenever I am at a public range as well. Usually stuff like "you know, you'd be a lot more accurate if you sat down and rested that rifle" or "If you take 15-30 seconds between shots, your groups would tighten up" when I'm shooting pistol. It just seems a lot of the older crowd, at least at the public range I go to, have a hard to understanding that some of us shoot for reasons other that super tight groups or for leisure. To me, shooting is training. And I shoot how I will in real life. Other types of shooting like bench rest shooting just do not interest me at all. As along as I'm following the rules and the Rules, I prefer just to be left alone so I can do what I need to.

 

[huntsman]

This is not the first, nor will it be the last time myself or my gun-nut friends will be stereotyped by the older generation because of our age.

yep and guns don't have much to do with it only age. My oldest is 30 so anybody 35 or younger is just a kid don't matter what you've done or where you've been.

 

[russ69]

Owlhoot says; "......it is about everything, a complete value structure that includes manners, mores, behaviors, tastes, dress, language, you name it. So obviously, these two old boys are sitting over there quietly, firing a single shot every few minutes, having a zen moment with their rifles, and you show up and fire more rounds in a six second burst than they have fired all afternoon. See, to them you are just turning money into noise...."

I think ole Owlhoot has it about right. I often walk off the firing line when some guy is just blasting away, usually they finish fast and I can get back to shooting as they reload their bazillion magazines. I'm not old but I will give a careful look to someone that is shooting at a high rate of fire or using range practices that are contrary to my training. Slow and easy is the best way to handle yourself when on a public range. Oh, yeah one more thing, GET OFF MY GRASS! LOL.

Thanx, Russ

 

[sig220mw]

I'm 57 and have 3 kids ages 22, 20 and 17. The 2 sons 22 and 17 play video games constantly but they also go to the range with me. I've taught them about firearms safety and they seem to have paid attention. I've seen people all ages doing things against the range rules and I write it off to just plain carelessness. The instance the OP talked about seemed to me to be a non issue and the older guys sounded out of line to me.

I like the black guns and the "sporters" too.

Hey man, if your at the range shooting and your gun is pointed down range everything is fine.

By the way you said you were in the service. Thanks for your service.

 

[Jimineer]

I'm 50, just started shooting about 10 months ago (not counting growing up as a kid in the country shooting 22 rifles and shotguns. I've taken out my fair share of mean old bad cans as a kid). But I digress. If I can get one good tip out of 30 BS comments from someone younger or older, then great. I remember the good tips and forget the rest. I hadn't thought about leaving the slide locked back as an indication to others on the range the gun is "safe" although that is what I do anyway. See, learned something new tonight because some younger person passed along something an old codger said to him. Maybe it is so obvious I didn't even realize I was doing it that way for that reason - too old to remember maybe J

Actually, I am glad to see the younger generation interested in firearms and CCW and maybe carrying on a tradition. Seems like so much of what made / makes this country great is being wasted away. Don't care much for the gang banger looking types that come into the range blasting away and carrying on, but they have the right to be there and its the ROs job to make sure they are being safe. Usually these types get kicked out because they don't take the warnings serious.

But, like my dad used to say:

there is always somebody smarter, better, and badder than you,
and,
opinions are like a**holes, everyones got one and they all stink.

 

[Nushif]

Ragnar just said everything I could ... but more voluminous and clear.

 

[cchris]

Is there anyone here who, consciously or subconsciously, does NOT have a slight judgment of others when at a range? It may not be everyone, or anyone, but it's kind of hard when the kid next to me, with his shiny new 92 Inox, is holding the gun improperly - of course that passes when he politely asks us to show him how to shoot it. Or when the group of kids in all black and trenchcoats come up with a Glock and a shotgun, you try to act normal, but in all honesty, you're making a little judgment as you uneasily keep a close eye on them.

As for me, I'm in the "young" generation, at age 23. I don't talk a big game or try to educate people if they're shooting fine (the ones that are with me), but I make it a point to compliment the older fellas out there with a nice Garand or old rifle, since I'm usually dragging an old rifle that's seen some combat along myself.

I have to admit, when they see my friend and I shooting a couple of old Mausers, they usually set aside the preconceived notion that we've only learned about guns from rap music and video games, and give us some respect.

