Disdain for Younger Generations of Shooters: What's the Deal?

[Bartholomew Roberts]

Well, I just read the original post and none of the replies. One thing I encounter with some frequency when shooting is a younger guy who has an AR15 with about $100-200 of Chinese accessories attached to it shooting at the range. Not infrequently, the scope freely rotates in its mount and the mount rocks side to side. The rifle is basically worthless as anything but a potentially lethal cap gun as it has no viable sighting system to make the bullets go where aimed.

When I meet someone like that, I don't know what to think because the very idea of that is just utterly foreign to me. I can't imagine why anybody would want to own a tool that is incapable of performing at even 50% of its potential. The only logical explanation I can come up with for that is that some of the people in that situation got interested in firearms via video games and just don't know any better. However, at least some of those guys don't want to know any better.

That may not fit your situation and I don't think it fits even the majority of younger shooters; but there is no doubt that there are enough of that group out there that it isn't unusual to encounter them.

However, I don't think disdain is the right approach. We've all been young and stupid once (or still are if we are lucky). The proper approach IMO is to be friendly, and if they are interested in learning, teach them.

 

[M-Cameron]

meh....curmudgeons gonna curmudgeon.

ive found the less you care about the opinions of other people, the better off you are....

if i want to go to the range and blast off a few hundred rounds in my ARs or AKs......im doing it for fun.....not to prove my shooting prowess to anyone...so feel free to think im a yabo whos only into guns because of Call of Duty, because its really not going to impact my day at all.

like they say....water off a ducks back....

 

[xxjumbojimboxx]

LOL I'm 29. I love video games, And all of my sights sit tight.

I would like to think that if I were at the range, and I saw someone not hitting something, and they knew they weren't hitting it. that they would be open to hearing what I'm saying. Remember, its not what you say, its how you say it. If you come at them like and old coot, you'll be received as such.

lastly, Guns aren't toys! Guns aren't toys!... Are not motorcycles and cars toys? Arent we far more likely to die, or be injured with one of those? Guns ARE toys. They're the funnest toys I own.

 

[PJSprog]

OK, I'll chime in on this, as I'm fairly certain it was my post to which the OP is referring.

First, let me clear the record here. That comment was made specifically to that individual. It was not a broad brush stroke as you are insinuating. His screen name is a reference to a video game character, and he has a link in his signature line to a site that defines it exactly as such. Admittedly, I know nothing of the man on a personal level. I can only go on what he chooses to present to us here, and that is the way he chooses to present himself. Is he a responsible shooter? Maybe. The general gist of his thread doesn't indicate that, though, at least not to me. The manner in which he communicates and the image he projects are nearly a mirror image of my youngest stepson. Can you guess what his favorite pastime is? Almost everything that boy thinks he knows about cars and guns he learned from video games. I estimate that about 80% of both are wrong, in spite of efforts by myself and his mother to correct that. His flippant attitude towards firearms safety make him down-right scary with a loaded gun in his hands. His older brother, on the other hand, is the model of a safe and responsible shooter (he's also former Infantry).

I know that not every younger shooter is irresponsible like that. In my experience (I'm 49, by the way, and have never taken Geritol ), most are as eager to learn as most of us were when I was young. I hope your impression that your generation is being negatively stereotyped is based solely on your misperception of my meaning in that post. Most of the older shooters I know are more than happy to have younger shooters continuing this great tradition. Sure, there will always be the good-natured ribbing about firearms choices (read any good Glock vs 1911 threads lately? ), but don't take that as curmudgeonry. That discussion predates firearms by thousands of years.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

OK, I'll chime in on this, as I'm fairly certain it was my post to which the OP is referring.

