Gun Shops

[giggitygiggity]

I recently moved locations and have been checking out gun shops in my new location. I just felt like sharing my impressions and observations. It is very interesting how much gun shops vary.

For instance, some shops are pawn and gun shops; often, but not always, the prices are average or better than average (probably because the shop pays the seller well under the actual value and is, in turn, able to pass a better deal along to a customer). The local, family-owned gun shops seem to be the most polite and accommodating. Prices seem to be higher on new guns (likely because these shops do not move as much product as big-box stores), but great deals can be found on used guns. Elitist gun shops: I've found that the bigger shops, often the ones with indoor ranges, big painted 5.11 windows, and fancy names with the word "Tactical" in them seem to have the best advertising, but awful prices; I suspect that these shops attract people who are impulse buyers or who are not willing to shop around or do not know what things are worth (most items are priced at or near MSRP). The shops are nice in the sense that they often have a lot of services (range, gun smith, new guns), but they are often plagued by fat guys who think they are Jack Bauer. I've have walked into shops in which people are super friendly: "Hi, how are you today? Can I help you with anything today? Well please let me know if I can help you with anything." On the other hand, I walked into one shop and a customer (obviously a customer who was a regular was chatting with the guy behind the counter). The guy behind the counter looked up at me, sized me up really quick, and painfully asked if I needed anything. I don't understand why Tommy Tuff Nuts feels compelled to judge or assert dominance to potential customers.

It is also amusing when I walk into certain retailers and the reps have no idea what is going on. For instance, I walked into an Academy and asked the guy about a Kimber Micro. I explained that I had read and heard from other people that the finish has issues and wears/chips easily; I asked if he had any experience with that. His reply was, "Well all guns will wear the more you use them." Thanks Einstein... I was asking whether you, as someone who works in an establishment that sells guns has experienced complaints of that pistol having finish issues. Everyone knows that the more you use something, the more, it will wear. The same rep did not know whether Academy conducted transfers nor what the price might be... seems like something that should be covered on day one for someone working behind the firearms counter.

I interacted with a Walmart employee in sporting goods who tried to tell me that the synthetic stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles have a much smoother action than the wood stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles. I just let him talk... a rifle's stock does not determine its action's smoothness.

I am also intrigued when shops try to make a quick buck off of customers. For instance, I bought a suppressor recently. One of my trustees went to a shop with one of Silencer Shop's kiosks to submit his fingerprints, etc. The shop was not the one that would be conducting the transfer so Silencer Shop allows the shop to charge up to $40 per customer for use of the kiosk. In my experience, most shops do not charge anything as use of the kiosk does not require the labor and time of their employees. In this instance, the shop wanted $40. My trustee left... $40 for the customer to push buttons and do everything himself. I could see $5 or $10 as a minor convenience charge, but $40 is ridiculous and greedy. That shop lost a potential customer by trying to make a quick $40 (and possibly more customers as I tell the story).

When I go to shops, I want to be welcome, valued, and that my patronage is important; I should not feel like the shop is doing me any favors. I want the prices to be fair. I do not want to feel like the shop is being greedy by charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc). The good thing is that there are so many options now... if a shop is not in line with what I am looking for, I'll gladly take advantage of capitalism and take my business elsewhere.

Just my thoughts. I'd love to hear your's.

 

[Hunter86004]

Watching people, on both sides of the counter, can often be quite entertaining. Not quite as entertaining as Wal Mart, but close.

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

don't understand why Tommy Tuff Nuts feels compelled to judge or assert dominance to potential customers.

Try not to take it personally.

Proprietors of small gun shops get a large number of nut jobs, lookyloos, felons, disgruntled husbands and wives......you get the idea, in the door.

They are under constant threat of robbery, and many of the people they help will walk out and buy the gun they just spent 1\2 hour explaining cheaper online.

That regular customer he was chatting with probably buys multiple guns from him and constitutes a fair percentage of his profits for the month.

