gun show "no ccw" sign ?

[texas bulldog]

i'm usually the first to argue against the often pointless or even counterproductive attempts to disarm CHL holders in various "special" places. if i had my way, there would be NO prohibited carry locations, including airports (or even airplanes), bars, schools, etc.

that said, i do see why gun shows want you to either disarm or unload. if you read through the many ND threads here on THR, you'll see that one of the most common situations leading to NDs is when there is a mix of loaded and unloaded guns in one area. when people start handling "unloaded" guns at a show, they do things like dry-fire or check out the sights. people are waving unloaded guns around every direction you look. all it takes is a minor lapse in concentration for a ND and potentially a tragedy to occur. and since this actually does happen nearly every year, i have to admit that a gun show is one place where i actually agree with forcing people to unload their weapon.

hell, if an active shooting situation developed at a gun show, how long do you think it would take before dozens of guns would get loaded to respond? it might be the safest place you can be. since ND-related deaths have occurred, and (to my knowledge) mass shootings at guns shows haven't, i think they're playing the odds appropriately...

 

[Rodentman]

I went to show yesterday looking for a holster. I didn't mind that the firearm was required to be unloaded. It was packed to gills in the bldg, shoulder to shoulder, and with many firearms moving around it could have been a dangerous situation if loaded weapons were allowed.

 

[kurtmax]

In AL:

It's not illegal to carry at a gun show specifically (it isn't a 'public gathering' despite the bs some people might tell ya). The shows I've been to have been held in publicly owned convention centers so the state preemption law prohibits them from prohibiting firearms.

The catch, I've found, is that they often have police officers asking people if they are carrying any firearms. You can't lie to police (that's illegal). They won't let you in if you are carrying, and by the time you could sue the city the show would be over. It's sort of like a catch-22.

I just unload my firearm and carry a magazine in my pocket (they don't ask if you have any ammo with it). I can cut the zip-tie and load it back up in the restroom before I leave or in the gun show if I like.

 

[mrt949]

At gun show's in FLORIDA they zip tie your gun. What a pain if your looking for oddball magazines.OR HOLSTERS :banghead:BUT IT IS THEIR PROPERTY.

 

[wyocarp]

It's no wonder we have people breathing down our necks wanting to take every gun right away from us with milktoast gun owners like many on here and those who have posted in this thread.

What makes it more dangerous to carry in a gun show? If I feel I can safely carry my weapon in a store, in my car, around my house, or any other place I choose to go during the course of a day, why would it suddenly become dangerous when I walk into a gun show?

A child was shot at one, so what. Yes, it's sad, but people are killed by accidents while hunting, while cleaning guns at home, at the range, and in numerous other events. Do we stop all of these too, because it is dangerous?

Yes, every gun ought to be treated as if loaded while attending a show. I know someone found a gun at a show recently that was loaded. But our personal guns that are being carried? NO, I will not remove them. They are as safe as they were just prior to entering the gun show.

I noticed several police officers at one of the last gun shows here in Laramie. They didn't remove their weapons upon entering. I'm sure my guns are as safe as theirs.

 

[wyocarp]

BUT IT IS THEIR PROPERTY

Ah, but it's not their property. They are typically renting a space for a "one time event" on property that it is typically legal for me to carry.

 

[divemedic]

We have this argument about once a week here. On the one hand, you have the crowd that believes that the power of a property owner to deny you your right to effective self defense is absolute, and on the other hand, you have those that believe your rights remain intact while on another's property, insofar as your rights do not infringe on someone else's rights.

The property owners then claim that they have a right to exclude anyone who does not give up his rights. This point of view would make equal opportunity, the fair housing act, building codes, fire codes, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the OSH act unconstitutional.

 

[deadin]

This point of view would make equal opportunity, the fair housing act, building codes, fire codes, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the OSH act unconstitutional.

Please provide a cite in any of these acts, codes,etc. that mentions concealed carry.

 

[Zach S]

In NC the sign is just a friendly reminder - we cant carry anywhere that admission is charged.

I've been told that some officers will hold a loaded mag for you at the door, never tested it though.