First, let me clear the record here. That comment was made specifically to that individual. It was not a broad brush stroke as you are insinuating. His screen name is a reference to a video game character, and he has a link in his signature line to a site that defines it exactly as such. Admittedly, I know nothing of the man on a personal level. I can only go on what he chooses to present to us here, and that is the way he chooses to present himself. Is he a responsible shooter? Maybe. The general gist of his thread doesn't indicate that, though, at least not to me. The manner in which he communicates and the image he projects are nearly a mirror image of my youngest stepson. Can you guess what his favorite pastime is? Almost everything that boy thinks he knows about cars and guns he learned from video games. I estimate that about 80% of both are wrong, in spite of efforts by myself and his mother to correct that. His flippant attitude towards firearms safety make him down-right scary with a loaded gun in his hands. His older brother, on the other hand, is the model of a safe and responsible shooter (he's also former Infantry).

I know that not every younger shooter is irresponsible like that. In my experience (I'm 49, by the way, and have never taken Geritol ), most are as eager to learn as most of us were when I was young. I hope your impression that your generation is being negatively stereotyped is based solely on your misperception of my meaning in that post. Most of the older shooters I know are more than happy to have younger shooters continuing this great tradition. Sure, there will always be the good-natured ribbing about firearms choices (read any good Glock vs 1911 threads lately? ), but don't take that as curmudgeonry. That discussion predates firearms by thousands of years.

Thanks for that, but I just checked and it wasn't you that sparked this discussion.

Thanks for your input, though.

 

[oneounceload]

To wit: Someone who does not value and/or help fight for the gun rights of all shooters and for all kinds of guns. The gun owner who loves his hunting rifle or duck shotgun but denigrates "tactical," competition, self-defense and/or other shooters and does nothing to protect the right to the weapons they use.

Or turned around: Someone who does not value and/or help fight for the gun rights of all shooters for all kinds of guns. The gun owner who loves his AR or AK and Glock but denigrates hunting, target shooting, sport shooting and/or other shooters and does nothing to protect the right to the weapons they use

Sounds better that way....

 

[PJSprog]

Thanks for that, but I just checked and it wasn't you that sparked this discussion.

Thanks for your input, though.

Huh. Your response made me curious, so I did a quick search and found that the "video games" subject apparently comes up quite a bit here. Who knew. (well, I'm sure the Moderators knew)

 

[begemot93]

Stereotyping and disdain for any gun enthusiasts, whether they're Millennials, liberals, hipsters, or mime artists isn't useful. Better to focus on common ground.

 

[Fishbed77]

I tended to think the same about video games and mass shootings like you. Then, I read some of David Grossman's work. I think he may have a book on it. I know he discussed it in On Killing. I trust him and it has made me think there may be some correlation.

There is no correlation. Studies have shown again and again that those who play violent video games are less likely to commit violent crimes. This is a myth that gets propagated for the sole reason of generating stories for the media or giving politicians something to rally their ignorant electorate behind.

What hasn't been confirmed is why those who play violent video games are less likely to commit violent crimes. Is it because these games allow them to safely "blow off steam?" Perhaps it is because that folks who have the money to spend on video games tend to belong to higher socioeconomic classes and are less likely to commit violent crimes anyway.

Honestly, who cares? A lie is a lie, and it's up to the rational person to move on.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

My grandfather always said "I never discriminate against anyone. I treat absolutely everyone the same....... ROTTEN!"

 

[tarosean]

Quote:
I tended to think the same about video games and mass shootings like you. Then, I read some of David Grossman's work. I think he may have a book on it. I know he discussed it in On Killing. I trust him and it has made me think there may be some correlation.

There is no correlation. Studies have shown again and again that those who play violent video games are less likely to commit violent crimes. This is a myth that gets propagated for the sole reason of generating stories for the media or giving politicians something to rally their ignorant electorate behind.

What hasn't been confirmed is why those who play violent video games are less likely to commit violent crimes. Is it because these games allow them to safely "blow off steam?" Perhaps it is because that folks who have the money to spend on video games tend to belong to higher socioeconomic classes and are less likely to commit violent crimes anyway.

Honestly, who cares? A lie is a lie, and it's up to the rational person to move on.

Agreed... When the news broke that the Newtown, CT shooter spent hours upon hours playing video games. Everyone started pointing fingers at violent games like first person shooters, etc.

