Gun-owning family needs help keeping their kids

[AmbulanceDriver]

I know that this is a bit of a stretch as far as being gun related, but I figured it was worth a try.

You can read the details of this families story here:

http://anarchangel.blogspot.com/2008/01/weve-been-blindsided-and-we-need-help.html

This was posted over on APS, and I think the added exposure of being here on THR might help this family.

Long story short, this woman's ex-husband is making life hell for her and her family, and is trying to equate the fact that they own firearms with child abuse, drug abuse, etc. He's trying to get their case moved to a Canadian court where he hopes (at least according to their interpretation) to have the fact that they own firearms used against them in trying to gain sole custody of their children. Add to the fact that the ex-husband was abusive to her, and you've got a real winner there.

Altogether they need to raise about $30,000 in the next two weeks.

Mods, I think this is a worthy cause for THR, and would love it if this could be stickied for a few days. If people want to donate to their legal fight, there is a PayPal link (I know, I don't like PayPal either, but it certainly is easier than mailing them a check) on the right side of their page labeled "Donate".

 

[kd7nqb]

Oregon Firearms Federation may be interested in this one too, I will forward the link to them. Its not an Oregon case but they might have some connections.

 

[princewally]

There's also a paypal link at http://savethebyrnekids.blogspot.com

 

[MakAttak]

This isn't a stretch to be firearms related.

If he's trying to use firearm ownership as a means of disqualification for child custody, that's EXTREMELY important to gun owners.

On a side note, it REALLY irks me that people can use the legal system to DESTROY others in this country even if they fail to win their case!

Of all the things England has wrong about guns, they at least know in the courts, failed lawsuits should be paid by the loser...

 

[RPCVYemen]

"We've Been Blind-Sided" may not be the whole story.

Elsewhere on his blog site, Arnarchangel urinates on, shoots, burns, and blows up copies of the Koran.

He posts videos of those actions, and claims to have had a fatwah issued against him by an unspecified "european palestinian terrorist organization."

He's a part of something he calls "Team Infidel" that seems to specialize in drinking and desecrating the Koran.

I would not want him raising my kids.

My sympathies are with the birth father.

Mike

 

[mekender]

he is trying to repeatedly argue that ownership of firearms by his ex-wife and her husband constitutes a danger to his children...


that is definately gun related

 

[Zundfolge]

My sympathies are with the birth father.

Lemme think about this ... on the one hand we have Chris Byrne ... someone who's been a part of this community, TFL, the pro-gun part of the Blogesphere and RKBA movement for ages and on the other hand we have RPCVYemen ... who most of us don't know from Adam and some wife beating, anti-gun Kanuk.

hmm ... tough decision.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Lemme think about this ... on the one hand we have Chris Byrne ... someone who's been a part of this community, ...

Lemme think about this ... if he espouses a belief in the RKBA, then urinating on, shooting, blowing up, and burning the Koran are acceptable behavior?

Is that the kind of behavior you want modeled for your kids?

Mike

 

[TexasRifleman]

Sorry, I gotta go with RPCVYemen here.

Have any of you read the crap on this guys webpage?

As for needing money, he claims to have bought SEVEN computers during the holiday season as well as

Rising above the city, blocking out the noonday sun, it warps the mighty redwoods and it towers over everyone --

That right there would be our new 61" HDTV.

Sorry, I'll not be making any donations.

You can't just put the word "gun" in and all of a sudden it becomes critical to the survival of the Second Amendment.

 

[MakAttak]

I'm sorry, when did we disqualify people based on their freedom of expression.

I don't plan on urinating on, blowing up or shooting a koran, but I don't plan on trying to take someone's children away for that.

I also don't plan on urinating on, blowing up or shooting a Bible, but I also don't plan on trying to take someone's children away for that either...

Methinks a few people here might even applaud that.

 

[tallpaul]

Lemme think about this ... if he espouses a belief in the RKBA, then urinating on, shooting, blowing up, and burning the Koran are acceptable behavior?

call me dense but I see no problem here... maybe a little crude but then again if ya wanna do those things to my Bible- well one of your own then I really don't have an issue about it. My faith is in the God that is talked of in the bible - my god is not the book itself.



BTW why does the spellcheck want to capitalize the k in koran and not the b in the Bible?

