Gun Transfer Issue

[TomJ]

I received a call from a friend regarding a gun transfer question. He is originally from Illinois and now splits his time equally between there and Florida. As of last February he's legally a Florida resident as he has a Florida driver's license and files taxes as a Florida resident. He still has an Illinois FOID as it hasn't expired, but given that he's a Florida resident I don't know that his FOID is valid. At the beginning of this month he bought a gun from a friend of his who moved to Illinois for a couple of years bringing with him some guns he owned, but he never applied for a FOID. They were not aware of the requirement to run the sale through the state police website and did not do so. My friend is in Florida for a while and his friend he bought the gun from just moved to California. My friend knows they dropped the ball and is looking for a way to correct this. I suggested talking to an attorney to find out what their options are but wanted to ask if anyone here had suggestions.

 

[AJC1]

Just pay for a current ffl transfer if you want a record.

 

[TomJ]

Just pay for a current ffl transfer if you want a record.

I thought of that, but he'd need to ship the gun to his friend in California and have his friend ship it back to him in Florida. I don't know anything about California gun laws and don't know if that's an option. I'm hoping it's that simple.

 

[AJC1]

I thought of that, but he'd need to ship the gun to his friend in California and have his friend ship it back to him in Florida. I don't know anything about California gun laws and don't know if that's an option. I'm hoping it's that simple.

If his friend is in the same state as him now, just mail it to Florida and transfer under the most unrestricted area.

 

[TomJ]

If his friend is in the same state as him now, just mail it to Florida and transfer under the most unrestricted area.

He's in Florida. His friend is in California.

 

[AJC1]

Well check to see if Florida requires a transfer. It may be a nonissue

 

[Buzznrose]

Deleted…

 

[CapnMac]

If I followed this right,
Friend B, a resident of Illinois, sold firearm(s) to Friend B, a resident of Florida.
So, Friend B seems to have violated 18 USC 922 (a) [emphasis added]:

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to (A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and (B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

18 USC 922 (b)(2)can be read to require a transfer to be legal in both States. And the IL FOID requirement likely applies here.

Friend B really needed to use an FFL in Florida for Friend A to collect from.

And ignorance of the law will not obviate this "uh oh."

 

[AJC1]

If I followed this right,
Friend B, a resident of Illinois, sold firearm(s) to Friend B, a resident of Florida.
So, Friend B seems to have violated 18 USC 922 (a) [emphasis added]:


18 USC 922 (b)(2)can be read to require a transfer to be legal in both States. And the IL FOID requirement likely applies here.

Friend B really needed to use an FFL in Florida for Friend A to collect from.

And ignorance of the law will not obviate this "uh oh."

It sounded like the transfer was not initially interstate. Maybe resolution without incriminating anyone could be done at the state level.

 

[dogtown tom]

I received a call from a friend regarding a gun transfer question. He is originally from Illinois and now splits his time equally between there and Florida. As of last February he's legally a Florida resident as he has a Florida driver's license and files taxes as a Florida resident.

What state you pay taxes, vote, etc is irrelevant. For the purposes of acquiring firearms, ATF considers you a resident of the state where you make your home. Having a drivers license from a particular state doesnpt make you a resident of that state. Again, you actually have to reside there.
ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residence https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2010-6-state-residence/download

Note that it is possible to have more than one state of residence and some people may not have any (such as full time RV'ers). Member of the armed services on active duty are considered a resident of the state where their Permanent Duty Station is located and if different, the state where they actually reside. What the military considers as "home state" is irrelevant.

He still has an Illinois FOID as it hasn't expired, but given that he's a Florida resident I don't know that his FOID is valid. At the beginning of this month he bought a gun from a friend of his who moved to Illinois for a couple of years bringing with him some guns he owned, but he never applied for a FOID. They were not aware of the requirement to run the sale through the state police website and did not do so. My friend is in Florida for a while and his friend he bought the gun from just moved to California. My friend knows they dropped the ball and is looking for a way to correct this. I suggested talking to an attorney to find out what their options are but wanted to ask if anyone here had suggestions.

If both were residents of Illinois at the time of the transaction, no federal law was violated.
If IL law required the transfer be documented by ISP, its a bit late for that. Only the ISP can tell you if they will process an after the fact transaction.

I get calls all the time about people who bought/sold/traded for a gun with an out of state relative and now want to "make it legal".........you can't, you already violated the law.

 

[dogtown tom]

I thought of that, but he'd need to ship the gun to his friend in California and have his friend ship it back to him in Florida. I don't know anything about California gun laws and don't know if that's an option. I'm hoping it's that simple.

Dont do that.

 

[dogtown tom]

Well check to see if Florida requires a transfer. It may be a nonissue

Its already been transferred.

 

[TomJ]

What state you pay taxes, vote, etc is irrelevant. For the purposes of acquiring firearms, ATF considers you a resident of the state where you make your home. Having a drivers license from a particular state doesnpt make you a resident of that state. Again, you actually have to reside there.
ATF Ruling 2010-6 State of Residence https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/ruling/2010-6-state-residence/download

Note that it is possible to have more than one state of residence and some people may not have any (such as full time RV'ers). Member of the armed services on active duty are considered a resident of the state where their Permanent Duty Station is located and if different, the state where they actually reside. What the military considers as "home state" is irrelevant.



If both were residents of Illinois at the time of the transaction, no federal law was violated.
If IL law required the transfer be documented by ISP, its a bit late for that. Only the ISP can tell you if they will process an after the fact transaction.

I get calls all the time about people who bought/sold/traded for a gun with an out of state relative and now want to "make it legal".........you can't, you already violated the law.

Thanks for this info. From what the ATF is stating, with him residing in both Illinois and Florida and his time being split equally between the two it looks like this is an Illinois issue only since both were residents of Illinois at the time of the sale. You're correct that he'd have to see if the ISP will allow them to process it after the fact.

 

[Frank Ettin]

This is not the sort of legal problem that should be discussed in public with a bunch of anonymous strangers. In addition it's pretty much pointless to try to sort out a potentially complex, and risky, legal issue using secondhand information.