Selling the Handicapped firearms

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chink

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I was picking up a pistol I purchased a little while ago (stupid waiting periods). Next to me at the counter was a guy filling out the yellow form. It appeared from his speech, his posture and his unsteadiness that he has some sort of handicap. He also had a guy watching standing with him, seemed to me like a caretaker of sorts. They guy has taken 2 attempts to fill out the yellow form and made mistakes. At which point the caretaker ask if he could fill out the form from him. The sales person then said, “I just want you to know that I don’t feel comfortable selling you the gunâ€.

I don’t understand why the sales person didn’t/couldn’t just say “Sorry, I can’t sell you a gun†if he didn’t feel right about it.

As I was driving back to work I was hit with conflicting feeling of 1) I don’t know what this guys deal is so it should be fine for him to own guns if he passes the background check and 2) He can barely hold that pen steady I really don’t want this guy shooting anything in the same county as me.
 
Years and years ago my neighbors had Parkinson Disease and he had problems doing just about anything. He went out and bought a gun with the help of another neighbor, then he turned it on himself.
 
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thumbtack,
He turned the gun on you?

Or did you mean he turned it on himself?

If he turned it on you I'd like to hear more. If the later then I understand.

Gameface
 
a private business has the right to refuse service to anyone.

what if someone couldnt read or write and cant fill out the paperwork and they dont have any criminal background, or if they dont speak english?

have any ffls came accross any of those circumstances? and how did you handle it?
 
One of my best buddies was diagnosed with muscular dystrophy about six or seven years ago now. This has caused him to steadily (or unsteadily ... a little gallows humor there) deteriorate over that time.

Last December, he found out that he also has multiple sclerosis, and they haven't been able to bring it under control yet. The drugs make his face look funny and puffy. The diseases and the drugs he takes for them also cause him to have days when he is definitely worse off than he is on other days.

Physically, he is still able to hold a gun, but he's unsteady on his feet and his speech is beginning to slur. There's nothing wrong with his mind, but he looks disabled.

All other things being equal, he probably has less than 10 years to live... maybe a lot less. So he is living to make every day count.

Shooting is and has been one of the joys of his life. He is an avid reloader and has filled his deer tags every year for as long as I've known him (using the shoot-from-the-truck handicapped tags the past couple-three years). He's still an excellent shot despite his mobility problems. When he's on the range, he's just another one of the guys.

I've never seen him do anything unsafe with a gun. He does slur his words and he should be using a wheelchair instead of risking a bad fall by continuing to walk. He's not ready to quit fighting the diseases, though, so on his feet he stays. He's got some dignity, after all.

And you want to take his guns away??

I don't think so.

pax

The right to own weapons is the right to be free. -- A. E. Van Vogt
 
It's really a question of what the disease is. If it doesn't degrade his mental state then there's no reason that the handicapped shouldn't be able to purchse a gun or use it. A collector buddy of mine has MS and he won't be giving up trying to get that last rare whatever till they put him in the ground.

Guncraft Sports here in Kville actually has a handicapped shooter program that they put on with one of the local hospitals. Great program and great for the participants!
 
Why the hell don't we just execute all the handicapped people then nobody has to worry about us owning guns.
 
My step father is handicapped, (lost a leg) but I doubt thats what your talking about here. Mentally handicapped is what your at, or anything that may produce the outward appearance of this.

When I first started shooting an elderly gentlement and I suppose his son would go shooting at my range. The kid couldnt fill anything out and couldnt seem to get his attention span in check. I was real worried about an accident brewing, but then again I'm more paranoid than most folks. I sat back and watched this kid's dad put a loaded rifle(think it was a 700) in his hands and the kid went to work. Popping off the rounds downrange and cycling the bolt as smoothly as any professional could hope for. I talked to the guys at the range about it. They didnt know what the kid had, but informed me sub moa groups were entirely the usual for him. The brain is funny like that though...
 
Wow magsnubby, that's a funny joke:confused:

I hope...:scrutiny:

I think that a person who has never shown a reason to be denied and who passes the check is good to go. I don't want to tell a good person that they are done shooting because they "seem" a little unsteady.

Gameface
 
''Handicapped'' - ''disabled'' .... covers a wide variety of problems. I think it is partly ''every case on its merits (demerits)'' .... but being very careful to adjudicate with absolute impartiality. ''Books and covers'' ... for sure can apply.

Ask Preacherman about this kind of subject - he is pretty involved as I remember and .. one who helps many have guns, and thus a rightful means of self defence.
 
Gameface,
Notice i said "us". ? People tell me i have a sick sense of humor. But hell man,if i can't make fun of myself,who can i make fun of?

P95Carry,
Ditto.
 
I have the same feeling

everytime I see a person (of any color) dressed like a gangbanger/lowlife buy a gun.
Anytime I see someone with a mullet haircut or wife beater t-shirt but one.
Anytime I see gunshop owners talk some new gun owner into the wrong gun to make or sale or out of stupidity sell them the wrong thing for their needs.
Anytime I see a buyer hold the gun sideways like in the movies, and him and his buddy giggle with that stoner laugh.
but they have the absolute right to buy them.
If someone is in a deteriorated medical state and want to off themselves?
Not your business or decision.
Now if a guy comes in and asks what's the best weapon to kill that cheatin beeyatch I'm married to, liability and legally you need to pass on the sale.

Is the time coming when before you buy a car you have to swear you won't drink and drive and pass a DUI background check?

CentralJUSTMAKINGYOUTHINKTexas
Sorry wild, I couldn't resist :)
 
I met a man at one time who could hardly grasp a rifle and walked with great difficulty, some type of neural problem.