Be patient and polite, ask simple questions, always try to buy a little something even if it is just a box of ammo or a holster. Pretty soon you will be on a first name basis and getting the preferred service and prices yourself.

I have used this method with much success. Most of the little gun shops in town know me by name and give me the VIP treatment even if I don't spend a ton of money in them all.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

Being nice to people is essential to success in retailing. Asking them to treat you just as well or better is not realistic and indicates that you have chosen the wrong occupation. Open a restaurant, for example, and people will stick gum on the undersides of your new tables on the first day. They will steal silverware and seasoning shakers. They will pee on the restroom walls. They will order the waitstaff around and ask for special favors and then stiff them on tips. Consider yourself lucky if they pay their checks and agree to show up clothed.

The people who run Wal-Mart have to behave better than "the people of Wal-Mart."

Local gun shop owners treated me much worse than I treated them. Now I shop online or at Gander Outdoors. Here's my tearful farewell to those who went out of business: buh-BYE.

 

[EIB0879]

Yeah, I don't go to LGSs anymore and I don't miss them.

 

[Wisco]

I could write a novel with the establishments and characters available to me locally - the tone of the novel would be mostly unflattering to the gun community, but in fairness so would most stories about most people in general in the world.

Good customer service is all but dead, but you have to realize that good customers are also mostly a thing of the past. It’s the McCulture: good enough, cheap enough, fast enough, but not usually friendly, polite.

As for Tommy Tuff Nuts, he’s everywhere. It’s no longer acceptable to punch him in the face, so he just gets to do his thing until he runs into just the right kind of element who doesn’t care. Just know, with all your heart and soul, that Tommy T is overcompensating for his lack of actual experience in all things manly and has the heart of a snowflake and would be broken down verbally in seconds like a cheap shotgun if you wanted to go there. If you want to go there, just pretend you’re Wyatt Earp in Tombstone and he’s Johnny Tyler...

 

[GEM]

The same behaviors can be seen in all kinds of retail outfits. I have had similar experiences in coin shops and specialty cheese stores. Some are sweethearts and some are orifices. There is a debate in retailing if you should treat the customer with dominance so they think they are in a 'special' place.

As far as big chains, those are usually crappy jobs and you can't expect folks to tool up with real expertise for what they are paid.

 

[JeffG]

When I go to shops, I want to be welcome, valued, and that my patronage is important; I should not feel like the shop is doing me any favors. I want the prices to be fair. I do not want to feel like the shop is being greedy by charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc). The good thing is that there are so many options now... if a shop is not in line with what I am looking for, I'll gladly take advantage of capitalism and take my business elsewhere.

Just my thoughts. I'd love to hear your's.

I agree wholeheartedly! I think that the decline in this type of experience is due to at least a couple of factors.

Employee turnover is frustrating to business owners; nobody sticks with anything anymore. More and more, young people at least in this area, are searching for employers who don't drug test.

Based on that turnover factor, employers get tired of training, screening, and spot checking employees and how they interact with customers.
Part of the whole purpose of employees is to give the owner/employer time to do other things. By default then, the owner leaves the business in the care of the employees, for weekends and evenings, for example. An easy example of how it goes, is fast food restaurants on a Sunday night. The owner went home on Friday night... Nobody working is over 21, (no leadership, no correction) the place is dirty, the trash cans are full, the floor is greasy, the employee attitude is terrible. The food is sub par and usually cold.

It seems that when the product to be sold is firearms, employees turn into a John Wayne/Bruce Lee hybrid. I think if you run into these attitudes you described whether at a LGS or a big box, the management needs feedback to correct the situation. I had a recent situation where a deaf man came to the range I instruct at. He had gone to a local range in another area, paid a high price for a Concealed carry/CCW course. He was not able to process the instructor's material, and they tossed him from the class, and refused refund.

He came to us for a solution. I know American sign language from another situation, and the owner of the range graciously offered to provide him the CCW course for free; with me instructing. It turns out he was more adept at communication than we thought, and he aced the test and qualification. Guess where he shoots now?