However, as usual, it came out later it was some kids Dancing game called Dance Dance Revolution. Try to find a correlation in that one...

 

[X-Rap]

Seems like video games are one of the big bones in this discussion, my personal observation coming from one who came of age with pac man and atari.
Today the games are played at home and players think they are socializing because they are talking to others through a headset, you gain few social skills or friends in that manner.
Due to the home based nature that allows continuous play people are wasting huge numbers of hours of otherwise productive time on games and someday many will wake up to understand what that loss really means in terms of relationships, productivity, physical well being.
Not all are caught up in the addiction but I doubt that many here don't know of a number of gamers that have paid a heavy price to play.
I try to look at things I devote time to and ask if upon my last breath I would wish I had another hour to give to that cause, not many things pass muster.
I guess much the same could be said about these forums we participate in.

 

[Ed Ames]

Ever use the derogatory term 'fudd' when referring to your elders?

Not in the sense you mean.

Words have meaning and Fudd doesn't refer to age. A Fudd is a Zumbo, to use another neologism.

A Fudd is someone whose concept of gun rights is limited to hunting, often specific types of hunting they are familiar with, and who ignorantly (giving the benefit of the doubt) dismisses other types of guns as unworthy of 2A protection. It doesn't matter if you are 16 or 61, if you say something like, "Nobody needs more than a 3rd magazine for hunting, so these ARs with 30 round magazines shouldn't be protected the way my over/under bird gun is", you are a Fudd.

So, have some people I describe as Fudds happened to be old? Probably. Is being old what makes someone a Fudd? Absolutely not.

 

[Tirod]

I got it as a joke. OK by me.

I find my contemporaries to be the company I can't keep. I'd rather be around those much older, or much younger.

With the older I hear values and life's lessons learned. From the younger I get enthusiasm and some fearlessness about what could go wrong. I miss naivete to some degree - because of the things that have happened that shouldn't.

But - from my contemporaries all it get is either a locker room measuring contest over life's accomplishments, or disdain that I did or didn't do as well as their expectations.

They weren't pleasant to be around in High School and still aren't. In fact I see them as being part of the current problem, not the solution like they thought they were. The Baby Boomers who had half the morals of the previous generation and who turned their back on self discipline. The got their wishes and we got what? More drugs, failing families, exponential divorce rates, and more materialism than I ever expected to see.

It's not the world I expected to grow old in and I'm not planning to be housed with them when I'm incontinent. No doubt my "physician" will keep me drugged and happy like I've seen them do to my elders - so I probably won't care anyway.

Which should highlight why some from the geriatric generation have an attitude. It's all they have to look forward to.

Maybe it'll be fixed by the time the 30 somethings get there - or maybe we'll adopt the Dutch system of selective euthanasia, keeping the health care system cost effective. It's all about the Quality of Life, ya know.

Good luck with that.

 

[GBExpat]

... So what gives? ...

Sounds to me like Much Ado.

 

[JC111]

I'm forty-seven. I can remember my grandfather (1920-2004) griping about the 'stupid kids" who only want to shoot magnum revolvers, "fancy European 9mm pistols", nickel plated Colt 45's which he described as "pimp guns" and all the "damn magnum caliber" rifles. Grandad was a big believer in his Colt Official Police, Colt Detective Special (both in 38 Special) and his 22 caliber Colt Official Police. He was also very fond of his Colt 1873 SAA 2nd Generation in 38/40. Combine those with his Remington 870 Wingmaster in 12 Gauge and his Savage 99 in 300 Savage and you had everything you needed in his opinion. However I happen to know that his father (my great-grandpa) didn't see a need for smokeless gunpowder. Black powder was more reliable and not so "fancy"

And the wheels on the bus go round and round.

 

[2ifbyC]

Ah yes, the geezer vs whippersnapper gambit. It puts a smile on my face as I flashback to my youth when distain and contempt for the older generation was commonplace.