 

[TexasRifleman]

BTW why does the spellcheck want to capitalize the k in koran and not the b in the bible?

Koran is the name of a specific book. The word "bible" has a generic meaning. Only when used as a complete title "The Holy Bible" does it represent the book we commonly know as "The Bible".

So, the spell checker is technically correct, there's no conspiracy

 

[AmbulanceDriver]

TXRifle. I apologize. I didn't take the time to read the rest of their blog before posting the information here. That being said, I still understand the situation they are in. The biggest problem is that while they knew this fight was coming, it was originally expected in 1-1/2 to 2 years. Instead, it's now two to four weeks. Also, from reading the rest of their blog, it appears that some of those computer purchases may be related to their work, i.e. photo/video editing, etc.

I suspect now that they know this fight is coming much sooner than they had planned, they probably regret the larger purchases they made over the Christmas season. Unfortunately, this court fight did not come with the disclaimer that "objects in the rearview mirror may be closer than they appear."

I will state that I haven't seen any of this business about them urinating on the Koran. IF they did that, I disagree with it, but it's not my place to tell them how to raise their kids. I think a large part of my motivation is also that I don't want a CANADIAN court deciding who gets to keep AMERICAN children.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I think a large part of my motivation is also that I don't want a CANADIAN court deciding who gets to keep AMERICAN children

Oh I agree with that completely.

My problem with this is that the guy hasn't really offered up as proof that any of this is actually in all these court documents, is asking for QUITE a sum of money, and has posts from one month ago about how he bought SEVEN computers and a 61 inch HDTV over the holidays.

That's hard to make into a charity case for me.

There's lots missing. How did this end up from Phoenix to San Francisco to potentially a Canadian court? What has gone on to lead up to this?

Call me fickle but I'd like to see more than one blog entry asking for 30 grand before I decide it's a worthy cause.
Adding the "gun" thing to get pro 2A people worked up? Well, maybe there's something to this, maybe not, but there's nothing there substantive in my opinion.

 

[GigaBuist]

I think a large part of my motivation is also that I don't want a CANADIAN court deciding who gets to keep AMERICAN children.

When a Canadian woman and a Canadian man have children in Canada I think it's a safe bet to say that the children are Canadian.

Maybe they're US citizens now, but I'm pretty sure they started out Canadian.

Update: I goofed. Mel is an American, the father is Canadian.

 

[fearless leader]

Quote: BTW why does the spellcheck want to capitalize the k in koran and not the b in the Bible?

It's probably made by the same P/C people who have you press 1 for English at the VETERANS Administation.

I'm wearing a gun, just to related.

 

[GigaBuist]

I will state that I haven't seen any of this business about them urinating on the Koran. IF they did that,

Right Here.

Not an overly smart thing to post online when your manager is Pakistani.

 

[RPCVYemen]

Why does the spellcheck want to capitalize the k in koran and not the b in the Bible?

People do use "bible" colloquially to refer a book that is important to someone. You could refer to a gun smithing book as your "bible" for 1911 modifications - that is probably not a proper name.

I have never heard any Moslem use "koran" colloquially in the same manner.

IF they did that, I disagree with it, but it's not my place to tell them how to raise their kids.

Unfortunately, in the case of a divorce, a judge must make that decision. He cannot just throw up his hands and say, "It's none of my business!" The parents forced custody to be the judge's business!

Judge's don't go looking for that business - the times I have spoken to judges (not many), they really hate and loathe hostile child custody cases more than any other case. But they are still required to make the decision. One of them told me that he hadn't seen a hostile custody case yet where he wasn't convinced that both parents were unfit. But no matter how much a judge might hate a custody case, he has to make a decision about custody.

All that being said, he is in most places required by law to act in the best interest of the child. A child is not a possession. You have no property rights to a child.

I'm sorry, when did we disqualify people based on their freedom of expression.

Nobody is being disqualified from anything! The judge has to chose which parent is more fit - or to hear judges tell it, which parent is less abysmally unfit.

I would not argue for denying anyone the right to carry arms for those actions, however distasteful. I would not argue the government should step in and remove children from the house based on those actions alone, however distasteful.

However, I would expect that taking those actions and posting them on the Internet might indicate something about the emotional maturity the individual involved. That seems like fair fodder for the judge's decision about which parent should have custody.