I introduced him to shooting with a 22 rifle and he had so much fun he went out and bought one for himself and we spent a number of afternoons shooting.
He was not hitting a lot of targets but he derived great enjoyment from shooting and always had a grin as he reloaded the tubular magazine of his rifle. He dropped about half of his ammo on the ground while loading and always managed to get it picked up, cleaned off and eventually loaded into the rifle.

He did follow the rules for safe gun handling while handling, loading and shooting his rifle and never had a ND or accident while I was shooting with him.

I haven’t seen him in years but the last I knew he was still plinking away and having fun.

Of course he had no mental problems, but at first glance one might suspect that he did.
I guess what I am trying to say is that, as in any other situation, one must know all of the facts before jumping to a conclusion.
I cannot fault a store clerk or anyone else for that matter for being concerned about selling a firearm to someone such as this as you very will be Damned if you do and Damned if you don’t.
If all paper work is good etc. I guess it would be a judgment call by the seller.
vern
 
At first it didn't bother me, because the sales person gave him the yellow form told me he was helping him and asked me to wait a little bit. I think I became weary when the sales person said "Why don't you take it home and fill it (yellow form) out come back and we will get you taken care of." and he was insisted that he get the paperwork done and then the sales person made the comment about being uncomfortable selling to him.

Like I said, I was conflicted.
 
Multi-Faceted Issue

I would contend that for certain psychiatric and neurological issues shooting could actually be therapeutic, but I've never seen any research on it.

A seller's responsibility is not only to the customer, and even then part of the responsibility to the customer should be not setting them up for disaster. While I believe that in general the dealers and manufacturers should not be held liable for a possessor's activities, there is a professional ethical issue with enabling a person believed to be incompetent with obtaining a gun.
 
When my father contracted Alzheimer's disease, I took his gun away. I would expect somebody to do the same to me if I should contract this most horrible of diseases. Or better yet, use one of them on me. (No, I'm not kidding) But I'd love my wife to be able to use a gun and enjoy the simple pleasures they give me. But she can't even hold one anymore. If she could, I could see no reason why she shouldn't be given the same consideration given me.
 
I have neropathy (spelling) and arthritus in both hands. Most days I'm lucky to pick up a pen, much less use it. I can still hold a gun and ususally buy about 1 a month. The people at my gun shop fill out for yellow for me and I just have to sign it. With out their help it would be a 15 minute job for me. I have other disablities that affect how long I can stand and walk. They provide me with a seat when I come in. The placard I put in my car window says DISABLED, that doesn't mean I'm DEAD, nor does the shaking of my hands and the time it takes me to sign my name make me a simpleton. I still go to the range twice a week and can hold my own with anyone. Don't judge the book by the cover. For those of you who can't see the person inside the other then perfect body, GO TO HELL!, and for those who say lets mess with the sick old man I have a Glock 26 on my hip to help you on the way. That is the most typing I have done in the last year but subjects like this get me steamed.
 
Oldie ... well said Sir ....... (neuropathy BTW). I am glad there are folks around you who assist re writing etc ... and indeed, as I stated before ... the ''book/cover'' deal needs always born in mind - often overlooked totally. Keep that 26 well used and by your side.

I'll also in light vein mention one of my sig lines ..... very pertinent to you and me ... (courtesy of Preacherman originally) .....

"Don't fight an old man - he's got nothing to lose, and has learned all the dirty tricks you still don't know!" (Preacherman):D
 
A lot of states have prohibitions against selling guns to people who are physically incapable of safely handling a gun. Neuromuscular disorders can SOMETIMES fall into this category, depending on circumstances.

It seems to me the shopkeeper had noticed what was obviously a neuromuscular problem, and was doing his due dilligence, to cover his own buttocks.
 
I was forced into a medical retirement. Line of duty. Traumatic closed head injury. Stroked out. I was most affected on my left side. CVA on right side. Vision problems, partial paralysis and loss of balance. Physical terrorists worked me over. I can walk, not perfect but, I get from Point A to Point B. I kept my firearms. I have bought others. I have mentored other handicapped/disabled shooters. I used to work for a program that allowed me to work with disadvantaged youths. I would take them shooting and shopping. They had their deer tags paid for by me. We enjoyed ourselves. I introduced a few people to something besides video games. They learned to hunt and fish. This was from a overweight, wobbly, diabetic with bad eyesight. Remember Kentucky Rifle? He was another disabled shooter. If I get to the point of being carried to the range and placed on a blanket to shoot, I am going. A fellow I know does just that. A woman I know is a bullseye shooter. She has a electric wheelchair, has her magazines loaded for her and is a typical woman, she wants a person to respect her, not condescend to her disability.
 
Well said, geek

A lot of states have prohibitions against selling guns to people who are physically incapable of safely handling a gun. Neuromuscular disorders can SOMETIMES fall into this category, depending on circumstances.

It seems to me the shopkeeper had noticed what was obviously a neuromuscular problem, and was doing his due dilligence, to cover his own buttocks.
Click to expand...
Agreed. The vendor was not acting unreasonably. I believe the reality here is that gun shop owners need to be judiciously proactive in such circumstances....much more so than perhaps any other purveyor of goods. If this means perusing every square inch of a book's cover, than so be it. Hurt feelings are fleeting. The obligation to protect both one's livelihood and the general welfare of others must endure.

The testimonials from the crippled members of THR are quite valid. Pity that the shop owner can't download one's life experiences in the time it takes to complete the accursed yellow form.

TM

And, pax? In what part of this thread was it originally written that someone was threatening to take away your best bud's firearms?
 
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