Gunnies and Pilots

[misANTHrope]

Unfortunately, as has been mentioned here already, flying requires disposable income, something I have precious little of... and as a result, I remain a "future pilot." Seems like I'm always about six months away from finally getting the cash socked away to start on my private ticket, but I never quite get there...

It's something I've wanted to do since I was about 15, and I will do it before I die. And then, once I make my fortune, I'll buy my T-28 and go fly airshows on the weekends. And when I make my fortune really really really big, I'll buy a P-51 and become a Heritage Flight pilot.

They say it's good to have goals; well, there are mine.

 

[October]

Packman - congrats on the instrument rating, that's awesome! Once I got mine, I found flying on an instrument flight plan so much easier and enjoyable than VFR (even with flight following). Being in the wide open Midwest probably had something to do with that.

I agree with most of the comments regarding similarities between shooters and pilots. The one that I'll add is that I think both groups are largely self-enforcing. Yes, both have sets of rules (e.g. currency requirements for pilots, background checks for purchasing a firearm), but I've always found that both groups generally encourage standards that exceed what's required by the rules, which is what makes both activities surprisingly safe considering what's involved.

One area that I think is different between the two groups is how they have responded post 9-11. Pilot groups seem to have embraced the idea that more security is needed and is better (e.g. AOPA's Airport watch program, the proliferation of TFRs, etc.). I haven't seen the gun rights groups take the same attitude, but maybe that is because the Heller decision is so fresh in my mind. Or maybe it's because of the basic difference between the two activities: flying is a privilege while gun ownership is a fundamental right.

 

[ColinthePilot]

I'm a Commercial Multi Instrument pilot in the civilian world, and a Navigator in the USAF. Since the Air Force is paying me to fly, I sink most of my disposable income into guns nowadays. I've been flying for about 7 years, seriously shooting for about 3 (learned at about 10yo, but had to spend my summer job money on my Private Pilot Cert.)
I'll take a slightly more psychological view on why pilots and gunnies often share those interests. Why do most pilots become pilots in the first place? We do it for the freedom it offers. No traffic jams, no speed limits, and its so much fun. We own guns to protect that freedom, and because they're so much fun! And as someone already mentioned, both groups are constantly fighting to stay off the chopping block.

 

[hoosier8]

Great Post!

I was never a gun guy until recently. Three things contributed to owning firearms. First, the extended family hunted and owned firearms, although, it was never anything extensive. I have memories of the grandparents house and going hunting while visiting. Second, my daughter joined the Marines and I thought it would be nice to go and shoot at the range. Third, the recent SCOTUS decision and the discussions leading up to it, really got me thinking. I now think of it as my civic duty. I am over the hill as far as the militia requirements, but I can at least provide arms for those in my family that aren't, lol.

I dreamt of flying since I was 12, took lessons along the way and finally got my license in my 30's. One of the contributing factors was that my uncle would give me his EAA magazines when he was finished with them. I have always wanted to build one. I owned a Cessna 150 and a couple of 140's. One of my friends got bitten by the flying bug and got his license. He had an FFL license and had a few pistols at the hanger. I say had, he has since passed away.

I remember being out at the airport one day and discussing the trouble I was having with my wife. The owner of a Navion told me to get rid of the wife, and take care of the plane. I did not listen and now have neither. I am now spending my disposable income on three things, the girlfriend, the Victorian house, and shooting sports. I don't have enough for the plane at this time; although, I think of it often. AVGAS??? Buy a plane that can be STC'ed for Auto Gas. My 150 was and I never had any problems. Even though I am a licensed A&P, the cost of rebuilding an engine is still expensive (cost of parts). I rebuilt the Continental for the 150 for a cost of about $3K in parts 15 years ago. Gotta be more now.

Why guns and planes. I think of it as a mindset. I do not think of pilots as a fearful group. Basically, more like the rugged individuals that the country was founded by. Gun ownership for this kind of individual is only a natural extension of rugged individualism. For me, being a mechanically minded person, as posted before, the simple mechanics of the firearm appeals to me. There is a beauty to it, just as there is a beauty to the flying sport.

 

[Jimmie]

I'm a military pilot, building a homebuilt in my garage (although I'll probably sell it before long), and I'm working on my gun collection. There's a thread identical to this one on a flying board I frequent.

 

[M2 Carbine]

misANTHrope
Unfortunately, as has been mentioned here already, flying requires disposable income, something I have precious little of... and as a result, I remain a "future pilot." Seems like I'm always about six months away from finally getting the cash socked away to start on my private ticket, but I never quite get there...

There are relatively inexpensive ways to get in the air.
After I retired I thought about buying another plane but I really didn't want to. Among other things, after 22,000 hours of flying, I'd had my fill of the modern air traffic system and really wanted to get back to no instruments stick and rudder seat of the pants flying again. I thought about buying something like a J3 Cub but I wanted something that I could fly from my place. After some funny happenings I ended up with these two ultralight machines.
Satisfies my urge to get off the ground and costs relatively little to do it.

