Straw man Christmas present?

[Owen Sparks]

A friend was admiring my shotgun a while back and evidently went home talking about it because his wife contacted me the other day wanting to know where to buy him one just like it for Christmas.

Is that still legal?

As far as I know he has never been convicted of a felony or anything but she would still be buying it under her name and then giving it to him.

How is this different from a 'straw man' purchase?

 

[N003k]

A straw man is when someone else buys a gun THROUGH someone.

Example: A gives B $500, and tells him to buy a Glock for him.

A gift doesn't qualify, because while the purchaser isn't the end possessor, nor the intended possessor of the gun, they're the actual PURCHASER.

Example: B has $500 laying around, and knows it's A's birthday. He also know's that A want's a Glock, so he buys him one, gift wraps it, and gives it to A.

In example 1, it's A's money, and A is the intended owner of the gun, but ISN'T the one doing the 4473. In example 2 it's B's money, and he's the one doing the 4473, he just intends to give it to B after.

Short version: Legitimate gifts aren't considered straw sales.

 

[TexasRifleman]

As far as I know he has never been convicted of a felony or anything but she would still be buying it under her name and then giving it to him.

That is not a straw purchase, it's perfectly legal. She is buying the gun for HERSELF, to give to someone else. She is the end purchaser. Straw purchases are not about the end USER, but the end PURCHASER.

Straw purchases are buying a gun for someone who doesn't want to, or can't, do the paperwork directly.

 

[rule303]

N003k is correct, a person buying a firearm as a gift is the actual purchaser, so it is not a straw sale. This is addressed in the instruction forms attached to the form 4473.

 

[Bonesinium]

This is a good question to ask if you are unsure, as firearm laws and regulations can be tricky. The question has already been answered correctly. That is not a straw purchase, and is legal. The caveat is, that all other state laws must also be followed. Unfortunately there are some states, where there is more too it than just buy and gift. On the other end of the spectrum though, it is simply that easy.

 

[InkEd]

It's a gift. Plain and simple.

 

[rjrivero]

I recently gifted my father with a M1 Carbine. However, I let him fill out the 4473 and pick it up from the dealer (who happens to be a good friend of mine.) I didn't HAVE to do it that way, but my dad got to see a heck of a ww2 firearms collection as part of the deal. That was as good a present as actually giving him the M1 Carbine.

 

[TexasRifleman]

I recently gifted my father with a M1 Carbine. However, I let him fill out the 4473 and pick it up from the dealer

Did you pay for it with your money? Be careful with that one. ATF has said those are straw purchases. They have said that if you give someone a gift certificate it's fine, but paying for it makes you the purchaser, and if he filled out the 4473 claiming he was the purchaser, that's a straw purchase on his part.

 

[rjrivero]

Did you pay for it with your money? Be careful with that one. ATF has said those straw purchases. They have said that if you give someone a gift certificate it's fine, but paying for it makes you the purchaser, and if he filled out the 4473 claiming he was the purchaser, that's a straw purchase on his part.

There was no money involved. We made a trade for this rifle. No money ever exchanged hands for this. Instead of taking it into MY collection, I would rather it fill a niche in my father's.

 

[TexasRifleman]

There was no money involved. We made a trade for this rifle. No money ever exchanged hands for this.

If you traded a rifle you owned for another rifle in the store, that still makes you the purchaser, not your father. Who the end user is doesn't matter. It's dumb in cases like this, but that's the law and how ATF interprets it.

Just be very careful.

 

[rjrivero]

TexasRifleman: I completely understand where you're coming from. I will continue to be very vigilant with these kinds of transactions.

 

[langenc]

Another definition-some one buying a gun for someone else who cant buy for him/herself.

 

[dogtown tom]

langenc Another definition-some one buying a gun for someone else who cant buy for him/herself.

That definition of a "straw sale" is not accurate.
Whether the intended recepient can or cannot buy it himself is not a factor.

The Form 4473 is very clear.....

11a Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: you are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you...

 

[hermannr]

Took my wife into our LGS, and had her to look at a High Standard Trophy that was there, and asked her if that is what she wanted.

When she said yes, I told the owner I wanted to purchase it for her birthday as a gift. I have a CPL, (no wait) she does not (3 day wait) We walked out with it that day,

Gift is gift, not a straw purchase. You could even ask them to wrap it up (if they would) if you wanted to.