Gun vs. Knife Follow Up with Video

Status
Not open for further replies.
T

tonerguy

Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
126
Location
Houston, TX
The post about guns vs. knives created a flood of strong opinions and great information.

Now there's a must-see video that really illustrates what a guy with a knife can do against a guy with a pistol.

Here's a follow up post that points to gotta-read articles and to the very sobering video itself.
 
We did an episode of SHOOTING GALLERY with Michael Janich, head of Masters of Defense Knives and one of the great American masters of the blade, titled "Knife Training for Gunfighters" that will air in (I believe) January 2007. The SG site (shootinggallery.tv) will have the upcoming schedule in eqarly December.

I believe this is the hardest-core knife/gun/counterknife stuff ever aired, and I'm looking foward to what you guys think. I've been through Janich's three-stage course, and I highly recommend it to everyone.

Michael B
 
:barf:

This is bunk. Your immediate reaction would be to punch, kick and claw the jerky rushing you. The human mind focuses (to an insane degree) on what it would consider the threat, which is the knife.

Also, delivering a deadly attack is a lot harder than fluttering your hands around as idiot #1 in the demo was doing. A good right cross to idiot #1's face and he would be down for the count.
 
Your immediate reaction would be to punch, kick and claw the jerky rushing you. The human mind focuses (to an insane degree) on what it would consider the threat, which is the knife.

Unfortunately, punch, kick and claw doesn't keep you from being slashed and stabbed very well, even in training.

Most peoples immediate reaction will be to throw hands and arms up and out, trying to keep the danger away from you, that just opens the body core for some more quick real damage from the knife.

Brownie
 
Also, delivering a deadly attack is a lot harder than fluttering your hands around as idiot #1 in the demo was doing. A good right cross to idiot #1's face and he would be down for the count.
Click to expand...
I can tell you've been in a lot of fights. lol

Don't count on your "good right cross" to drop somebody....a club 'maybe'....but a "good right cross"?
.
 
that fluttering was the the guy trying to not hurt his training partner with the fake knife. most of us saw what e was imitating, which was cuts to the abdomen, chest or throat. even a fake knife can injure your buddy. he was being careful, not imitating an attack butterfly.
 
Also, delivering a deadly attack is a lot harder than fluttering your hands around as idiot #1 in the demo was doing. A good right cross to idiot #1's face and he would be down for the count.
Click to expand...
I can tell you've been in a lot of fights. lol

Don't count on your "good right cross" to drop somebody....a club 'maybe'....but a "good right cross"?
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing.

Also the default reaction, is the reaction you train...

Here's an intresting article that looks at very default cover postions.
http://www.urbancombatives.com/defaultart.htm
 
The video is lacking in dynamic movement which is a determining factor that can not be overlooked.

A gun can overcome a knife, open hand can overcome a knife, a knife can overcome both. The difference is the person's commitment and training.

Get an airsoft gun, a chalk knife and try it yourself.
 
I saw this on COPS once. A guy came at an officer (unarmed though) and in order to have space to draw he gave the guy a front kick the stomach, giving him room and time to draw his sidearm. Obviously it wouldn't work 100% but it is just a thought.
 
Very chilling. I'm starting to think holsters are useless in general. I'd like to see the same drill with a carbine or rifle on a belly or combat sling.
 
Interesting stuff. Not really my area of expertise; I'm just a gun gamer. Having said that, it seems to me that standing around with your arms at your sides while six feet away from an aggressive man with a knife reveals some kind of serious tactical flaw. I'm reminded of the fellow who asks "Well, what should I do if I wake from a sound sleep to discover a man leaning over me with a knife?" The answer being, of course, "Die." The person who finds him/herself in either position, IMO, has arrived there at the end of a series of lousy decisions.

In my ignorant gun gamer opinion, of course. :)
 
BTW, to amplify on Ten Ring's comments, why are the gunners in this video drawing (slowly) to a full Weaver stance? If ever there was a time for point shooting...
 
.38, they are doing what they train to do. When the adrenaline dump hits and someone is trying to kill you, you default to your training.

If you have no training, then you react by instinct. Usually, that reaction will be wrong, because that lack of training means that you also probably haven't been thinking about such situations, and haven't programmed your mind to do anything about such an attack.

I would want to move, block, perhaps kick, and then draw one-handed. Of course, that's after watching the video several times. Real life doesn't give do-overs.
 
Significant differences between citizen CCW and police video:

1. I don't use a Level III retention holster on my .38 or .45.

2. I'm not interviewing subjects who aren't showing their hands.

3. I won't stand still waiting to be slashed; no one moved off the line of attack in any of those video simulations.
 
You'll be horrified how long it takes for the mind to process that someone is beginning a knife attack if you've not seen a knife yet.

The guy that walks up to you on the street while you're talking on the cell phone and asks if you know the way to Santa Fe could then pull the knife that you find at your throat as if by magic.

Get 3 friends some time and have them decide who's going to make the attack and who's just going to walk on by. Have them space things out several seconds instead of ganging up on you. You don't know who and you don't know how. The advantage you have is what you do know is that one of them will carve you up. Find out how well you handle it 'cause you won't have that advantage on the street.

Movement and a reactive response that protects the vitals is what is needed.
 
Last edited:
Having survived an attempt at being shived with a screw driver taught me some important lessons.
 
That's because the cop in the video stood there in one place while he tried to draw. It's not "knife is faster than gun", it's "aggressive forward motion beats standing still". Doesn't matter whether the guy standing there has a gun, a battle axe, or a bazooka, if he doesn't move and create distance, he's a dead duck. Training at the indoor range, standing still and shooting paper targets all the time are what gets people behind the power curve when it comes to a real life encounter. If the gun guy's first reaction had been to duck and move quickly at a 45 degree angle to the attack, the knife guy would be *very* SOL.

This scene is as much of a setup as many martial arts demos where the attacker comes in at a predetermined speed with a predetermined technique. In other words, it ain't real. Talk all you want about the knife being faster than the gun, the gun can kill from a distance and creating distance should be your first priority in dealing with a contact weapon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

JShirley
  • Locked
Small Impact Tool Basics
Replies
4
Views
338
JRH6856
JRH6856
C
  • Locked
So lets say you DO bring a knife to a gun fight. . .
2 3
Replies
70
Views
4K
wheelgunslinger
W
A
  • Locked
Excellent training video for the "what ifs".
Replies
1
Views
384
Rob Pincus
R
I
  • Locked
YouTube bans knife and gun videos (Retry #1)
2 3
Replies
50
Views
4K
Cosmoline
C
S
  • Locked
How's your Knife....
Replies
21
Views
1K
Jeff White
J
Back
Top