 

[hoosier8]

M2 Carbine: I used to Hang glide. Another inexpensive way to fly and absolutely the closest to being a bird that you can get. I would do it now if I were in a part of the country that was conducive to it.

 

[Mike OTDP]

I still want to build a replica World War 1 fighter. The ultimate in cross-breeding guns and wings.

 

[Yankee]

Never knew life without guns or planes. Dad was a pilot and keen shooter and I grew up sharing both of these passions with him. Cost of flying has forced me to cut back on my hours recently but I'm trying to compensate by indulging in some of my slightly less expensive hobbies such as shooting (although the cost of that is also getting out of control).

I'm not at all surprised that there are many other pilots here and I bet you'll find other communities which share our values. I'm a long time scuba diver and there are many divers who are also pilots and by extension, I would expect that they are dis-proportionately pro-gun.

 

[Flyboy]

CP-ASMEL, CFII.

And I've noticed that a dramatically disproportionate share of pilots seem to have concealed carry permits. I've heard it said that studies show pilots tend to be, for want of a better term, "control freaks." I'm inclined to think that may explain the correlation: those of us who carry do so because we want to be in control of our own destinies. Just my thoughts, anyway.

 

[mgkdrgn]

"Any of you pilots in Florida? I've been itching to fly a plane out somewhere to go shooting."

I'm in Columbia, SC. If you wanna come up here to do some shooting, I'd be happy to take you down to our range. Mid Carolina Rifle Club.

I live 2.5 miles dead off the end of runway 29 at CAE. (EVERYTHING goes right over my pool. )

Brett

 

[mainebear]

Packman: Congratulations on your new Rating. Ex commercial pilot here. (On demand Air Taxi then Corporate.) Lost my medical. Boy do I miss that profession. Always carried my 1903 Colt with me in the plane. I considered it a vital part of my flight kit.

Just as an aside what is it with all the PA 28-180 pilots and owners here. I had one from the late 70's to the early 80's. Great planes, easy to maintain. Good to see that a lot of others feel the same way. Couldn't afford to own one today though.

Look at your new Rating as just another license to learn. Take it easy until you get some actual IFR time under your belt, stay within your abilities and the capabilities of the aircraft. Having and using that rating will make you a better pilot, a safer pilot, and will keep you from getting stranded from home a whole bunch. Stay Safe. Capt. Rick

 

[Packman]

I agree with most of the comments regarding similarities between shooters and pilots. The one that I'll add is that I think both groups are largely self-enforcing. Yes, both have sets of rules (e.g. currency requirements for pilots, background checks for purchasing a firearm), but I've always found that both groups generally encourage standards that exceed what's required by the rules, which is what makes both activities surprisingly safe considering what's involved.

Interesting observation. You're completely correct, but I've never really thought of it that way.

One area that I think is different between the two groups is how they have responded post 9-11. Pilot groups seem to have embraced the idea that more security is needed and is better (e.g. AOPA's Airport watch program, the proliferation of TFRs, etc.). I haven't seen the gun rights groups take the same attitude, but maybe that is because the Heller decision is so fresh in my mind. Or maybe it's because of the basic difference between the two activities: flying is a privilege while gun ownership is a fundamental right.

Also quite correct.

I'm not at all surprised that there are many other pilots here and I bet you'll find other communities which share our values. I'm a long time scuba diver and there are many divers who are also pilots and by extension, I would expect that they are dis-proportionately pro-gun.

You're right. I've noticed a MASSIVE crossover of pilots who are also SCUBA divers. I'm one myself. I haven't met many divers who're gun guys, but I only really hang around the same group and it's just never really come up.

Look at your new Rating as just another license to learn. Take it easy until you get some actual IFR time under your belt, stay within your abilities and the capabilities of the aircraft.

More learning is just over the horizon. I'm rolling right into my commercial ASEL before the end of the month. I plan to make a career of this.

 

[Bulletsponge]

How do you know when there is a pilot in the room?

He'll tell you! =P

 

[Moo 2 Drvr]

Congrats on the instrument rating. Now you will begin to enjoy many more challenges and opportunities of flying.

Like virtually all of the above posters, I am a GA pilot and have been for 35 years. Worked my way through the ranks. Instructed to pay for school. Worked as a freight dog for a time. Been a gun lover and scuba diver for just as long.

Currently own half of an MU2 rice rocket and have for five years. Getting really expensive in the last year. What can you do?

I agree with the other posters that most of the pilots I know are conservative/libertarian and pro gun. Also, many scuba divers. This would make an interesting scientific study.

 

[JoeShmoe]

I've been an airline pilot for nearly 20 years. Pilots tend to be conservative by nature, and so guns are a natural. There are a few who are against guns in the cockpit but most are in favor. The FFDO program has it's flaws, but the training is absolutely fantastic.

