"Gun Tests" Magazine EXTORTION Tactics - Please Help

[The Mighty Beagle]

My wife sent in for the “two free issues†that Gun Tests offers to promote subscriptions to their magazine. After reading the issues, I was not that impressed and decided not to subscribe. When the inevitable subscription offer arrived, I just ignored it.

Needless to say, I was somewhat confused when Gun Tests started sending us bills for supposedly signing up for a one-year subscription. Apparently my silence was acceptance? I don’t think so. The latest was a condescending letter from some company official treating me like a deadbeat and telling me to “just do the right thing and pay us our money†or I would be turned over to a collections agency. Interestingly, there was no phone number listed where I could call this joker.

I don’t feel that I owe the buttholes at Gun Tests squat, and would tell them so, but ... can they really tun me over to collections?

Have they ever ruined someone’s credit over this?

What kind of people are they? Do they really think they can bully me into paying them $24 for their crappy magazine? What kind of loyal readership does that encourage? I mean, does cheesing everybody off actually work for them?

I would like to just ignore their threats, but frankly these people seem just stupid enough to make trouble for me, so I’m afraid to just let it go. They remind me of Joe Pesci in 'Casino' when he's threatening to break some investment manager's legs, "I'm stupid, I'm not afraid of jail."

Your advice please on how to end this matter efficiently and with finality.

 

[DualBerettas]

that sux man...same thing happened to me but I mailed the bill back saying to cancel, etc. haven't heard from them since. but this was a couple of years ago...they say they aren't biased but they're more biased than other gun mags...

i won't do biz w/ a company who sends you bills for stuff u didn't buy.

DB

 

[Alan Fud]

Almost all magazines do this. Send in for a free issue and if you don't cancell in writing, you've automatically signed up for a subscription. Some will take it so far as taking you to a collection agency if you don't pay. That's just the way things seem to work in the periodical business and I guess that Gun mags aren't any different from the rest.

 

[Mike Irwin]

You need to go back and read the entire "2 free issues" solicitation to see exactly how you go from free issues to a paid subscription.

A written reply to them telling them that you read your free issues, was unimpressed, and have no intention of paying for a subscription should suffice as a notice of cancellation.

The threat of a collection agency is just that, a threat. I don't believe that they have any solid leverage to apply, really, but that depends on the wording of the free issues offer. If they turn it over to a collection agency they end up losing a LOT of money, really.

This happened to me some years ago with a subscription that I wanted to cancel. I phoned, I wrote, and nothing. Still got the dunning letters. Finally I started getting them from a "collection agency," which upon review, turned out to be not a collection agency, but the collections department for their business. In other words, bupkis.

 

[Flashpoint]

Put a note in the bill envelope, saying you never agreed to purchase a subscription and to not send any more magazines. I would also add if I was contacted again by them or anyone associated with them they would hear from my lawyer.

 

[Alan Fud]

No need to spend money on a lawyer -- just ignore it if they continue bothering you after you cancelled in writing.

Mike, I have had collection agencies come after me for stuff like this but without a signature and/or a social security number on a signed form/application, a collection agencey doesn't have a leg to stand on and can only send nasty grams.

 

[gun-fucious]

ruin yer credit over a 12.95 subscription?

the magazine contracts a furfilment house to handle the subscriptions

send a letter to the editor of the magazine
expressing your displeasure at being threatened by his "employee"

if you are really steamed, CC 3 of the full page advertisers

 

[AJ Dual]

The words "State Attorney General's Consumer Protection Office" , "Fraud" and "Harrasment" all in the same letter often gets their attention. These people operate at the extreme bleeding edge of the law, and that terminology can be an automatic clue to quit, since state consumer protection fines, or even a complaint on file that bolsters the next person's case is usually enough to make it worthwhile for them to write off the $20-odd dollars you "owe" them.

Often it's not the magazine or the publisher that is engaging in the shady tactics, there's lots of contracted circulation resellers and subscription services that are actually the ones pulling this crap.

Sort of like if a car dealership gave you a test drive in a Ford, then when you came back to the sales lot they'd insisted you bought the car and gave you a bill. Ford wasn't the one that screwed you over, the dealership did.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

Almost all magazines do this. Send in for a free issue and if you don't cancell in writing, you've automatically signed up for a subscription.

Exactly. You didn't read the fine print and were sloppy in cancelling. Technically you are probably on the hook for the year's subscription.

In reality, simply write "cancel" on the bill, make a photocopy, and return it. That should be the end of it.

without a signature and/or a social security number on a signed form/application, a collection agencey doesn't have a leg to stand on

Wrong. Wording like "by requesting this free offer, subscriber agrees..." is quite sufficient.

If they turn it over to a collection agency they end up losing a LOT of money, really.