I have experienced some misunderstanding, as my friend had a custom barrel lathed for his AR, and one that was almost identical was on an older gentleman's gun at the range. I asked him what barrel he had on it, to which he responded "Bushmaster". I said "Is that the one that came on the gun, or is it an aftermarket barrel?" He responded with "No, it's .223" and gave me a look like I was a moron. Apparently, he thought I was asking if he'd switched the barrel to fire a different caliber. Set aside the fact that a trained monkey knows that switching a barrel doesn't mean you can instantly fire a .308 out of an AR-15, but this guy thought I knew nothing about guns and instantly "dumbed down" what I said and interpreted as he saw it.

 

[sidheshooter]

essayons21;

First, thank you for your service.

Second,

Now this is what bothered me. As they left, one called out the window of his car, "Be careful with those handguns, it's not like your video games, they hurt in real life."

That statement says a whole lot more about them than it does about you and your friends.

Others have already said everything I could add beyond that fact.

 

[JohnBT]

"This is not the first, nor will it be the last time myself or my gun-nut friends will be stereotyped by the older generation because of our age."

What's with "the older generation" stereotyping? You're complaining about stereotyping and then doing it yourself. People are individuals, right?

John

 

[easyg]

If you think shooting at the range amongst grumpy old men is bad, try golfing amongst them!

 

[ljnowell]

This is definately an interesting topic. Yesterday a friend of mine accompanied me to my local gun club, where I am a member. He had bought a sterling 9mm "sporter". I was wanting to get the irons sighted on my new AR15. We set up a target at 15 yards for him to shoot at, to see where the new Sterling would hit, and I put a target out on the 25 yard berm, just to see how far off the sights were. A couple older guys(55-65) came over. One of them said, "look they got the targets 10 ft away to shoot at with thier machine guns!" I told them "I'll have you know that you can move those targets out 10 more feet and I will still miss them!" We had a good laugh, and they spent the rest of the afternoon shooting with us. Turns out they were just coming down to feel us out.

What I like about the shooting sports is that you can get people from all differerent ages and social backgrounds together to have fun with something they have in common. Too often people dont take the time to reach out to others. Sometimes you can get past that stand-offish attitude and make yourself a good friend.

 

[Nushif]

One of them said, "look they got the targets 10 ft away to shoot at with thier machine guns!"

I'd prefer not to have to get that kind of crap from strangers when they're "feeling me out."
A friend of mine, for instance who knows how much I dislike rifle shooting can say stuff like that and I'd say something like "It's the only way I hit it!" ... but some random strangers? Dunno what I'd do.

 

[easyg]

Turns out they were just coming down to feel us out.

Sometimes you can get past that stand-offish attitude and make yourself a good friend.

But really, why the stand-offish attitude to begin with?

Why do guys like that think they need to open up with a smart remark to "feel" someone out?

Why not a simple "Howdy. What kind of rifle have you got there young man?" or "Zeroing her in are you?" or "Do you guys mind if we hang out here and watch for a while?"....but no, it's usually some age based snide remark from the over 60 crowd.

I never get smart remarks at the range from guys my age or younger (I'm in my mid 40's), but it's fairly common from those over 60.
I guess they call them "grumpy old men" for a reason.
You never hear the term "grumpy young men".

 

[Officers'Wife]

Usually on the public ranges, my experience has been the older generation has been helpful and polite. It's the guys about my age (23) I've had problems with the snide remarks.

 

[Nushif]

I wonder why ... hmmm ...

 

[huntsman]

You never hear the term "grumpy young men".

That’s because young men have no reason to be grumpy, everything still works like it's supposed to.

 

[Dnaltrop]

Smart remarks are often the product of nerves or social akwardness... It's hard for many people to pipe up and speak to others when everyone is Unarmed, much less with everyone in Open Carry mode.

Humor, even poorly executed and a generally good attitude are the first defenses most of us have.

Think of it this way, If every chatroom on the internet was enforced with a small gun-toting robot on your monitor, able to be ordered to attack you by anyone you've offended with a verbal spew... Instant Manners!


And I Am a very grumpy man (34 now and a good 7.0 on the Codger scale) , and have been since my body got larger than my weakened joint tissues could support in my teens. (Ehlers-Danlos Hypermobility Disorder) I'm sour as hell, but I make active efforts to keep the glass half full.

It's a question of realizing what you need to control internally to keep your best face forward.