 

[mustang 22]

Aircraft and guns go together like bacon and eggs. I am a retired Army Aviator and was a licenced pilot before I went into the service. I got my first gun for Christmas when I was nine. Age and medical issues kind of put a stop to my flying a few years ago but I'm still a regular at range 15 at Ft. Lewis WA.

 

[Flyboy73]

Private Pilot for 17 years. Own a share in a C-172. Seems like guns and GA are allways the target of the media.

Brion

 

[Apachedriver]

Army rotary wing pilot here with Commercial Instrument ticket. Flying Attack Helicopters for 16 years so far. Shooting is fun and flying is a rush but both at the same time...hell, it's damn near orgasmic.

BTW, good to see so many other flyers on here...I knew there was something I liked about this place.

 

[TehK1w1]

Not a pilot, but my father took me up in his when he flew. (Plane damaged by Rita and sold). Boy that thing was fun...I miss flying. Stinson 108-2, Bellanca 1413.

 

[Avenger29]

If any of you pilots or shooters are near Greenwood, SC or Augusta, GA, send me a PM. I've always got room for passengers or shooting buddys. I live near Greenwood, SC and fly out of Augusta, at Daniel Field...

So I took my Instrument Rating today, and passed. I had to go past the range on the way home, and it reminded me of a guy I'd met at the airport a while back. Big time gun collector. As I was driving home, I got to thinking.

Congratulations on the IR ticket. That's one of the more difficult ratings to earn...commercial is gravy I am told...

How many of you gun guys are pilots? I seem to meet an awful lot of pilots who are pro-gun.

2 year Private Pilot here. Always wanted to be pilot, always been a shooter. In fact, much of my life at this point revolves around those two activities. I care for little else...

As pilots, what's your view of the FFDO (Federal Flight Deck Officer) Program?

APPROVE!

Does your view change from the standpoint of a gunny?

Nope. Still Approve!

Are you a professional pilot? Do you consider yourself a pilot who's a gun guy, or a gun guy who's a pilot?

Both. I like them equally. I am inseparable from either.

Why do you think there's as strong a base of support in the aviation community for shooting as there is? I find it interesting, the overwhelming majority of pilots I meet a conservative/libertarian, and in favor of gun rights.

Yes, many pilots are not antis. They know extremely well how Big Media can go against something.

I once heard someone say that the general aviation community has a lot in common with the shooting community. Both are relatively small (I know, I mean active shooters like on this board, not the guy with granddads old shotgun in the closet.) and often under attack by the media. Both wield a decent amount of political clout (EAA, AOPA, NRA). Both have a huge grass-roots support base.

Yep. We are both also under constant attack by gov't agencies. BATFE for shooters, FAA and DHS for us pilots.

I fly the mighty Cessna 172 that makes nations cower and I carry an evil black 12 guage 870 shotgun when I fly. FEAR ME!

And hey, you pilots without medicals? Look into Light Sport Aircraft and Ultralights. If you lost your medical however, due to FAA denial, then you are probably screwed due to the Catch-22. Read up elsewhere...

 

[rrflyer]

CONGRATS ON THE INSTRUMENT RATING!!!!!

Honestly the instrument rating is one of the hardest checkrides I took. You'll use those skills your entire career.

I've been around flying and guns since I was born. Dad was an aeronautical engineer, grandad was a retired Eastern Airlines pilot.

I've never had such a love/hate relationship as I have with aviation. Its taken me places and I've gotten to do and see things my other friends have only wished they could but its also had me living in my car and taking food stamps more than once. Enjoy the ride!

Right now I fly a Lear 60 and its a rocket ship. I've seen 13,000+ FPM climb rates. Record is sea level to 41,000 ft in 9:30!!!

I'm hoping to start some aerobatic training this fall once I get the rest of my debt paid off.

As a group pilots are a conservative bunch and the views on firearms go with it.

 

[Avenger29]

Right now I fly a Lear 60 and its a rocket ship. I've seen 13,000+ FPM climb rates. Record is sea level to 41,000 ft in 9:30!!!

I hope that climb didn't cause the passengers to spill any Grey Poupon...

You lucky dog. I get 1200fpm if I am lucky.

Jealous, very jealous...

 

[rrflyer]

I was just happy to have my coffee stay in the cup!

I know what you mean though, I flew aerial survey for a while in 172's.

Flew that 172 from NY to LA and back a couple of times and most of the time I was lucky to see 500fpm.

Still I miss flyin airplanes with propellers on 'em and small GA planes in particular.

I've actually been talkin to a guy about buying his Citrabra but i've also been wanting to buy a piece of land as well.

Wish I could buy both then fly the plane to my land...that would be livin!

 

[grilledcheese]

Got my private pilot's license when I was 18 (a very long time ago) and flew recreationally for a few years until the pursuit of happiness redirected most of my disposable income. I've been both an aircraft and gun nut since I was a kid, and I really do miss flying, but I make do with firearms nowadays. As someone already mentioned, ultralights are a relatively less expensive option for those wishing to fly that I've considered for years, but for now its still blued barrels, bullets and THR.



Jeffrey