As for as WalMart situation, I always go there armed with all the product information I need to make the purchase; I don't count on the kid who got shifted over to the sporting goods department from bakery because someone called in sick. Just my thoughts.

 

[Swifty Morgan]

No one buys a washing machine at a mom and pop joint in 2018, but somehow we're expected to patronize little gun shops where every hour is amateur hour.

 

[EIB0879]

I agree with JeffG about getting info before you buy . There is a lot more info than thirty plus years ago because of the Internet. You just have to sift through it to seperate the wheat and chaff.

 

[George P]

I have never found pawn shops to have great deals. One used to charge new gun prices for used and MSRP+15% for new.

 

[Hunter86004]

Here's a video some of you might get a laugh out of:



And if you liked that one and are the guy behind the counter, here's another:

 

[NIGHTLORD40K]

I have never found pawn shops to have great deals. One used to charge new gun prices for used and MSRP+15% for new.

Meh, it depends.

They will put astronomical prices on the tag, but are usually very negotiable and of, course, almost all do 0% layaway. I've acquired many guns from pawnshops which would have disappeared at a gun shop long before I could afford them, but with layaway, they came home with me. Lol.

Once again, if you have a good buying history, and they already know you aren't a felon or other shady SOB, they will often cut you a MUCH better deal.

Some of my pawnshop scores include an M1903, M1 Carbine, Luger, 1967 Colt 1911, Savage 99, and my S&W 686-0.

Maybe I'm just lucky? Dunno.....

 

[dogtown tom]

It is also amusing when I walk into certain retailers and the reps have no idea what is going on. For instance, I walked into an Academy and asked the guy about a Kimber Micro. I explained that I had read and heard from other people that the finish has issues and wears/chips easily; I asked if he had any experience with that. His reply was, "Well all guns will wear the more you use them." Thanks Einstein... I was asking whether you, as someone who works in an establishment that sells guns has experienced complaints of that pistol having finish issues. Everyone knows that the more you use something, the more, it will wear. The same rep did not know whether Academy conducted transfers nor what the price might be... seems like something that should be covered on day one for someone working behind the firearms counter.

Seriously? You expect a clerk at a big box to stay up on finish issues on a pretty obscure pistol?
I do 2000+ transfers a year, maybe one in the last year and a half was a Kimber Micro. It is not a hot seller by any stretch of the imagination. His answer wasn't far from what I would have said. I DON'T KNOW is a pretty honest answer. But you already KNEW the answer.

When 99.9% of your customers are buying from you as a retail store, why the heck would they really be interested in doing transfers? The answer is.....they aren't. The last time I checked was two years ago and the three Academy stores nearest me were charging $40. That should tell you how much they want to do transfers.

I interacted with a Walmart employee in sporting goods who tried to tell me that the synthetic stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles have a much smoother action than the wood stocked Weatherby Vanguard rifles. I just let him talk... a rifle's stock does not determine its action's smoothness.

Again, seriously?
It's WalMart.
That "associate" may have been in Electronics last week, and Grocery the week before that. If you are asking gun related questions of a WalMart employee you need to rethink your gun buying practices.

I am also intrigued when shops try to make a quick buck off of customers. For instance, I bought a suppressor recently. One of my trustees went to a shop with one of Silencer Shop's kiosks to submit his fingerprints, etc. The shop was not the one that would be conducting the transfer so Silencer Shop allows the shop to charge up to $40 per customer for use of the kiosk. In my experience, most shops do not charge anything as use of the kiosk does not require the labor and time of their employees. In this instance, the shop wanted $40. My trustee left... $40 for the customer to push buttons and do everything himself. I could see $5 or $10 as a minor convenience charge, but $40 is ridiculous and greedy. That shop lost a potential customer by trying to make a quick $40 (and possibly more customers as I tell the story).