Wrong. If they turn over the account to collections, they do it by selling the debt for a fraction of its value -- say, $4. They lose the potential $8 of subscription revenue.

Have they ever ruined someone’s credit over this?

Naw. Ain't worth their time. Don't worry.

These people operate at the extreme bleeding edge of the law

Wrong. This is a very normal and defensible practice for magazines. Still, all you have to do is write "cancel" on the bill.

If they want to insist you pay for the one non-free mag you received, let `em. Or pay the $2. Fair's fair -- it's what you agreed to.

 

[laynlow]

I had a similar experience with a home theatre magazine. They sent it to collections, and I received a letter from some agency. I printed off the one free issue offer located on the website, informed them that I only received the one free issue (not the multiple issues they purported), sent a copy of the returned bill stating cancel, and told them to cease and desist.


Never had any more trouble.

 

[Mike Irwin]

"If they turn it over to a collection agency they end up losing a LOT of money, really.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wrong. If they turn over the account to collections, they do it by selling the debt for a fraction of its value -- say, $4. They lose the potential $8 of subscription revenue."


For a small fee item such as a subscription, unless you have a LOT of them going to an agency, the fee is normally closer to 50 to even 75 percent of the value of the debt, unless it's changed since the time I spent in the magazine industry.

The magazine/company is often willing to eat that loss based on the fairly good chance they have of capturing a full subscription the next cycle.


We won't even get into the potential "never capture" losses from word-of-mouth "anti" advertising...

 

[Alan Fud]

without a signature and/or a social security number on a signed form/application, a collection agencey doesn't have a leg to stand on
-------------------------------------------
Wrong. Wording like "by requesting this free offer, subscriber agrees..." is quite sufficient.

To affect your credit rating, they need your social or your signature or both.

In order to sue you, they need to do it within YOUR jurisdiction [sp] -- thus preventing most collection agencies from doing anything unless the amount is significant enough to warrant the expense.

 

[B_Scott]

Lets say you are a business owner.
You come up with an offer similar to this and find out that a lot of dishonest people take advantage of your marketing technique.
You start losing money.
You now need to raise the prices that loyal honest customers pay.
It's simple really....

YOU ARE STEALING IF YOU DON"T PAY.
Ignorance is no excuse.
Pay what you owe AND THEN cancel.

 

[Smurfslayer]

Don't ignore this

If you're getting "collection agency" notices _from_ a collection agency, your credit is in jeopardy. If that is the case, you need to pen the agency a letter correctly written to invoke the "Fair Debt Collection Practices act". There are many on the market which accurately describe precisely what the letter must say, and how to say it. Don't embellish. Send certified mail, return receipt. Post receipt they may not legally tarnish your credit, and my only contact you once to inform you they are returning the debt to the original debt holder.
My wife had to deal with this a couple years back, and this is a proven method of dealing with it. Free subscriptions are meant as a good faith offer to make you a subscriber. If you choose not to, all pontification here to the contrary, you are perfectly within your rights to decline to subscribe. Many states prohibit you from becoming a paying customer without explicit consent as opposed to implicit ( you didn't respond to the contrary ). This is considered smarmy, dirty, underhanded, unfair and, it builds ambivilence. Chances are GT is contracting the subscriptions out, but that is no excuse for misleading or deceptive business practices. I suggest you write the subscription and editorial department a write up of your tale, politely, but firmly declining their offer for a subscription, and politely advising them that noncompliance with your request could result in criminal and civil penalties against them. Copy it to some online sites - like here - with moderator permission of course, and post those cc's in the letter.
The official letter to the collection agency is the only way to avoid any potential credit report entries, the 'strongly worded letter' is likely one of the only ways to get them to rethink their belligerent subscription policy.

HTH

 

[Phil Ca]

Some companies,i.e. credit cartd and some that offer you a special trial offer have been sending out letters that you would assume to be an advbertisement. If you ignore the letter and toss it you may regret it. The shyster outfit will claim that you are now signed up for some amount, say $50 bucks worth of stuff you don't want. It took me about three months and some threats to get them off my back. Apparantly enough people roll over and go along with it to make it worth while.

I told them their cheesy/sleezy stuff would not even be something I would allow in my home.

 

[Andrew Rothman]

To affect your credit rating, they need your social or your signature or both.

Nope.

 

[abaddon]

This sucks. To make them pay a little you could send them back the business reply envelopes with pieces of scrap metal in them. They have to pay for postage and if you get the weight high enough it could cost them a bit. My grandpa told me a story of union workers doing this with their employers business reply envelopes. They got what they wanted.

Jeff

 

[Justin]

I think that this one has addressed the initial problem quite well, and has taken off for parts unknown.