Gun manufacturers defective guns

[Handshaker]

Several times over the years I purchased a gun that had issues, either cycling or light primer strikes. The ones that took care of it right away and paid shipping are the big manufacturers like Ruger, Smith, Kimber ect. The other companies gave me the runaround and I had to threaten with bashing them on youtube and social media to get them to do the right thing. I just had that happen with a manufacturer on a new gun that was giving some light primer strikes, they blew me off until I told them I would get on every youtube review and forum telling my bad experience. They then complied.
Why is this? Our world of doing the right thing is now gone. Which is another reason i steer clear of all these new turkish and jerkmenastan companies and others like them, that and what is the resale down the road for a gun company no one remembers. The big US companies should always have a good resale value, hopefully.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Hate to say it but it is mostly Capitalism.

Many corporations to bow to shareholders who are only interested in short term profits.

This is usually accomplished at the expense of long term company quality. It causes problems with labor, materials, logistics, and really everything that makes a manufacturer able to do business

By threatening them on social media, it gives a potential to derail those short term profits. I admit, it has become pretty cliche to take to the internet when something doesn’t go your way but sometimes it is the only recourse for the little guy.

As to little companies, getting bashed on social media could be certain death. They are trying to get a foothold in the market and may not have the resources to “make things right” yet. Of course they never should have started business if this was going to be the case.

 

[Handshaker]

I hate to do that and i hate to threaten but, I also think its far worse to not take care of a warranty for a clearly defective product that i spent many 100's of dollars on.

 

[dogtown tom]

Hate to say it but it is mostly Capitalism.

Many corporations to bow to shareholders who are only interested in short term profits.

Uh......"capitalism" applies just as equally to S&W, Ruger and Kimber as it does to every company doing business in a capitalist economic system.
It has nothing to do with customer service.

A publicly traded manufacturer like Ruger or S&W can have excellent customer service and a privately held company like Kimber or Glock can (and do) have equally excellent customer service.

 

[kwb377]

On the flip side, I can't imagine how much time and money (both in manhours and shipping) manufacturers must spend in dealing with idjits (not implying anything about the OP) with regards to warranty claims, based on some of the questions I've seen on various forums and FB gun-centric groups.

I've literally watched people push on the front door at work (it pulls to open), and spend a minute or two fighting with it...never thinking to pull on it. These same people buy guns and then think it's broken when something doesn't work.

As George Carlin once said, "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

 

[dogtown tom]

..... I just had that happen with a manufacturer on a new gun that was giving some light primer strikes, they blew me off until I told them I would get on every youtube review and forum telling my bad experience. They then complied.

Name them. It ain't illegal.

Why is this? Our world of doing the right thing is now gone. Which is another reason i steer clear of all these new turkish and jerkmenastan companies and others like them, that and what is the resale down the road for a gun company no one remembers.

If you have problems with an imported gun, you likely aren't dealing with the actual manufacturer, just the US importer. "Handshaker Firearms of Turkey" may be the actual manufacturer and a wholly seperate company "Handshaker USA" may be the importer. That importer may or may not have the ability to quickly repair guns and is focused on sales. If that gun does have a warranty it should spell out exactly what that covers as well as how to return for service.

The big US companies should always have a good resale value, hopefully.

Well, Hi Point and Heritage make a lot of guns, but I wouldn't buy one expecting that it would have good resale value based on their sales#'s.
The worst CS I've experienced was SIG ( a big US company), the best Glock (an Austrian company)

 

[Speedo66]

The worst CS I've experienced was SIG ( a big US company), the best Glock (an Austrian company)

Isn’t Sig a Swiss owned company with a US presence?

 

[Handshaker]

Name them. It ain't illegal.

I would but i have parts on the way( ya they want me to repair it!) when i know its fixed, then i will call them out, lol.
I agree they must get a lot of total idiotss, but that isn't my problem, its the cost of doing business and doesnt help my issues. I give a gun a full rundown before i claim there is an issue. Ive been collecting and shooting since i was 16, nearly 40 years so i am confident it isn't me or any lack of knowledge. A shout out to Kimber, I have a solo carry that wouldn't feed anything, last month they paid shipping and made it right, now it cycles everything. I love the ergos and feel of this gun. I am surprised how low the recoil is in such a small handgun even with +P ammo.

 

[Shanvanvocht]

Isn’t Sig a Swiss owned company with a US presence?

