Gun Purchase, Present for Wife, Legal ???

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eric.cartman

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OK,
So my Wife got a CCW few days ago. We're about to go to the range try out few different pistols.

Now, she can purchase a gun, but she also has to show proof of residency in FL, because she's not a Citizen (Green Card). We only have Cingular Wireless bills for that... FL Department of A. accepted that as a proof of residency, and issued the CWP, but the local dealer i talked to said he wan't accept it (it has to be utility bill, credit card, bank, for him at least). And the best dealer in town is closed this weekend (and he would be fine with Cingular bills, i already talked to him about that).

So, would it be illegal, if I purchased the gun, and gifted it to my wife? Private sales are legal in FL. But I would really be buying a gun FOR my wife. I don't see it as a straw purchase. Do you?
 
If you buy a gun WITH YOUR OWN MONEY (that is the standard) and give it to someone, anyone, it is not an illegal straw purchase.
 
It would seem to me that purchasing a gun for her for the purpose of circumventing the law would be a straw purchase if someone really wanted to push it.

Since private sales are legal in FL I'd just have her buy one from an individual and move on.
 
I'm not sure, but it seems that it wouldn't be to circumvent the law so much as a specific dealer's policy about proof of residence. Still, it is circumventing something and therefore is not truly a gift.

But, if you customarily buy the firearms, and they are "yours" to this point, I don't think it would be unusual for you to continue doing so, and then gift her with one.

I wish gun laws took marriages into account. Ownership gets pretty hazy in us joint-gunnut households and yet the state requires that ownership be all pinned down and clear, even for purposes of carrying in some situations. It's just silly. There oughta' be joint ownership.
 
You know... when people ask these questions, they're just leaving a record of their intent.

Dont ask these questions on a publicly accessible forum... If you need to ask someone, talk to a lawyer, where attorney-client privilege and work product confidentiality apply.
 
On the back of the 4473 there's a section that addresses the subject of gifts.

If you're using your money to buy it and she isn't prohibited from having firearms, then yes it's legal.

People guy guns as gifts all the time, there's nothing illegal about it.

Here's some links that apply.

http://www.atf.gov/forms/4473/page03.htm

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/index.htm

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=303646

Now if she asks you to purchase a firearm for her because she won't pass a check then that would be illegal. That's called a straw purchase and the person that won't pass a background check is usually compensating the person buying a gun for them in some way. Usually by giving the person money before hand or right after.

But if you're just buying it for her all on your own for Christmas or her birthday or whatever then there's nothing illegal about it just so long as she isn't prohibited from having firearms as a result of a felony conviction or as a result of a domestic violence conviction somewhere in her past. While you're there at the gun shop read the back of the sheet and it'll give you a detailed explanation of it.

I posted a copy of it above, but it's in really small print, you can still read the small print if you're patient. Alot of times the guy behind the counter will make you a copy of the bonus sheet with the rules on it that's attached to the actual 4473 form or they might give you that one as they usually just rip it off and throw it away as there's no information written by you on that part. When I used to work at a gun shop that's what we did with that part anyway as it took up space in the file drawer.
 
I'll pay with a debit card from our joint bank account
Legal???
Click to expand...
If your name is on the account then the money would be your own
Florida is a community property state so anything that's hers is your and vice versa

Only the actual buyer needs to be pinned down and you are circumventing no law
If so then the state circumvented that same law when they accepted the bills as proof of residency

All this is besides the fact that none of that has anything to do with straw purchases
If you use your own money to buy a gun then you are the actual buyer, you legally can hand it to your wife while you are still in the store if you wish to
But the shop owner would have a hissy fit
If you're using your money to buy it and she isn't prohibited from having firearms, then yes it's legal.
Click to expand...
Even if she were prohibited it would not be a straw purchase, but other laws, state and federal, may have been violated
 
joab : If your name is on the account then the money would be your own
Florida is a community property state so anything that's hers is your and vice versa

Only the actual buyer needs to be pinned down and you are circumventing no law
If so then the state circumvented that same law when they accepted the bills as proof of residency

All this is besides the fact that none of that has anything to do with straw purchases
If you use your own money to buy a gun then you are the actual buyer, you legally can hand it to your wife while you are still in the store if you wish to
But the shop owner would have a hissy fit

Even if she were prohibited it would not be a straw purchase, but other laws, state and federal, may have been violated.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_purchase

This doesn't apply to the OP as he isn't doing any of this though.
 
Wikipedia is a user supplied info board and is, as is the case here, notoriously unreliable


All you have to do is look on the back on that federal form that you fill out and sign to indicate that you fully understand and have followed the federal laws involved with purchasing a firearm, each and every time you buy a gun from a licensed dealer

The legal concept of a straw purchase is fully explained by AFT standards there
 
She's your wife. I don't see the problem. Buy the gun. Give it to her, let her use it whenever she wants, whatever. How many things do guys buy that end up becoming their wife's anyway? (cars, electronics, CDs, etc)
 
It's perfectly legal. There's no way anyone can bust you for buying a firearm for your wife unless she was a felon or something. Stop being so paranoid. Straw purchase laws are used to prevent people from buying firearms for prohibited persons.
 
I find it very funny that this is the second thread about straw purchases in a week. I started the first one so I can have a little self depreciating humor. I find it funny because all of us law abiding people are so concerned about following the law when we are not the people that would use the guns in a crime anyway. While we talk about this and that and try to do it legally gangbangers are getting guns whenever they want and they don't seem to be busted very often. This also proves that the ATF is just there to harass law abiding citizens.
 
michael-office_space.jpg


"My God, we're such nerds. Here we are, trying to look up "money laundering" in the dictionary!"
 
Unfortunately, they have nothing to lose. I imagine must of us do, so a little caution is a good thing and makes sense to us, which is why of course we all have something to lose.
 
Done!

Thanks for all the advice!

I went to the gun show yesterday, and purchased KelTec P32, ammo, pocket holster, and extra magazine. I handed it to my wife an hour later :D

No, it was not a straw purchase. It's just sad how us law abiding folks have to worry about nonsense like that. Of course she's not a prohibited person... she just got her CWP 4 days ago!!!

Anyways, she likes the gun, and I'm comforted knowing she has the means to protect herself when I'm not around.

Did I mention she already wants another gun :what: Unfortunately I didn't have additional $700 for Kahr PM9 she wants as well :D

I love my wife so very much!!!
 
Cool, I'm glad it worked out for you.

If she's anything like my wife, you have created a monster by introducing her to guns though. :D
 
congratulations ! I was at the gunshow too ! They didn't have what i wanted ! of course ! I guess I am just a little surprized that you can get a CCW and cant buy a gun ??:banghead:
 
Congrats on the purchase. Sounds great.

That in itself can pose difficulties - what if the spouse is a "prohibited person"?
Click to expand...

I meant an option for joint ownership--as exists in most states for homes, cars, virtually any property that has a document showing legal title can be titled to spouses (or in most cases, to two persons). Only a few states require that certain marital property belong to both and I'm not sure of how the techinicalities of title work.

I just think it'd be easier if our registrations (oh, sorry, "safety inspection" documents) could have both my name and my husband's on them if we so chose.
 
It's got the same explanation on there that Wikipedia does.
Click to expand...
Not even close
Straw purchase questions apply to who the actual buyer is (question 12A)
The only standard for that, as supported by 4473, is whose money is being used
(Important notice 1)

I have read that form many times and have been preaching that it should be read by every gun buyer long before you got here
 
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