1. Kiosks ain't free. Do you work for free? I have yet to have a kiosk user do the fingerprint scan correctly by himself. They don't read the instructions, don't pay attention to the prompts and are confused about the process entirely. This requires me to assist, which I'm glad to do, but it is far from "...does not require the labor and time..." you stated.
2. Your experience is opposite of mine. All the other Powered By dealers with a kiosk in my area charge $40 for non customers. (I charge $20)
3. That shop didn't lose a customer....they never had him. Would Burger King give you a free refill on your McDonalds drink purchase?
4. Why didn't your RP go to one of the shops that doesn't charge for use of their kiosks? You seem to think they are all over.
5. Why the heck would you submit your initial Form 4 with more than one responsible person? More RP's, more time, more problems.

When I go to shops, I want to be welcome, valued, and that my patronage is important; I should not feel like the shop is doing me any favors. I want the prices to be fair. I do not want to feel like the shop is being greedy by charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc). The good thing is that there are so many options now... if a shop is not in line with what I am looking for, I'll gladly take advantage of capitalism and take my business elsewhere.

Good luck.
That's why I started this business. I was unhappy with how local gun stores and my previous kitchen table dealer were handling transfers. Ten years later, I'm averaging 2,000 transfers a year and around 200 NFA transfers or sales a year. He's out of the business.
Your comment "charging a lot for simple services (transfers, Silencer Shop kiosk use, etc)…." is interesting.
How do you know they are simple?
Have you ever been a gun dealer or managed a small business?
How much time is involved in conducting a transfer?
Do you think the five minutes it takes to fill out the Form 4473 is all the time the dealer spends on your transfer?
What's the monthly rental on a Silencer Shop kiosk?
How many transfers a month does it take to cover the insurance on the customers firearms I am possessing?
How much is insurance on a $17,000 machine gun?
What is a reasonable or in your words "fair" price for a machine gun transfer? A silencer transfer? a shotgun, rifle or handgun transfer?
Are computers, a fax machine, internet service, electricity, etc free in your new location?
It's not so simple is it?

 

[Sistema1927]

When you find a good gun shop, and develop a relationship, it is a wonderful thing.

Case in point. I just last week ordered a gun from my favorite LGS using their online Davidson's web page. I had not called them to let them know that I was doing it. I received a Fedex text that my gun had been delivered, and about a half hour later I had to pass by the store. They had not called me to let me know it was in. When I went in, the store was busy, and the owner said hi, calling me by my nickname. I pulled up a stool, and watched him and his employee working with a number of customers. About 5 minutes later, the owner handed me an iPad with my pre-filled 4473 already up. I handed the tablet back to him after answering the questions and signing the online form, and then watched them continue to wait on customers. About 2 minutes later he bought out my new gun, and I handed him my CC to pay the balance. 3 minutes later I walked out with my new gun, and they were still waiting on others. I think that we might have exchanged 20 words between us. Exactly what I want after I have developed a relationship.

 

[Steve S.]

I purchase from different sources (LGS, Box, internet, etc) with very few (if any) bad experiences associated with any one type of source. Relationships are changing, business is changing, people are changing - everything is changing. The Democrats and Republicans are all crazy; the rabid dog was shot dead and Atticus Finch died also - everyone’s attention is on their IPhone and not on driving the car. Today’s world requires the ability to emotionally numb yourself from the rapid change around you; accepting it is wise, trying to stop it impossible.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Some shops suck. Other ones don't suck. Some other shops are just less sucky.

Visit less sucky shops, and think about buying on line.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

I have yet to find a "Pawn Shop" in a good area so I have yet to go to one, so I have no idea about prices or service in those places.

As for Big Box versus LGS I mainly prefer the LGS around the Richmond area. I have bought from Cabela's but mainly the smaller local guys. Better people and great deals on used guns.

As far as buying from a range I do not. The indoor ranges around here that sell firearms are good for one thing, range time.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

I have yet to find a "Pawn Shop" in a good area so I have yet to go to one, so I have no idea about prices or service in those places.

