Gun Shop Advice Please...

[30-06 lover]

I am going to buy a USP 45 next month, and am wondering how to go about buying a gun from a shop. I have bought from stores such as Wal-Mart, Big 5, and Sports Authority (forgive me I'm poor) which the price you see is the price you pay, period. Is that the same for gun shops, or can I barter with the guy and get the price to go lower? The USP I found was 775 before tax, and that is about average I guess for my area, but if I can get it for less I sure would like to! So with shops can you get them to go lower, or is the price you see the price you pay? Thanks!!!
-Miks

 

[Mannlicher]

It never hurts to ask or try to negotiate price. Be sure you understand that different types of stores have different margins. Wally World or other big box stores pay less, and can sell for less. Mom and Pop are a little tighter on the price.
I don't think there is any standard protocol for all this though. Just use common sense, don't go in with a chip on your shoulder, and be polite and respectful.

 

[DaveTN]

I have tried it at many different shops. If I think the price is high, I will make a firm cash offer. I have had some take it, some counter offer, and some just tell me that whatever is on the gun is firm.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

If you dont use the shop often , dont think the guys going to give it to you . I really hate it when custmers come in and THINK they should get 100 bucks nocked off a gun .
Do you really think that rent is free , employees are free , lights are free, guns are free ???
How does your boss pay you ?? Give **** away ??
Most gun shop only have a 10% mark up on guns . Some are more some are less .

Over the past 5 years I have proven myself to my shop , I call it mine cause thats were I shop . I'm loyal to them . I helped them open up , paint the walls , move the safe , panel the walls etc .
Now I can walk in use tools , drink beers after hours , help sell , Hell I even have a tab ......( bad thing ) Not to mention getting an invite to the 06 Shot Show .

The best part is the 3 friends I have . Yup thats the best .....

Sorry to sound so harsh but think about it , the **** aint free .

Do your self a favor , walk in grab 2 boxes of ammo , tell them you want the HK and put the money on the table , dont ask for a break . Do this a few more times , then buy a used gun and then ask '' ya got any room to move on this '' Prove yourself to be a loyal customer . Then things start happing ...

 

[AJ Dual]

Find out the price of the gun wholesale, quantity 1, from the likes of Shotgun News, or Gun List.

Then add the price of a reasonable FFL transfer, then add in the $20 or so it'll be for UPS/FedEx next-day-air tracking & adult signature service to ship it.

If the store has a good relationship with thier distributor, their pricing is better than quantity 1 as listed in the trade rags anyway.

Add those numbers up, and that is your "reasonable offer". Lay it out politely and with no attitude, like you're asking a question.

"If this HK costs X from CDNN (for instance, just to pull a wholesaler out of a hat...), FFL transfer around here goes for $25, and it costs $25 to ship it next-day-air, would you sell it to me for X+$50?"

Most gun store staff is sick-and-tired of hearing "But, but... It only costs X on da Innernet!" You've got to demonstrate that you understand the store needs to make a profit, but you also know how to get the gun you want for wholesale through an FFL transfer, and can just go around them if they don't budge on the price either.

Of course, if the gun is priced at or better than "X + $50", just buy it, because they're competively priced already, and they've got little margin to work with already. Compliment them on the price, and tell them that it makes you want to be a repeat customer.

 

[Ala Dan]

Good post KIDGLOCK My Friend-

Many times over, a new face appears on the horizon and quickly want
too become a member of "the something for nothing crowd". They just
don't realize that FFL dealer's have too depend on sales of accessories
for a profit; as there just isn't that big a margin in firearms sales.

 

[Bobhwry]

When buying from a shop take cash and negotiate. They will usually knock some off for cash cause no credit card fees.Also if what you want, beens sitting there awhile they may bargain a little. If they are firm on price ask if they will throw in a couple boxes of ammo.

 

[mnrivrat]

As long as your polite there is no reason not to ask for a discount in my opinion.

"What's the bottom dollar on this one" is heard all the time in shops and at shows. I never took offense at anyone asking for a lower price and I don't think many took offense when I had to say I have no room to discount on that particular gun . It's how you say it that sometimes matters.

