Gun debate: How am I doing?

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natedog

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http://beta.a5ownersgroup.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3728

I started a gun picture thread on a paintball board. I mostly got positive responses (and a few people put up their pictures too), but then this came up:

you know paintballs one thing but it's kinda scary knowing ppl can get ahold of weapons like these. I mean you guys may all be gun safe but think of the countless ppl out there who aren't and have this kind of firepower just sitting around. I know this thought will keep me up at night, not sure about all of you but I'm a little freaked out about the ease of having weapons like these in a home. Oh well gotta watch "bowling for columbine" again.

I responded with:

It takes an idiot or a criminal to do harm with a gun. The gun isn't going to do anything by itself when "its just sitting around". I've had guns all my life, and come to think of it, not once have they ever jumped up and started shooting people. Golly-gee, they've never even loaded themselves!

It's not OK to ban something just because someone "might" misuse it.

When you say "weapons like these", what exactly are you talking about? Our "evil" looking guns?

To which he said:

I don't think I said the gun was going to jump up and shot someone, I just said it's scary how easily attainable automatic assualt rifles and weapons LIKE that are to get. And your not right about the idiot or criminal comment it could be a kid who doesn't know any better. I also didn't say we should ban these guns, by all means I'd rather have a responsable person owning a gun like that than the likewise, but it doesn't change the fact that weapons like the stated above are scary and could be troublesome in the wrong hands. How many paintball killings do you hear about in a year? a few maybe from accident's mostly. How many killings from guns do you hear about? too many to count. Now don't get my wrong, one of my best friends is a navy seal and has a pretty collection of guns and weapons but it doesn't make me feel any better being at his place, it actually makes me feel a bit nervous. Oh one last thing, before you critizise this posting get the facts of what I said straight.

I responded with (and have not been answered yet): --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, but you were saying that it was just scary having the guns just sitting there. Why be afraid of an inanimate object that's just "sitting around"? I was merely pointing out that guns are just that, inanimate objects.

If a parent got a hold of a gun and misused it, then it is the fault of the parents because they did not teach there kid properly.

No one is arguing that a paintball gun is more lethal than a firearm.

I'll bet my A-5 that not one of these guns shown in this thread is an "automatic assault weapon". An automatic weapon fires a continuos stream of bullets until the trigger is released or the gun runs out of ammunition. An assault weapon, by our own military's definition, is "a shoulder fired select-fire small arm chambered in an intermediate cartrigde" (paraphrase). None of these are select-fire. They are all semi-automatic, meaning the gun fires once every time the trigger is pulled.

You don't want to ban them? That's great. I'm fine with someone who would rather be defenseless, but it isn't right for you to press that belief on someone else through gun control.

I suggest you visit http://www.a-human-right.com/introduction.html . You may gleam some ensights or merely be entertained.
 
From our point of view you're doing wonderfully, but i wouldn't get your hopes up on convincing him of much-- paintballers are impossible to persuade regarding pretty much anything. Ever tried to convince a Cocker owner that Mags were just as good?
 
Looks like you're doing good to me... I wonder how long it took before he started screaming at his monitor thinking it would help.:p (btw, NICE Mini... I dunno about the quality of those, but they sure look slick)

On a side note, the guy on post #31 said:
As long as the United States is around, we'll be able to have weapons in our homes. No laws will ever be passed banning firearms.

Oh, how I wish that were a universal truth. Methinks he puts a tad too much trust in his government.
 
I started chuckling when he mentioned his friend the "seal" with his "pretty collection of guns and weapons".

I must be a minority on the internet. Just about everyone knows a SEAL but me.
 
Maybe you overreacted a bit and sounded more agressive than necessary. The guy doesnt sound like he is a serious anti-gun person, neither wants them banned, just points a serious problem about them: the gun going into the hands of an irresponsable person.

Also in the first post I dont think he says he is afraid of the gun sitting around, in sense afraid of the very object, but sitting around in the irresponsable people's hands. About the comment that he feels nervous among his friend's weapon collection, I doubt that this is because he thinks they could harm someone just like that. Maybe the reason is that people who arent used with guns have some sence of awe when they are around them, probably suggested by the movies. This is just my theory though.