SIG Sauer, Inc. is an American Co;. SIG ARMS, AG is a Swiss Company; SIG Sauer, GmbH is a German firm. All are separate organizations under the ownership of L&O Holding, a German concern. Good luck sorting that out.

 

[Remington1911]

I would but i have parts on the way( ya they want me to repair it!) when i know its fixed, then i will call them out, lol.
I agree they must get a lot of total idiotss, but that isn't my problem, its the cost of doing business and doesnt help my issues. I give a gun a full rundown before i claim there is an issue. Ive been collecting and shooting since i was 16, nearly 40 years so i am confident it isn't me or any lack of knowledge. A shout out to Kimber, I have a solo carry that wouldn't feed anything, last month they paid shipping and made it right, now it cycles everything. I love the ergos and feel of this gun. I am surprised how low the recoil is in such a small handgun even with +P ammo.

Personally I would rather fix it. Shipping guns is a real pain. I had an issue with a Benelli, really the wife did. the lifter has a bit of space in front, and when you load it can and will bite your fingers if you have little fingers, like so....on a female, on a 20G shotgun. The 12 does not have the issue. There are places you can send the lifter off to that will weld an extension to then smooth it all back out, but on a brand new fairly expensive shot gun, just stuck in my craw. It also has a pretty darn stiff mag spring, again I with two busted up thumbs could feel it, but I could do it, she could not, sent to Benelli 2-3 times and they made it "better" just not good enough. Really not much they could do, it was the design of the lifter that would draw blood. She sold it and bought an SA-08 and Tristar, with some store credit left over. Could not be more happy.

I don't fault Benelli, they can't build a gun for every human on the planet, they did try.

One thing I did learn however is I will have snap caps in my pocket if I go gun shopping for an automatic again.

 

[Handshaker]

Yes Shipping guns can be a pain, but if the issue is not a replacable part like a feed ramp needs to be polished or something along those lines, it needs to go into the manufacturer. A couple years ago my 30 year old Ruger red label had an ejector issue, i had to ship it to Ruger and they fixed it, no charge, which is why i have a LOT or Rugers.

 

[maxxhavoc]

I would but i have parts on the way( ya they want me to repair it!) when i know its fixed, then i will call them out, lol.
I agree they must get a lot of total idiotss, but that isn't my problem, its the cost of doing business and doesnt help my issues. I give a gun a full rundown before i claim there is an issue. Ive been collecting and shooting since i was 16, nearly 40 years so i am confident it isn't me or any lack of knowledge. A shout out to Kimber, I have a solo carry that wouldn't feed anything, last month they paid shipping and made it right, now it cycles everything. I love the ergos and feel of this gun. I am surprised how low the recoil is in such a small handgun even with +P ammo.

Shoot that Kimber a lot and work out any bugs before the 1yr warranty runs out. They slam the door on their customer service pretty hard after that.

 

[daniel craig]

Several times over the years I purchased a gun that had issues, either cycling or light primer strikes. The ones that took care of it right away and paid shipping are the big manufacturers like Ruger, Smith, Kimber ect. The other companies gave me the runaround and I had to threaten with bashing them on youtube and social media to get them to do the right thing. I just had that happen with a manufacturer on a new gun that was giving some light primer strikes, they blew me off until I told them I would get on every youtube review and forum telling my bad experience. They then complied.
Why is this? Our world of doing the right thing is now gone. Which is another reason i steer clear of all these new turkish and jerkmenastan companies and others like them, that and what is the resale down the road for a gun company no one remembers. The big US companies should always have a good resale value, hopefully.

Two reasons mostly capitalism and profits over everything models of business, and people who abuse return systems. When I worked at a gun store a lot of what people wanted us to send guns back for I weren't actually issues they were operator error and not having broken in the gun enough. To prove it we would send it to them and the company would send it back to us with no modifications made because it was working exactly as intended. I think a lot of companies really just don't want to deal with that BS anymore.

 

[Gun4Fun90]

Isn’t Sig a Swiss owned company with a US presence?

Sig was a Swiss company that no longer makes firearms and now makes packaging materials.

There are 3 companies that make firearms under the sig name these days.

Sig Sauer inc (US company based in NH)

Sig Arms AG (a Swiss company that makes a limited number of guns)

Sig Sauer gmbh (a German company that I believe is now defunct after a bankruptcy)

All 3 are owned by a German holding company but from my understanding basically all of their current designs and production is done by the New Hampshire based Sig Sauer inc.

so it is essentially an American company owned by a German firm as far as I’m aware.