Most often I priced so that I could at least budge a few dollars and sometimes $5 or $10 goes a long way in allowing the buyer to feel he/she has bargined the price down at least a bit.

I am good friends with my local dealer and he does not bargin a nickel on new guns. He prices them where he feels he needs them to be and that's it. Sometimes he has a bit of wiggle room on a used gun. That's OK also, and he is used to politely telling customers that ask ,that his new guns have no room for discounting the price.

No reason not to ask for a discount, and no reason to take offense on either side for doing so if done with respect. IMHO

 

[30-06 lover]

I sure didn't mean to offend anyone. I am new to this and was hoping that I would get advise, not criticism. Sorry or my ignorance and I apologize if I offended anyone.
-Mike

 

[bclark1]

No, I don't think anyone should take offense to your post Mike. Now I'm going to talk out of my rear here a little and offer my sentiments.

I would shop around. I am not in any way implying any of the guys here are like that, but yes, some gun stores are looking to rip you off. My favorite store in the world is in western Wisconsin. They serve a town of five-thousand and a bunch of surrounding one-horse villages, and the nearest "big" place where there's more than 40,000 people is 50 miles away. Yet somehow, they offer the best prices on guns you can find. Usually around the going internet rate (pre-ship/transfer), sometimes lower, sometimes higher, but never that much higher. They're great people too, friendly and low-pressure, and I want them to have my business whenever they can. Skip back to Illinois. I have typically found dealers here charge (I'm estimating) about $125 more on a gun the place in WI charges $500 for. Okay, so cost of living is higher, and there's the possibility that Illinois has taxes and fees in place against guns that Wisconsin might not, although they're both governed from the big cities that hate guns so I'd be surprised if it was dramatically different. There's still no way to justify the price differential, especially when one factors in the increase in customer base. Nowhere Hardware has maybe 20,000 people to appeal to, if the small-town customers want to abandon their local business. The Chicago area has nearly ten million, city and suburbs, in a smaller geographic area. A larger proportion of people shoot in rural areas, sure, but the potential clientele in Chicago is magnitudes larger with this factored in. Granted, there's also more competition in Chicago, but the demand (at least among people who enjoy collecting guns) is highly elastic. Gun people know that when you see a gun you want at a price you can't refuse, you break out the calculator and figure out how many less showers you'd need to take to get the water bill down. We spend hours trolling the internet, and drive way out of our way to find the best deals. If someone served as a serious price leader, they'd certainly build a huge following in a big metropolitan area, and set the trend. More guns sold, more people happy, same cash flow. Requires very little math to plan.

Anyway, that's a pipe-dream, and I'll just keep buying my long guns out of state and my handguns via the internet. My point is don't get ripped off. If you like a guy, absolutely, spend a few bucks more on that relationship. Not a couple hundred a gun, but I'd say +/- 50 is negligible if you've always got a place to walk into and shoot the breeze and handle some guns to see what you like. But if the employees aren't nice people, the price better make up for it. The saying goes you can only get two of the following three: good price, good quality, good speed. I think the best thing you can do is get on your homework, and be patient so you get the price and quality you want.

 

[bpisler]

Just ask the salesman for the best price on
that pistol.

 

[2TransAms]

30-06 Lover

First of all,good call on the USP,it's a great pistol.

Second,just tell them straight up that you don't have much extra money and you'd like to keep it at $800 out the door.Let them know you'll be buying a couple boxes of ammo on top of that. The worst that can happen is that they will stay firm on the price,you buy it anyway,and set up a relationship with the shop. They may do you more favors once you're a regular.

At least at "my" shop they know me,I've bought over a dozen guns and a truckload of ammo from them in the last 4 years,so they'll knock the price down a bit for me.But not much.

BTW,one of the greatest mysteries in the shooting sports is the dealer price of firearms.

 

[BigFatKen]

So I go up to this sidewalk artist and ask how much? He says $35 for a schetch. I jump back and say that's a little steep. He says he can make it a pastel for the same price. I say "I still don't think so". He says "but that includes shipping, you don't want to carry it around Key West"

So I do it and pay $35. My buddy just got the same, but +$15 for pastel and 10 shipping.

