Gun show greed is great for Walmart!
- Thread starter Redlg155
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oneounceload
member
When you figure that the mark-up on new guns is small, and the dealer at a gun show is about $3-400 in the hole before he sells anything with table fees, gas, motel and food, and everyone expects them to lower the price so the buyer can feel he "got a deal", it is no wonder they start out high. As previously mentioned, it is a lot easier to come down in price than go up
OP
OP
Redlg155
Member
I think that the point missed here is not the price of the weapons, it is the obvious markup due to the upcoming election. The same show with the same dealers were offering the exact same weapon at $575 to $600 approx 2 months ago. This is of course at the same location as the show makes a routine route throughout Florida.
The SCAR 17 in FDE I purchased was at a fair price at a dealer who did some great business at the show. In fact he was still swamped with gun show customers picking up weapons at his shop 3 days later when I picked up my SCAR. (No waiting period, he just had it at the shop instead of the show as he sold his previous SCAR 17 on the first day of the show).
The SCAR 17 in FDE I purchased was at a fair price at a dealer who did some great business at the show. In fact he was still swamped with gun show customers picking up weapons at his shop 3 days later when I picked up my SCAR. (No waiting period, he just had it at the shop instead of the show as he sold his previous SCAR 17 on the first day of the show).
It will be interesting to see what impact the outcome of the election on Tuesday has at the gun show in Tulsa the following weekend. If the current office holder is reelected, it will certainly be a depressed bunch and rumors and panic will abound. If Governor Romney becomes President-Elect Romney the mood will be buoyant and ecstatic. Will we buy out of fear or happiness?? Who knows, but I always enjoy guns shows, especially the Wannenmacher show in Tulsa. Maybe I'll see ya there. I'll be wearing the DOGGONE t-shirt, my official gun show shirt.
Fishslayer
Member
I think you missed my point. In Kalifornistan there are very few (if any) Walmarts that sell any guns at all. Too many laws & paperwork for the average WM employee.
USAF_Vet
Member
I saw an episode of Family Guns, a god awful show on Discovery (I think) that follows IMA. In this particular episode, they went to a gun show and mentioned how much they had to sell just to break even. The number was stupid high, like $1600 IIRC.
In any event, I go to gun shows to find other LGS' that I did not know about before. The 'deals' are few and far between. I did buy my ATI Omni lower from a gun show. They retail online for $129, the dealer was selling his for $149. Not a huge mark up considering I'd easily eat that $20 in shipping and FFL transfer fees if I bought it online. I traded a couple items I had no use for to get his price down to $90 out the door. Sometimes you can find dealers who are more willing to haggle. His expenses probably weren't that high, considering he was a local dealer.
In any event, I go to gun shows to find other LGS' that I did not know about before. The 'deals' are few and far between. I did buy my ATI Omni lower from a gun show. They retail online for $129, the dealer was selling his for $149. Not a huge mark up considering I'd easily eat that $20 in shipping and FFL transfer fees if I bought it online. I traded a couple items I had no use for to get his price down to $90 out the door. Sometimes you can find dealers who are more willing to haggle. His expenses probably weren't that high, considering he was a local dealer.
longspurr
Member
Gun shows I went to were originally folks buying and selling used guns or other not often seen items.
Then the dealers came and wanted a piece of the action. As other folks have said, they drive to a show, pay for the table, etc. and then want retail or retail+ for their items! Many of us wish the RETAIL DEALERS would just pack up and go back to their shops. They will get no sympathy from me if they consider gun shows a hard sell for their new guns.
I like finding the bullet casters, the leather smith's, and purveyors of the odd and used.
Then the dealers came and wanted a piece of the action. As other folks have said, they drive to a show, pay for the table, etc. and then want retail or retail+ for their items! Many of us wish the RETAIL DEALERS would just pack up and go back to their shops. They will get no sympathy from me if they consider gun shows a hard sell for their new guns.