I don't plan on urinating on, blowing up or shooting a Koran, but I don't plan on trying to take someone's children away for that.

No one's children are being taken away from anyone. They are not toys, cars, or puppy dogs. They are human beings, and the parents have asked the judge to decide who will raise the children. The parents - together - forced the judge to decide who the children will live with. In most custody cases, if the parents both agree, the judge is very, very happy to remain uninvolved.

Mr. Byrne may be more innocent and lovely than Adam before the fall. But his web site could have been written by a violent drunk racist with access to weapons, and a lack of judgement in using those weapons. The "Infidel Team" page makes it sound likely that MR. Byrne and his buddies were drinking and shooting.

None of those are criminal actions.

But were I a judge, and forced by a child's parents to chose which one the child should live with, that web site would give me pause. No matter how much someone disagrees with Islam, urinating on the Koran and then posting that video on the web would raise some giant mental stability questions in my mind.

I would at the very least want some evaluations that would clear up my doubts about these issues.

Mike

 

[Beatnik]

Hm... three points here.

If I had a ton of legal bills to pay to keep my kids, you can be sure that I'd sell my guns.

If they're desperate, it's only because they can't liquidate $38k of assets in two weeks, not because they need the money. Just because you live here doesn't mean you have to handle money like an American.

Finally, if the case does get moved to Canada, so what? How come they able to keep Nam draft dodgers from us, but the threat of Canadian legal action over children is so spooky?

 

[melodybyrne]

Ambulance Driver - you're completely right in thinking that we regret our larger purchases. If we'd known that 2 weeks later we'd be scrambling to send our lawyer to the 9th Circuit, we wouldn't have bought ANYTHING.

Texas Rifleman:

My problem with this is that the guy hasn't really offered up as proof that any of this is actually in all these court documents, is asking for QUITE a sum of money, and has posts from one month ago about how he bought SEVEN computers and a 61 inch HDTV over the holidays.

First off, it's obvious that you don't read the blog, so please let me fill you in.
A large portion of these legal difficulties are listed in other posts. As for proof? We're committed to keeping the kids' privacy. I am NOT going to post anything that contains my kids' legal names and birthdates on ANY site, and all of the legal documents, links to legal documents, times, details, etc would make it possible for someone else to do so.

As for the 7 computers? We GAVE 7 computers. We bought 3, one for myself that was a smoking deal, one for the kids that was also quite a deal, and one to replace his mother's laptop which was dying, also a deal. Not exactly an expensive Christmas. Also, the TV was 1/2 price and we were replacing one that was dying. We're not that stupid with our money.

There's lots missing. How did this end up from Phoenix to San Francisco to potentially a Canadian court? What has gone on to lead up to this?

Quite a lot. 3 years of legal issues. The kids were born in Canada but are American citizens because I'm an American citizen. Technically they're dual citizens.

The father lives in Canada. I live in Phoenix. It's a jurisdictional issue, and he's trying to weasel his way into getting the U.S. to give up jurisdiction over the case.

It's an international issue, so it went to the Federal District Court, and since the judge didn't give him the ruling he wanted, he appealed to the next higher court - the U.S. Court of Appeals. We live in the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit of Appeals, which hears most of its cases in... San Francisco.

Caught up yet?

RPCVYemen:

No one's children are being taken away from anyone. They are not toys, cars, or puppy dogs. They are human beings, and the parents have asked the judge to decide who will raise the children. The parents - together - forced the judge to decide who the children will live with. In most custody cases, if the parents both agree, the judge is very, very happy to remain uninvolved.

I'd love to have been able to just compromise and agree and NEVER EVER see a courtroom. In fact, I've tried this whole negotiation thing. I'm not the one pushing this through the court system. I'm the respondent, not the petitioner. I've been forced into the position of defending myself; I heartily wish I wasn't. I only have two choices; fight, or see my kids go live with a man who abused me for 4 years.

As for all the Team Infidel stuff, if you don't get it, I won't bother trying.

As for selling the guns, we don't have that many that will a.) get us more than $100 this quickly, and b.) aren't necessary for self-defense.

As for this whole thing going to Canada, that's even more expensive than sticking it out and fighting in the U.S. It involves all new lawyers with all new retainers, weeks of work on their end catching up on everything that's happened, tons of travel back and forth... if we can't afford to keep it in the U.S. we can't afford for it to go to Canada either.