In your shoes I'd try to explain that the irresponsable owners and the accidents happening are a little price to pay for the lower crime rates.
 
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Here's a thread I recently took part in at a messageboard for bass players. It turned into a gun discussion on about page 3 of the thread and that's where the link will start you. I gave some lengthy arguments to most of the dumb statements and I was trying to be gentle as there are a lot of blissninnies there. The thread eventually got closed by a mod, because at that site there's a general ban on political and religious threads except in the paid members lounge because there have been so many trolls in the past that have caused big conflicts and that board is really more about the community than hashing out issues. Anyway...here's the link if anyone's interested...feel free to use my links and arguments if you want...or not:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127524&page=3&pp=20&

BTW, I know there has been some argument here recently about whether or not the statements about crime in the UK are true or not. I based some of my arguments regarding restrictive gun laws on the following essay and the stats within:

http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/FailedExperiment.pdf

brad cook
 
<pedantic>
It's "glean some information" not "gleam some information"
</pedantic>
 
for what it's worth

The pictures you posted in that venue seem provocative to me. And I find associating pornography, even when you spell it "pr0n", with firearms offensive. Think about the mind set, dirty pictures=guns. This is not the message that we should be sending or even eluding to.

As for the responses after that, the other person didn't seem to be looking for a fight. I have to wonder if they're even serious with the Bowling for Columbine comment. I appreciate your enthusiasm and your conviction to the cause, however, a softer touch might be in order for someone like this. I'd look for common ground:

I agree that some folks should not have weapons. It makes me nervous that some people have cars and a drivers license. Guns, in and of themselves, are neither bad nor good any more than a baseball bat or a bible. What one chooses to do with it makes a huge difference.
 
And I find associating pornography, even when you spell it "pr0n", with firearms offensive. Think about the mind set, dirty pictures=guns. This is not the message that we should be sending or even eluding to.

I'm guessing you're probably a older person. Believe me, us younger folks who spend a lot of time on the Internet don't think twice about seeing something labeled "pr0n" when it's pictures of guns or cool cars or whatever. There's just no mental connection to be made. Plus, taking out the dictionary, you'll see that pornography has, as a definition: "something that excites". Well, guns excite me. ;-)
 
Well, if you feel that way about calling gun pictures "Pr0n", then how do you feel about the term "evil black rifle" or "EBR"? By your logic that means that by using "EBR" guns=evil.

How is posting gun pictures (regardless of the name) provocative? It isn't a requirement that the pictures have to be paintball related. I wasn't looking for a fight- there are a lot of gun owners on that board.
 
Treylis-
I'll be 45 next month. I've seen my share of movies and been all around the internet. The Webster Collegiate Dictionary offers these definitions:
Date: circa 1864
1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement
3 : the depiction of acts in a sensational manner so as to arouse a quick intense emotional reaction <the pornography of violence>

I wish that there was no mental connection made, but like it or not there is a social stigma attached to the word. Put up a sign that says "PORN" in your office and see how long you remain employeed.
Antigunners continue to associate big guns with small organs. Why give them more ammunition.
Yeah I'm older and as I've matured I've learned that the "In your face" approach, while fun and satisfying, is often counter productive.

Natedog-
I have something in my safe to cover "Evil", "Ugly", "Battle", and "Sniper" and I carry a gun every day.
The pose in any picture can envoke emotional responses from the viewer. Changing nothing but the angle of the and distance of a shot can make a car look cute, powerful, fast, mean, respectable, or awesome. Camera angles and background settings are used to manipulate an audience into feeling a certain way in movies and TV every day. Manipulating pictures to get the desired response is big business.
For instance, a picture of a handgun from the side or the rear has a business like feel to it. Looking down the muzzle from close up can bring up much more emotional response ranging from fear to anger by non-gun people. I don't agree with it, I just recognize it.

To bring this back to where it started, you asked how you were doing. I offered an opinion, and now an explination. If you don't think it has any merit, blow it off.

Take care.
 
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