I like finding the bullet casters, the leather smith's, and purveyors of the odd and used.
ARs at Walmart... sigh...
ARs at Walmart is absolutely freaking awesome.
And you can even find quality makes there, like Colt.
That is beyond awesome.
Ask Wal-Mart for a coy of their FFL so you can do a transfer, ask them to get you a custom AR from a company like Black Rain Ordinance, or any Title II (Class 3) item, oh wait, no, no and NO!
You must have some absolutely terrible gun stores where you live. Granted there are some bad ones around me, that's why I opened one up
.The black guns have taken over the past three gun shows I have attened. I m an old timer and like finding blued steel and fine wood, but most of the stuff is ugley semi auto hand guns, rifles and shotguns. Imported military ammo is far more common than US ammo. People must be keeping fine quality firearms.
GoWolfpack
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I was young and just getting interested in guns when the 1994 AWB passed. I dragged my dad to every gun store we saw anywhere we were. I never saw an AR except at a gun show. Not at pawn shops, gun stores, sporting goods stores, not a single one anywhere except gun shows. Maybe I just wasn't hitting the right places, but we've moved from a time when it was hard to find ARs or modern military style rifles anywhere but gun shows, to having them sold at Walmart, Dick's, Gander Mtn, and Bass Pro. ARs have gone mainstream, and that's good for us, period.
I do.Ask Wal-Mart for a coy of their FFL so you can do a transfer, ask them to get you a custom AR from a company like Black Rain Ordinance, or any Title II (Class 3) item, oh wait, no, no and NO!
You must have some absolutely terrible gun stores where you live. Granted there are some bad ones around me, that's why I opened one up
beatledog7
Member
If the guy selling guns at a show has priced them at a point which prompts the OP to call him "greedy," then would that guy not also consider the OP's unwillingness to pay that price and prefer to keep his money "stingey."
Greed, or if you prefer, the motivation to make a profit (and by that I mean the maximum that can be had), is what makes the US economy work. It drives entrepreneurship, invention, innovation, etc. Without greed, there is no gun maker, no dealer, no ammo, no accessories, no pickup to drive to the show, no income for those who wish to buy stuff, no venue to host the show, and, frankly, no show at all.
I don't fault gun show sellers for posting high prices. Some are willing to haggle, but they know how much they have to make on at each show to pay for their costs and to pay themselves a nice salary. They won't usually take a loss on anything. They didn't rent space at the show to break even.
The posted price is generally the biggest number the dealer thinks he might be able to get. If he's gotten it before, he'll ask for it again. If he thinks the market is strong enough, he'll price them even higher. As long as people are willing to pay that price, it is not too high in that market. Too high for the OP maybe, but if the Dealer X price for a Gen4 Glock is $579 plus tax, you can bet he's selling them for that amount. In fact, if he brought 50 of them to a show and sold them all at $579, he should have charged $590 or $600.
So, to the OP: If you have something to sell on THR, CraigsList, or just at a drive up yard sale, you might post a price that's a bit higher than you think you can get, right? You expect the buyer to see that price and think either, "Wow, great price; I'm taking it before someone else does" or "Nice item. I wonder if he'll come down on the price." Frankly, if it's the former, your asking price was too low.
Greed, or if you prefer, the motivation to make a profit (and by that I mean the maximum that can be had), is what makes the US economy work. It drives entrepreneurship, invention, innovation, etc. Without greed, there is no gun maker, no dealer, no ammo, no accessories, no pickup to drive to the show, no income for those who wish to buy stuff, no venue to host the show, and, frankly, no show at all.
I don't fault gun show sellers for posting high prices. Some are willing to haggle, but they know how much they have to make on at each show to pay for their costs and to pay themselves a nice salary. They won't usually take a loss on anything. They didn't rent space at the show to break even.