Wear a hat? They looked hideous. I walked to school bare headed and my wet hair would freeze by the time I got there. But I looked cool.

Listen to Guy Lombardo? No way. Elvis and the Everly brothers were the rage.

Use Fitch hair oil? Not when a “little dab will do ya”.
Geritol, castor oil, Carter’s little liver pills, Alka Seltzer; all geezer supplements du jour.

Plastic guns? Not that I can remember. Most were made of steel or pot metal. My favorite was the Mattel Fanner 50 pistol that used “greenie stickem caps” and fired a plastic projectile bullet.

What has changed in 50 years? Only that the roles are reversed.

 

[oneounceload]

Honestly, who cares? A lie is a lie, and it's up to the rational person to move on

But then............

A lie told often enough becomes the truth.Vladimir Lenin

 

[Fred in Wisc]

Take a few minutes to give that young fella a hand, politely and respectfully, instead of making fun of him and you do a lot for the future of firearms enthusiasts.

I take a lot of kids shooting and hunting. It's fun to watch the type of equipment they gravitate to. I let the kids pick whatever they want to use (within reason) and last year deer hunting we had everything from an AR15 (a real short young lady who liked the light weight and adjustable stock), couple bolts and break opens, pump 20 with slugs, to the H&R 45/70 "buffalo rifle" (my niece who likes the "cowgirl guns" She says it's heavy and it recoils a lot, but it's just SO pretty).




If you see those young people at the range, say hi and reach out a little. I usually offer to let 'em shoot something cool a little, darn near no new shooters will refuse the chance to shoot a muzzle loader, tacticool 22, or a big shiny revolver. Establish that I'm not a jerk and then let them know I've been doing this a long time and I'd be glad to help out with equipment adjustments, shooting technique, or whatever. Some of them will take me up on it. It's just good community relations.

Some of my best range days I don't shoot much, but spend time introducing younger folks to the sport.

 

[Corpral_Agarn]

Sounds to me like Much Ado.

Probably true... but it has been an interesting thread for me to read.

 

[MartinS]

Without the many young gun owners we are blessed with legal guns would cease to exist.

 

[DSAPT9]

I do not know what you conceder old but I am in my late 50s so I most likely fit that description.

I do not fit the mold as I carry a Glock, own an S&W MP9, Springfield XD9 and run ARs, AKs and FALs for rifles and I only own 1 bolt action and it was my dad’s 22 that I inherited.
I have owned a number of 1911s over the years and even shot competition with them and they do nothing for me.

Before I respond to your questions I will give you some basic info on me. I work weekends at a medium size privately own sporting goods store in the gun department and we sell an average of 20 firearms a day so we see a lot of traffic. I have taught Hunter Safety so I have worked with youth from 10.5 to adults that need the course to get a hunting license. I have served in two branches of the military first the Navy and then the Army (never said I was smart).

All this does not make me an expert at anything it has just taught me to observe people and their actions and reactions.

Corpral_Agarn
It seems that playing video games as children is believed (by some) to be the cause of an inability to be responsible with firearms.
So by that logic people who played video games = not responsible with firearms.

My wife and I even before we had kids have owned every Nintendo system out there and currently own a PS3 and have played multiple first person shooter games with my boys who are now in their late 20s.

To a degree it is true and has been proven that movies and games can have an effect on people but only in a small percentage of folks will it have a true negative effect. These are the folks that cannot tell reality from a game.

Example:

When my boys where in day care Thursday was movie day and they were allowed to bring in a G rated movie for everyone to watch. Well at the time the Teen Age Mutant Ninja Turtles where the top movies and shows for the kids so several of us parents taken in the movies for them to watch.
Well it was not long after that we all got a note to stop bringing in these movies because after watching them it seems that the kids wanted to portray the turtles and tried to Ninja kick and Karate chop each other during recess. They portrayed what they seen the good guys doing.

Some of the post talked about when you where kids you played with cap guns as I did. We played cops and robbers or cowboys and Indians but why did we do this, was it because we watched Raw Hide, Gun Smoke, Dragnet or one of the other many shows on TV at the time?