The confusing part that I don’t quite understand is the thing that triggered the German sig to go bankrupt was a lawsuit by the German government for violating German law, but it was the American company sig sauer inc selling guns perfectly legally under US law to a third country that was also not Germany that was the violation? It makes no sense to me!

 

[HighRoadRover]

Pistols and revolvers were essentially perfected over 100 years ago. Making them should be pretty easy with CNC machinery. I suspect the companies have fewer and fewer "gunsmiths" on their staffs to deal with problems as the years go by. That might be part of the problem.

I've had good luck with minor and infrequent issues from S&W, Sig, Dan Wesson, and CZ. All well-made guns, all fixed quickly. I am having an issue with a major, high-end 1911 company right now -- they are not timely, and they seem to have bolixed up the work order to replace a front sight. We'll see how it goes.

I can sympathize with the OP. We need to be persistent with C/S folks. Polite, too. But mostly persistent. That's what I intend to do with the major, high-end 1911 company that is holding my pistol hostage at the moment.

 

[.38 Special]

Poke around here a bit and you'll find examples of crummy customer service from every major brand. I myself have gone round and round with S&W, on guns that had serious and obvious problems, and never got a fair deal. I don't know if that is typical for them these days, but there you go. At least it helps keep my local gunsmiths in business.

 

[Jim Watson]

One aspect of statistical process control is that there is a level of defects you can fix on warranty cheaper than improving quality.
Plus the flaws fixed by the sucker, uh, "customer" or just ignored.

 

[Handshaker]

Shoot that Kimber a lot and work out any bugs before the 1yr warranty runs out. They slam the door on their customer service pretty hard after that.

You probably missed the post when i just bought it a month or 2 ago. It came with 3 mags from a lgs, it was 250 and in very good condition, I took a risk buying it. I doubt it was ever shot much but carried. From the looks of it, it probably didnt work right when it was purchased or the owner never tired to shoot it and just carried it or didnt know what to do with a defective gun, glad he didnt try and defend himself. I assume it was purchased several years ago. Kimber didn't give me much grief sending it back because i am sure they knew about this issues with the Solo's. Finally a deal worked in my favor, I have put it thru the paces several times at a range and never even got a hiccup with 115gr, 124gr, 147gr and plus P 124. I was looking to buy a micro 9 before i found this, i really didnt like the sharp features of the micro 9, the solo is far better in ergos for CCW.

 

[Handshaker]

I am also glad i aint the only one with gun issues, not to wish any ill will on anyone. Its completely embarrassing to fiddle with a gun at a range that wont function.
Another one to stay away from is Excel arms. I have their 22mag pistol and rifle. I would get so pissed the pistol wouldn't function it took the threatening to get them to pay to take it back and fix it, well that didn't work so good, they couldn't even fix their own gun. I threw it in the safe and another couple years went buy, i then sent it back for the 2nd time 6 months ago with shipping on me. They did get it right this time, it shoots like a dream. I do love the pistol and didn't give up on it, the rifle always worked but never again will I buy anything from Excel. It just took way too much time and effort to get them to man up and do the right thing.

 

[jmr40]

I've had a lot of issues with Ruger firearms. To their credit they have always made it right. But I don't own many Rugers anymore. I have one of their MPR AR's that has exceeded expectations and one 10/22 as it left the factory. I have a couple of others with aftermarket barrels to get decent accuracy. But while they have always made it right, I'd prefer it to be right the 1st time.

I had major issues with a 1st gen Smith Sigma. It went back to the factory 3 times before I could get a box of ammo through it. After 5 months Smith finally sent me a new 2nd gen Sigma. I traded it unfired for my 1st Glock. I understand they corrected issues with the 1st gen guns and new ones were better, but that just left a bad taste in my mouth. They did make it right, it just took a while.

I've owned 3 Bergara rifles. One of the 3 shot well. The other 2 didn't meet my accuracy requirements. I sold one pretty quickly, but really wanted to like the 2nd one so I returned it to Bergara. They tweaked a few things and returned it with a target with a .494" group. Using Federal Gold Match ammo.

I couldn't get it under 1.5" with any of my handloads even though they shot well under 1" in my other rifles. And Federal Match ammo was unobtainable at the time at any price. I decided if it wouldn't shoot my handloads to let it go.