The posted price is generally the biggest number the dealer thinks he might be able to get. If he's gotten it before, he'll ask for it again. If he thinks the market is strong enough, he'll price them even higher. As long as people are willing to pay that price, it is not too high in that market. Too high for the OP maybe, but if the Dealer X price for a Gen4 Glock is $579 plus tax, you can bet he's selling them for that amount. In fact, if he brought 50 of them to a show and sold them all at $579, he should have charged $590 or $600.
So, to the OP: If you have something to sell on THR, CraigsList, or just at a drive up yard sale, you might post a price that's a bit higher than you think you can get, right? You expect the buyer to see that price and think either, "Wow, great price; I'm taking it before someone else does" or "Nice item. I wonder if he'll come down on the price." Frankly, if it's the former, your asking price was too low.
45lcshooter
Member
I find better gun deals offline, than online. I can use the money i would waste on shipping, for dies and brass. Walmart has a good selection of guns, only if they would stray away common caliber stuff. Maybe get into reloading componets. Anywhere i can buy groceries, bullets, brass,and a new gun, will have my money. Lol
JustinJ
Member
The last two gun shows i went to, Austin and San Antonio, had quite ridiculous pricing on firearms and tons of cheap chinese knockoff lights and optics. I found a few fair deals on some reloading dies, a few mags and that was about it. I did meet a few shop owners who also do work i'm interested in so it wasn't a total bust.
Kyle M.
Member
The last gun show I went to was in dalton ohio this past feb or march. I was looking for a good deal on a used .44 mag. desert eagle new price from my lgs was $1240+ tax. Every used one I saw at that show was priced between $1500-$2000 even the beat up ones. I finally ended up finding a used one in mint condition in another local shop for $825. The thing is that I know alot of people who find amazing deals at gun shows, I've never even seen a decent price at one.
I go to the Tulsa Gunshow every spring and fall. Great shows but the prices are for the most part to high and the sellers pack out LOTS of their goods. At least there isn't that much non-firearm stuff there like there used to be in the past. As far as ammo and accessories, they sell the dickens out of it and usually run out early. Reloading supplies go fast as well. New guns don't sell as easily and some of the used don't sell either. All in all, the shows are a great way to spend a day with good entertainment.
It is very hard to find a good price at most tables. There are a couple of vendors I check regularly for limited items because they are reasonable. I find it most humorous to see a 20% price difference two aisles over. It isn't even about online, Wal-mart, or gun stores, it's about another table in shouting distance.
People don't know that because it isn't true. Buyers set the price. The seller asks a price initially, but there is no transaction until the buyer finds it reasonable and equivalent to the value they assign to the service/item. Sales, haggling, coupons, etc would never exist if the power of price was not in the hands of the buyer. It's really terrible that many consumers think they have no sway in such things.
mdauben
Member
Its true everyone wants to find some amazing deal on the gun of their dreams, but no reasonable person can really blame a seller for charging what the market will bear. I think the issue here is gun show sellers who overprice things compared to local brick and mortar guns stores. If he's selling things for more than the FLGS are, the buyers are fools for not doing any research on going prices before throwing their money away. If he's not selling things for his inflated asking price, he's either a fool for expecting to make outragous profits, or if he can't make a profit at more reasonable prices he's a fool for getting involved in a losing buisness.
JustinJ
Member
Funny thing is the dealers with jacked up prices tend to do little business and not last. The vendors i notice returning year after year are the ones with competitive prices. While their profits per sale may be lower than others they are also selling higher volume and creating customer relationships that often pay off in the future with repeat business. A vendor who sells his products well above market value is either oblivious or just hoping to capitalize on ignorant customers. Either way it is a poor business model for themselves and their customers.
beatledog7
Member
JustinJ
Member
Phrase what? If you are referring to market value i suggest start with the correct meaning. Market value is the price at which something will sell in an auction setting. Its not the price at which a small population will be duped into paying.
Sam Cade
Member
market value
n.
The amount that a seller may expect to obtain for merchandise, services, or securities in the open market.
market value
: a price at which both buyers and sellers are willing to do business : the market or current price
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