So now in the gun shop I have young guys and gals that can tell me every part of every gun in Modern warfare but yet when I hand them a firearm they might sweep me several times before I stop them. Why do they sweep me, IMO no formal training! When I explain what they are doing wrong and why most seem to be willing to learn and when they have come back they do not repeat the mistake. I will give them business cards of different firearms instructors and suggest some formal training and most take me up on it.

Now on the other hand I have had old guys come that inform me that “they have been shooten for 40+ years” who sweep me and when I say something they start the riot act on how they know what they are doing and that is when
I stop them and asked them to leave as I feel they are unsafe with a firearm and a threat to my life and when they go to my boss he backs me up.

Truth be told I have more problems with the “Know it all old guys” than I do with the young ones willing to learn and who are there to ask question and not tell me how much they know.

Corpral_Agarn
Older generations have been complaining about newer generations since the beginning of time, but when it comes to the firearms community we need to be on the same team. Now more than ever.

This will never change when I was young in the early 70s the complaint was my long hair, jeans and a t-shirt and now I see many folks my age complain about tattoos and gages in the ears and so on and so on…

But I do agree that we need to stick together and realize not everyone likes the same thing I mean just read the posts on this site some like 1911s, some Glocks, some ARs and some bolt actions but they all have a common thread that links them, they are all firearms.

Young or old we all have different levels of training, different backgrounds and I have yet to meet any one that knows everything even though they think they do. So instead of us complaining about others why not try in a friendly, non threatening manner to help each other out.

Instead of point blank telling some they are wrong first ask them about their firearm to break the ice then work your way into some training hell what’s the worst that can happen you make a new friend and shooting buddy.

Whether you like ARs, bolt actions, shotguns, 1911s or Glocks we need each other if we are going to win this fight because in the end the ANTI’s want to ban them all, no questions asked.

But what do I know I am just a dumb old guy

 

[smalls]

Kinda late to the party...

You should see the way the older gentlemen look at me when I walk onto the firing line. I'm in my mid twenties, heavily tattoo'd, and generally have a "rough" look. They get quite surprised when the 1911 gets pulled from concealment for practice.

 

[Warp]

Ever use the derogatory term 'fudd' when referring to your elders?

All the people/gun people I know use the term fudd in a derogatory manner and age has absolutely nothing to do with it. The origin of course is Elmer Fudd, and we use it to describe people who are gun owners, but. They are often hunters, and probably own a shotgun (possibly a double barrel like Elmer Fudd) or maybe a bolt action rifle, but They believe in the Second Amendment but

But they also don't think anybody needs 30 rounds for home defense or 15 rounds in their carry pistol (or even need to carry a pistol at all) and understand the usefulness of/need for universal background checks or registration

That's a fudd.

Zumbo is a fudd.

 

[The Alaskan]

It was me

I'm the guy who sparked this discussion. I made the offending comment in a different thread. I also made a follow up comment there but deleted it because it was off topic (and probably over the top). I've also edited (greatly abbreviated) this response because it was somewhat malicious and you guys don't need to read what I think. This thread is more about old shooters vs new shooters and old guns vs new guns than it is about some inter-generational disagreement.

Sam1911 read and responded to my original, full length post and captured the spirit of it in one sentence, so I think I can omit much of my blathering.

BTW: to Cpl Agarn, the fact you chose THAT screen name tells me you can't be ALL bad.

However, you (Cpl Agarn, the original poster), took my comment in the wrong context. I didn't make (or at least intent to make) a comment about the younger generation of shooters; I intended to make a comment about the younger generation in its entirety. Do you see the difference?

So this current discussion, which is a nice diversion, is based somewhat on my not making myself clear. Although, it seems the group here has done well with it.

So...sorry if I've ticked everyone off, or if my comment that began your discussion was taken in the wrong context. My problem with "the next generation of shooters" (which I should probably address separately) is just part of my problem with "the next generation" as a whole.

Sorry for writing a screed.