Notice his cost is a piece of paper and one black pencil or a few pastels + shippping.

Here is where you dicker.

 

[Tejas Gunwerks]

"Just ask the salesman for the best price on
that pistol."

Since he has his price marked, why don't you give him your best offer. The art of negotiation or haggling is a lost skill. Personally I hate when a person just stands in front of me asking me to go down. I mark my price, if you want something else make an offer.

 

[Lupinus]

depends on several factors

do you shop there a lot?
does the price seem high? low? average? when compared to other shops around?
is it new or used?

Ask simply if that is the best they can do on the gun but keep in mind that you must also be reasonable with the ammount you would like to pay. And on a used gun you might have more negotiating room. Mark up on new guns is very small, like ten percent. On a used gun it can be a lot more.

 

[Cesiumsponge]

Ask or bring up counteroffers in a nice, friendly manner. Don't demand discounts like you're entitled to them.

Most local gun stores are priced competitively to survive. If you have an oddball one that seems to mark at prices higher than usual, use the Internet, pay the FFL fee to the cheapest local dealer, and the price difference and money saved on taxes could get you some ammo.

Also, if you do a package deal (firearm, ammo, cleaning supplies, tactical gear if applicable, holsters, etc), there might be more room for wiggle.

 

[gazpacho]

For most manufacturers, I find out the MSRP. 5% less is an okay price, and the dealer is making a good profit. 10% less is good price, and the dealer is making some profit. 15% less is a great price, and the dealer is covering his costs. Buy some ammo and accessories from him, cause that is where he is making his money.

If the maker is Ruger, DOUBLE those numbers.

The more honest dealers will tag the cash price on the gun with an obvious sign saying something like "prices shown reflect a 3% cash discount."

 

[jman74]

It really does, in my opinion, depend on the shop. The two local shops that I use are good examples. I buy about 7-10 guns a year from each. One I know the price is the price, and their price is usually lower than anyone else. The other shop will knock 5-10% without even having to ask. When they hand over the invoice the price is always lower than the tag.


Good luck,
Jay

 

[gunsmith]

or post a WTB here

in the handy selling forum we have here in thr land say what you Want To Buy and how much you have....who knows?

 

[desertplinker]

Yea walk in pay retail.... That's the dumbest s**t I've ever heard. I'll never do that again unless a shop proves some loyalty to me! The realities of the biz is that there are few nice guys out there. Most will try to rake you over the coals and make 100% on any trade-in type transactions. They rely on the unsuspecting customer and hate the educated consumer. Because they are selling to a captive market, they think 35% profits are fair? No thanks! That's the average.

There are of course exceptions to the rule, but they're rare. If a shop has it in stock I say go for it. Walk in with cash in hand. Don't BS around. Close the deal.

If they want to order it, negotiate over wholesale. They aren't flooring anything and will certainly take your money real quick like. A 10% profit is more than fair for something not inventoried. If they can't live with that then go through a local FFL dealer and Jerry at Ordnance Outsellers. He's a true example of someone who tries harder and always comes through. All the deals I've recieved from him have been priced right and fast!

 

[Bobhwry]

My local dealer says over 60% of his business is impulse buys.Someone wanders into the shop, sees something they gotta have and buy it.So don,t buy on impulse, the owner will sense it, and you have lost your bargaining position.

 

[KIDGLOCK]

BTW,one of the greatest mysteries in the shooting sports is the dealer price of firearms.

Not if your smart enough and know where to look ...

Yea walk in pay retail.... That's the dumbest s**t I've ever heard. I'll never do that again unless a shop proves some loyalty to me! The realities of the biz is that there are few nice guys out there. Most will try to rake you over the coals and make 100% on any trade-in type transactions. They rely on the unsuspecting customer and hate the educated consumer. Because they are selling to a captive market, they think 35% profits are fair? No thanks! That's the average.

I bet you do real well With that train of thought I hope they rake you over the coals . Your the type that thinks anything he has is worth MORE than what he paid for it . I would not move an inch on price with a person like you . The educated buyer is a pleasure to deal with , morons are not !!