As for Big Box versus LGS I mainly prefer the LGS around the Richmond area. I have bought from Cabela's but mainly the smaller local guys. Better people and great deals on used guns.

As far as buying from a range I do not. The indoor ranges around here that sell firearms are good for one thing, range time.

In SW Va there are some decent ones in your typical shopping areas.

In Fredericksburg there are several along route 3 in the many shopping centers. There’s also one near the Ollie’s off of RT 1.

None of those areas are bad.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

In SW Va there are some decent ones in your typical shopping areas.

In Fredericksburg there are several along route 3 in the many shopping centers. There’s also one near the Ollie’s off of RT 1.

None of those areas are bad.

While I appreciate the info I don't really go much north of Richmond. Fredericksburg is about 2hrs from where I live. And SW VA is pretty broad although I might be more apt to look into that area so long as it isn't a long drive.

 

[WestKentucky]

There's 1 about 3 miles away from home that stocks lots of immaculate collectible revolvers. Very few things in there that I would even consider, but they do gunsmith work and are pleasant enough generally. Not friendly, but pleasant. There are a bunch of small shops which are tacticool junk that I don't even bother with anymore. There is a large-ish sporting goods store at the edge of town where they pretend to be bass pro but with higher prices and a holier than thou attitude. They have a mini poodle or some such stompdog that they are more concerned with than trying to sell a Smith 586 which they are asking $799 for. I flat refuse to go back there. On the way to work though there are 2 more shops. One is a gun shop with a pawn problem, the other is one of the smallest but friendliest and most pleasant shops around. I rarely go to any of them because my will is strong, but want wants are stronger. I avoid the temptation. If I go anywhere it's the tiny shop that has cool stuff for good prices and will match or compare any advertised price you point them to. The coffee is fresh and free, and the pretty girl at the counter will take care of you if you don't disturb the baby. Said pretty girl, is also a classic gun nerd. Her husband is a lucky man.

 

[mjsdwash]

I have never found pawn shops to have great deals. One used to charge new gun prices for used and MSRP+15% for new.

there was a gunshop sharing a property line with a "pawnshop", that is a gunstore with some old chainsaws and sockets. Used and worn = new msrp. Lightly used = msrp +, new = well over msrp. The shop next door sold most everything the pawn shop had, but cheaper, and new. But someone will stumble in, and buy that Rough Rider with no finish left for $200.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

While I appreciate the info I don't really go much north of Richmond. Fredericksburg is about 2hrs from where I live. And SW VA is pretty broad although I might be more apt to look into that area so long as it isn't a long drive.

I understand. I on,y get down to Richmond ocassionally.

The parts of SW Va I’m referring to range from Roanoke, through Salem then out to Christiansburg, Blacksburg and Dublin. But that’s probably further from you than Fredericksburg

 

[hdwhit]

I don't know why people are surprised that the near-minimum wage retail clerks behind the gun counter at the big-box stores aren't gun experts with encyclopedic knowledge of the merchandise.

All I expect of the clerk in a big-box store is that he/she can: 1) get the gun that matches the serial number on the box, 2) provide me the ATF Form, 3) call in the background check, 4) find the manager to verify the paperwork, and 5) process the charge to my credit card. If they can do that and get me out of the store in under an hour, they've wildly exceeded my expectations.

 

[hdwhit]

giggitygiggity said:
"...but they are often plagued by fat guys who think they are Jack Bauer."

You don't have to be "calorically challenged" to buy into the illusion you're Jack Bauer.

Ignorance is not positively correlated to someone's BMI.

Still, I take your point that there are shops where you inevitably encounter someone who wants to talk like they were on the raid to kill bin-Laden that spends all of his time around the shop but has no visible means of support. I just try to ignore such people and let them talk on and on about whatever is crossing their mind. After all, the biblical book of Proverbs cautions us that if we rebuke a fool, he will hate us.

And I don't need to get any more death threats.