And no, we don't have enough assets to come up with $38,000. We've spent $30,000 already in the past 16 MONTHS, all out of pocket. We've literally run out of options.

Thank you for your support Ambulance Driver.

 

[CU74]

Fascinating. It appears that some folks get so wrapped up in their 1st Amendment right to express themselves that they forget that the 5th Amendment gives them the right to keep quiet and not let on that they are horses asses.

I'm helping Chris and Melody. So are a bunch of other folks who actually know a bit about them and their situation. There is no requirement here - do what you will.........

 

[ChrisByrne]

In addition to everything my wife just said, there are a couple dozen regular posters to this board who know me personally; including more than one moderator and several former moderators.

This thing has been going on for several years, and has been written about on my site before; never mind talked about with friends.

I expect you'll see some of them chime in shortly.

Oh and we didn't post this here; or any other site except mine, and the forum that I moderate. I don't know AmbulanceDriver (or anyone else who's posted in this thread so far for that matter; except Zundefolge and PrinceWally, CU74, and MAYBE GigaBuist a little bit - if he's who I think he is - , all from other blogs and forums) and didnt ask him to post this here.

Honestly., I expected that maybe we'd get a little help from a few friends, and some of my readers. I had no idea how far this would get spread. LOrd knows I'm not the worlds most likeable guy.

Thing is, this isn't about me. It's about my wife, and our kids.

Most people see that; and their response... I'm not much of one for crying, but the last two days... man it's just been overwhelming.

I don't care if you don't like me, or don't support me that's fine. Just don't go making unfounded accusations, and don't insult my wife. If you are genuinely concerned about us being scammers,fine.

I can't easily offer verifiable and detailed proof of what we've said without causing us problems legally, and without exposing my wife and kids to potential danger. Trust what people who know me, with a better reputation here than me will tell you (I used to be a member, had a couple dozen posts total and logged in so rarely my membership must've been deleted).

I think though, that no matter what proof we offered, there would be people out there saying it was a scam. We could give all the detail in the world, and they'd still be saying were were liars, or unfit, or whatever other crap they want to spew, just because it makes them feel more important.

 

[Weetabix]

The "Infidel Team" page makes it sound likely that MR. Byrne and his buddies were drinking and shooting.

I think they were engaging in hyperbole. It's a rhetorical device.

Perhaps they were letting off steam after, say, some people who revere the Koran had immolated 3,000 of their countrymen, by hurling insults in much the same vein as the "Death To America!" bandied about in so many muslim countries. It read to me as if they were venting, and they did say "craving the taste of..." rather than "besotted with..." Doesn't mean they were drunk.

Let's not read too much into that.

I've met some of those guys. They're good guys. Maybe they shot off their mouths in that post. Anyone else here ever shot off his mouth? I know I have.

Maybe we should all settle down a bit, eh?

 

[Combat Controller]

FWIW I am personally acquainted with the Byrne's, Chris for around five years, Mel for a little less. They are upstanding folks and I am personally donating $500 to them to help out. Kim duToit and a large number of folks from The Gun Thing forum also know him personally from get togethers, and we are pulling together to help out one of our members (and in this case Admins). We have done so in the past for others in need.

I ask, as a favor to the good members of this forum, to please understand that this is a hard time for the family. Again, I stress that they are good folks, even if Chris in the past has made political statements that I would have chosen another method of expressing. I also would like to point out he did it while he was single, and before Mel and the kids came into his life. As a father now, he has other considerations.

In the end, all a man has to rely on is his reputation. A number of people on the internet, and in real life, know Chris and will stand up and vouch for him. I am one of them.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this, and thank you on behalf of Chris and Mel for any donations you may make.

EDIT: as further proof, note that he uses his real name, and always has.

(this is an unsolicited post on my part BTW)

 

[Chawbaccer]

I have never met Chris or Mel in real life, but I have known Chris for several years thru another forum. He gives selflessly of his time moderating that forum and always is helpful with technical problems, plus it is well known that he is among the first to open his wallet to help another gunny out. If you can help this couple out, please do so, if you are unable to I don't think anybody will hold that against you but please don't come on here making negative comments.