 

[Handshaker]

I had major issues with a 1st gen Smith Sigma. It went back to the factory 3 times before I could get a box of ammo through it. After 5 months Smith finally sent me a new 2nd gen Sigma. I traded it unfired for my 1st Glock. I understand they corrected issues with the 1st gen guns and new ones were better, but that just left a bad taste in my mouth. They did make it right, it just took a while.

Oh Man, Dont mention those POS Sigma's.. I forgot what a piece O junk they were. I had one, it would shoot around corners, lol, Seriously, it would shoot a foot to the lower left and with fixed sights there was no adjusting them. I kicked it down the road a week after i bought it.

 

[Old Dog]

Gun guys are interesting.

Do folks that buy a new Samsung refrigerator and have the in-door icemaker crap out within three months get on every internet refrigerator discussion forum and complain?

If your microwave oven or blender poops the bed, do you get on applianceforum.com and vent?

If you buy a new truck and have to take it into the dealer for service three times in the first year of ownership, do you get on a big4WDtruckforum.com and b1tch?

If you buy a new LG 4K 80" OLED TV and it seems to be glitchy when you're trying to line up your streaming services, Blu-Ray player and DirectTV all in one afternoon, do you (a) call the company and get technical advice, or (b) get on bigscreentvforum.com and vent to the entire membership how troublesome your new TV is?

Do you get on forums and complain about foreign made products (i.e., Japan) and bemoan the fact that Frigidaire and Whirlpool were made in the USA by true craftsmen and union shop guys and always worked?

Why do we complain about brands? Why do we pile on when there's really nothing left to say about a product whose reputation is already trashed?

For every Kimber or Taurus or Colt owner that pop up and airs gripes about their handguns on the internet, there's probably a hundred owners of the same guns perfectly satisfied with their own, and we'll never hear from them...

The internet is interesting.

Like I mentioned, gun guys are interesting.

It's not a gun thing. It's a customer service thing that applies to any consumer product manufactured anywhere in the world. Gun guys just seem to have certain expectations and aren't afraid to vocalize their complaints.

P.S. My wife keeps asking what I'm gonna do about the malfunctioning in-door icemaker in our $3000 French Door refrigerator. I told her I'm gonna complain about it on the internet...

 

[Remington1911]

One aspect of statistical process control is that there is a level of defects you can fix on warranty cheaper than improving quality.
Plus the flaws fixed by the sucker, uh, "customer" or just ignored.

The 10-22 business model in one post.

Sorry had to. No one leaves them alone, and when I called in the lady was shocked I was going to use the factory barrel.....she even used the words, your going to keep the factory barrel. Remember it like yesterday.

Told me everything I need to know. They build them to have parts replaced right out of the box.

 

[BushMaster-15]

Yes Shipping guns can be a pain, but if the issue is not a replacable part like a feed ramp needs to be polished or something along those lines, it needs to go into the manufacturer. A couple years ago my 30 year old Ruger red label had an ejector issue, i had to ship it to Ruger and they fixed it, no charge, which is why i have a LOT or Rugers.

That's the way 99.9% of reputable firearms manufactures insist on doing business !. Having a firearm with your company's logo and name which is defective is INVITING A LAW SUIT !. In over #60 years of buying using firearms ,I've yet to have a single manufacturer refuse to fix a defect or a repeatable malfunction of their firearm . EXCEPTIONS ,ABUSE , KITGUNS or Assembling your own . Even buying AR parts ,if I suspect a defect I send it back and 100% of the time ,they either send another part or full refund .

To many manufacturers and a Bad experience ISN'T worth the chump change to a manufacturer of a single sale , for a NEGATIVE REVIEW .

 

[BreechFace]

Gun guys are interesting.

Do folks that buy a new Samsung refrigerator and have the in-door icemaker crap out within three months get on every internet refrigerator discussion forum and complain?

P.S. My wife keeps asking what I'm gonna do about the malfunctioning in-door icemaker in our $3000 French Door refrigerator. I told her I'm gonna complain about it on the internet...

You didn't get the memo that Samsung kitchen appliances suck? I thought everyone knew that...

Good TV's...very poor refridgerators.

I told/tell everyone I come to when the conversation comes around on kitchen appliances to avoid Samsung (I was burned).

But to your point the only bashing I've done on the internet about Samsung was 2 seconds ago on a gun forum...go figure.