 

[TAB]

I've been to gun shows all over the US, I have yet to see a single gun show that DID NOT have a "no loaded weapons past this point" sign.

many of the posters in this thread are why there are more and more restrictions on carry. I mean ***...
"that sign has no wieght of law, so F them" If you really can't see that coming back to bite us in the ass, you need to pull your head out of yours.

as to the comments about what makes going to a gun show more dangerous compared to other places. Its very simple, there is more of a chance you will "play with" your gun at a gun show them other places. Now I know The good posters on THR would never do something like that. The fact remains that MANY people do.

You have to understand, gun shows are a biz, they are not there for your amusment, they are there to make money. All it takes is 1 law suit to increase costs to where its no longer profitable to do it or worse still its forbiden for having them either by property owners or local laws.

 

[hoji]

My favorite gun owners are the ones that will not go to a resturant,bank, or other establishment that prohibits concealed carry, but give the gun shows a pass. Not just give them a pass, but actively make excuses for why the "have" to post the no carry signs.

Gotta love em.

 

[X-Rap]

Thank you Tab, well said.

 

[wyocarp]

Thank you Hoji, very well said.

 

[X-Rap]

Lets make the case and devise the system in which we can eliminate ND's from Gun Shows.
I'll start, by saying anybody that produces a weapon from concealment or open carry in a GunShow or Shop that can't be attributed to a self defence situation looses their right to own a gun, if it NDs then 10 ys hard time.
I don't have a problem with CCW, in fact contrary to the high road I support carry in non permisive environments. I just don't like folks fiddling with their loaded guns.

 

[divemedic]

Please provide a cite in any of these acts, codes,etc. that mentions concealed carry.

My point is since the COTUS does not give a property owner the power to remove my right to carry, this power must come from statute. This is evident in the Texas 30.06 law, and others. In Florida, it is legal to carry, even on property which the owner has excluded.

many of the posters in this thread are why there are more and more restrictions on carry. I mean ***...
"that sign has no wieght of law, so F them" If you really can't see that coming back to bite us in the ass, you need to pull your head out of yours.

Under this line of reasoning, that is being willing to give up my right to self defense just because someone else does not like it, out of fear that the person may press to change the law, means that all rights are subject to negotiation and fear.

How about "if a property owner refuses to provide for my safety from crime by providing armed security because it costs too much, but at the same time, attempts to prevent me from providing for my own safety, then I will change the laws to keep him from preventing me." Which is exactly what is happening with "guns in parking lots" laws.

As far as the excuse that because a few people ignorantly mishandle firearms, so no one can have them is exactly the same logic that the Brady bunch engages in.

 

[22lr]

I dont now if someone said this already but at least at the gun show I always go to its like this. No loaded guns, of course if you have it you just unload it and they run a zip tie through it. When you come out you must either have a zip tied gun or a receipt of purchase, that way they make sure at least no dealer guns get stolen.Dont take offense, its for your own good. Just keep the mag/bullets in your other pocket (and a good knife if you need to cut the ziptie).

 

[jbnwc]

I'm new to carrying, but I've been to several gun shows and think maybe some of you are getting caught up in the legal issue. I don't personally care whether or not I can carry into a gun show. I won't carry for a couple of reasons:

1 - the politicians are just waiting for something bad to happen so they have the public support to shut down the shows.

2 - there are few places where I feel as safe as I do at a gun show. I figure at every show there are several hundred people there who would give their lives to protect me; it is the last place I need to carry.

 

[Art Eatman]

wyocarp, whether meeting place or motel room, when you rent it, it's yours. You have the legal right to set the conditions for entry.

It works the other way, as well. Say you rent a restaurant in Texas where the owner/operator has posted a 30.06 sign. Unless restricted in the contract, you can remove the 30.06 sign during the period of your rental.

It's all basically like any game: If you don't like the rules, don't play.

 

[TAB]

Under this line of reasoning, that is being willing to give up my right to self defense just because someone else does not like it, out of fear that the person may press to change the law, means that all rights are subject to negotiation and fear.

how about, if you want to go there you fallow thier rules, or you don't go there... Shocking concept I know. Every time some one says, they don't care about a sign, is one more round that will be used against us at a later date.

Its kind of funny many of those people that disreguard signs are the same ones that beat thier chest about how they jumped thru all the hoops, are good law abiding people... and got thier CCW. Bull ****. There is a name for that...hypocrisy

One day soon( might be sooner then you think) That will be used against the issuing of CCWs.