 

[P0832177]

First off, over night FEDEX / UPS costs more then 25 bucks. Next, off many shops will not transfer a gun that they have in stock, and if they do the transfer price might go up my local FFL will up the fee from 25 to 50 bucks if the gun is in stock.

Buying a new gun is an adventure for sure. But, Cash is King!

SGN and GL are not wholesale prices. Most true wholesalers do not advertise prices, ie Jerry's or RSR or Bill Hicks, etc. in those rags.

You might want to look long and hard at finding a used HK USP a good place to look is HKPro.com, EE on AR15.com and here or Glocktalk.com. They can be had for hundreds less then new! Plus, the USP is great gun. Get a three day inspection, find dealer that does transfers ie look on Gunsamerica or Gunbroker for dealers that do transfers! This should save you sales tax! That adds up, too!

 

[Creeping Incrementalism]

Yea walk in pay retail.... That's the dumbest s**t I've ever heard.

That pretty much sums it up from what I've seen. List prices are sucker prices. In my area at the shops I frequent, the list price is at least 25% over the dealer price for guns, and about 100-200% for accessories. I never even both to look at sticker prices, I just ask the clerk, "How much for this?", at which point they usually knock off $100-$200, and I will sometimes haggle my way down from there if I feel like it. And then I ask for some free ammo and cleaning kits. And expect free gunsmithing if its something that only takes a couple minutes with a gunsmithing tool.

A few months ago I bought a SOCOM II for $200 off the sticker price. I stopped there (it was actually the clerk's opening offer, which was about the going amount in my area) because the shop was closing and I had to take it or come back and haggle another day. And the clerk made a comment when I came back to pick it up 10 days later about how he thought he'd "won" the haggling.

Comparing the prices I see listed on the Internet in Free America (in states with no sales tax, too!) I normally end up paying $100 more, plus 8.25% sales tax, plus $25 DROS fee.

That being said, I think the price of the gun is the cheapest thing about shooting, and a hundred bucks saved is almost irrelevant, unless you hardly ever shoot it. Ammo, other accessories (use the Internet!), and gas & wear 'n tear on your vehicle will eventually add up to much more. The only reason I haggle is because I don't like to feel like a sucker.

 

[AJ Dual]

First off, over night FEDEX / UPS costs more then 25 bucks. Next, off many shops will not transfer a gun that they have in stock, and if they do the transfer price might go up my local FFL will up the fee from 25 to 50 bucks if the gun is in stock.

Buying a new gun is an adventure for sure. But, Cash is King!

SGN and GL are not wholesale prices. Most true wholesalers do not advertise prices, ie Jerry's or RSR or Bill Hicks, etc. in those rags.

I am offering him a formula as to how to come up with an offer on a gun. Just telling someone "make an offer" is incomplete advice. People don't do that because they don't know what to offer. They're afraid of being too high, and being a "chump", or being too low, and looking like a jerk.

If FedEx/UPS insured overnight on a handgun is more than $25, fine, just plug that into the formula.

I never suggested he build in that particular shop's FFL transfer price. Just whatever one he can get. (Use Gun List or Shotgun News's websites, they have a FFL Finder by zip-code, most list thier FFL fee too...)

And I said outright that quantity one from the rags is not what the shop pays, but it's the best he can do if he dosen't go through the shop.

So my formula for making an offer, cuts to the chase, it's generaly the best price a buyer going through wholesale/mail-order/Internet can get, and it still has acceptable profit to the gun store.

You can certainly low-ball as far as you think you can get away with, but with the advent of mass merchandising, the problem is Americans outside of flea-markets and foregin vacations won't haggle, and a low opener, and a high-low bargaining strategy is going to make both parties uncomfortable, if not insulted.

Using that formula, and politely spelling it out for the shop is win-win. It shows you understand thier expenses, and it also shows you've got a reasonable expecation of being able to actualy get that price elsewhere if they don't bite, so they know it's a lost sale.

This has worked for me in the overpriced Milwaukee area shops several times.