 

[flynlr]

my rule about carry is very simple . If it is legal , I carry , if it is not legal ,I don't. I don't care about what ifs ,where it's at , or how someone may feel.

 

[divemedic]

how about, if you want to go there you fallow thier rules, or you don't go there... Shocking concept I know. Every time some one says, they don't care about a sign, is one more round that will be used against us at a later date.

Its kind of funny many of those people that disreguard signs are the same ones that beat thier chest about how they jumped thru all the hoops, are good law abiding people... and got thier CCW. Bull ****. There is a name for that...hypocrisy

I will carry as long as it is within my legal rights to do so. I don't care what the owner of the property thinks, just like he doesn't care if I get shot or not, because he will claim he is not responsible for what criminals do.

How is that hypocrisy? In my state, it is not illegal for me to carry in an establishment against the owner's wishes. I am still law abiding.

As far as gun shows being safe:

http://www.clickorlando.com/weather/10402661/detail.html

 

[Zach S]

My favorite gun owners are the ones that will not go to a resturant,bank, or other establishment that prohibits concealed carry, but give the gun shows a pass. Not just give them a pass, but actively make excuses for why the "have" to post the no carry signs.

Gotta love em.

I quit going to gun shows years ago. No need for Nazi memorabilia, beeny babies, or well used surplus that cost more than unissued surplus. I have no interest in collectable firearms either.

I could probably count the number of gunshows I've been to on one hand, and all were before I ever CCed. If it didnt look so much like the flea market, I wouldn't have quit going.

 

[kurtmax]

wyocarp, whether meeting place or motel room, when you rent it, it's yours. You have the legal right to set the conditions for entry.

I agree. However, in most places if you rent government property, you cannot make your own rules that violate state laws about government property. This means that i most states with preemption laws, you can still legally carry at a gun show regardless of the renter's rules (most convention centers are public property).

If the local govt. could bypass firearm laws by renting out property, they'd just rent it out all of their property to some person that didn't like firearms 100% of the time.

 

[wyocarp]

wyocarp, whether meeting place or motel room, when you rent it, it's yours. You have the legal right to set the conditions for entry.

It works the other way, as well. Say you rent a restaurant in Texas where the owner/operator has posted a 30.06 sign. Unless restricted in the contract, you can remove the 30.06 sign during the period of your rental.

It's all basically like any game: If you don't like the rules, don't play.

Art, I don't agree. Say you rent a restaurant in Wyoming where the owner/operator has posted a no firearms sign. Unless that restaurant is in the courthouse, post office, police station, or in a school, that sign doesn't mean a thing except that it is against Wyoming statute. You can do whatever you would like with the sign as long as you don't try to enforce it.

I had a police chief tell me about his town's law against open carry here in Wyoming this past fall. In short, he no longer feels this way.

 

[Art Eatman]

wyocarp, it seems to me you're hunting for rare exceptions to common practice. I don't really recall any restaurant in a publicly-owned building that's likely to be rented--and if gun-carry were a big deal to a renter, he'd avoid the issue entirely.

kurtmax, it is rarely a violation of state law to be MORE restrictive as to use of their premises. Just as one example: We used to have gunshows in the Austin city colliseum or in the basement of the city auditorium. There was no city restriction against having ammo in your pocket when going to some non-gunshow event. (This was before the days of Texas' CHL.) But the gunshows did not allow any loaded firearms, and eventually disallowed ammo sales. Before tie-wraps, the deal was "All actions open."

(I was rather glad of that no-ammo thing. I'd checked all my rifles at my table before setting them out for display. All were empty. A guy asked about a Model 94. I picked it up, opened the lever, and a cartridge ejected. That will give you a serious case of loose knees--among other things. Some SOB had played cutsie-poo. That particular rifle had been a trade-in at another show. I had cleaned it and oiled it but never loaded or shot it.)

I figure some things are just too trivial to worry about. They say, "No carry." Okay, I unload just before entry and tie-wrap at entry. There are generally cops around, so why be paranoid? When I leave the show, I cut the tie-wrap, reload, and go on about my business.

I figure that if a system works okay for several decades, odds are it's gonna keep on keeping on. Hard for me to get excited about it.