Guns and envy

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Bad mouth

So many guns, so little time and money! Ilove them all, i had to give up shotguns and rifles cause of a bad shoulder, so now im into pistols. So far have glock 19c hot weather carry gun, sweat like a pig, 2 kimbers, colt commander, SA loaded, walther p-22, ppks and a new DW razor Back on order. Every gun has its purpose to someone thats the way i feel, if you dont like it dont buy it, I guess they just dont understand. How about sending me donations for Jerrys Kids!!! HA. HA. good topic.
 
I can relate to Bogie's post. I once posted a question about who enjoyed firearms. I was expecting the posts about collecting, plinking, or just admiring, but of course there were several stating that firearms are just tools for self-defense. In a way I pity these people because they are missing out on one of the biggest virtues anything can provide for you...FUN.
I don't care for every firearm or caliber on the market, but that's why the market is as vast as it is today. Something is most likely out there for everyone who is looking.
Bad mouthing a product can come back and bite you sometimes too. Many have posted about Jennings, Bryco, and the others being junk or POS, but I do know of a Jennings .22lr and a Bryco .380 that has served well for many years (and yes both have been shot alot not just tucked away). Most peole who purchase these handguns know very little about the market and feel it is better to purchase something new than used. I've seen posters say that the people should save more money and buy a better model, but we can't count the pennies in others pockets. That compares to saying not buy that Ruger Blackhawk, but save for the Freedom Arms. Theres a big difference in $300 and $1500, but the same rationality applies to the buyers of lesser guns.
Yes I have my favorites and will tell what I like about them, but that gives me no right to degrade your favorite because it doesn't fit my personal criteria.

Sorry about being longwinded, I just wanted to point out a few things.
 
Mr. Ross: Very true words about Elmer Keith. I remember in one article he stated, "I'm in favor of any sport that burns powder." :D
 
Everybody's got their opinions. It's what works for you that should determine how you spend your money, not what Joe Schmoe thinks about it.

Me, I don't understand the huge appeal of the 1911. I've fired several and there's nothing WRONG with them, but I don't feel any desire to own one. I don't care for Glock's just because the grip angle puts me off. Both are fine weapons. OTOH, I'm sure there are people out there who wouldn't care for my P220 or who would kid me for owning Taurus revolvers.

Again, it's your money. It's your hobby / avocation. If you want it, get it.
 
Braindead,

Can you please explain to me how these two statements don't contradict each other?

About the only thing I'll 'badmouth' is junk guns, others seem to think Jennings/bryco..etc fill a niche market for those with smaller pocketbooks, but from my experience with these brands they are useless and no better than having no gun at all. Particularly when there are so many good inexpensive firearms to be had (Makarov for example).
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I think some people put down others firearms because it didn't cost as much as theirs.. so they must demean it in order to not feel like they've overpaid.
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Now, I know from personal experience that Lorcin/Hi-Point/etc. firearms aren't quality weapons. However, your opinion of 'junk' guns and someone else's isn't necessarily the same. Some people (on this very board even) think Mak's are junk, or 1911's, Glocks, SiG's, HK's, etc., etc., etc.. Does that mean they are? To that person, yes, but not necessarily to the next person. However, to make two seemingly contradictory statements within the very same thread no less, really impairs my ability to take your opinion seriously. On the face, it appears hypocritical. Maybe I'm totally off base, and if I am, I apologize, just thought I'd share my viewpoint.


Frank
 
There are folks who see firearms as _only_ for defense, or _only_ for preservation of constitutional rights, and have a very hard time understanding beyond that... To them, a day at the range is serious - hard work, practice for when it hits the fan... I think that it's sad that they're missing out on so much else that's in the gun culture. Those folks are as lacking as the duck hunters who agree that one doesn't need an AK-47 to hunt ducks with...
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Who says you don't need an AK to shoot ducks with???:D

I had some guys told me the AK was junk and if I bought one i'd never kill as many hogs with it as I did my bolt gun. So course being the shy bashful type I went out and did this...

attachment.php


Course a week later, they had one to, dang ol pieces of junk.:D

The other thing I have found is most antis when you finally get em to the range and they want to shoot, they don't care about that pretty wood on the ol Custom German Mauser action, the don't think the Browning lever action .22 looks like much fun, even the Yugo sks looks sorta drab, but they have to burn off 20-30rds out of the AK. Then I got em.

I think part of our problem is some of us are pretty close minded about alot of issues, some of it comes from the continous assualt we see on our rights and lifestyle, but we adopt and attitude of "I'll trash em all to protect mine." From what I have gathered that is the very attitude that trashed Australia a few years back. We are seeing it here more and more.

I've noticed over the past year my collection of guns has dwindled to a few that get shot a bunch, i've weeded out the stuff I consider worthless and just kept a few, but some of the stuff I got rid of, others really like. So why should I trash them for that purchase, it helped advance my own? Just as these guys buying all sorts of stuff you seem to think is junk or whatever, keeps the firearm guys in business, a goal we all should be striving for. I saw one of the new Eos pistols, or something like that, real different design, i'll never own one, but the gunshop says they sell like crazy to young guys and gals. Yet another way it helps us all out, more shooters. Most guys I know don't own more than a gun, maybe two in one caliber, so the only option left to sell guns to the big buyers who have a couple of every kind is to come up with something new. Why should we ever dump on someone for making a living?

I recently bought a Remington Sendero in .270, as soon as I purchased it people starting telling me how I made a horrible mistake, shoulda bought the new short, shoulda bought a .300 mag, shoulda done this or that. Well I had a few thousand pieces of .270 brass around all weighed and trimmed and prettied up, so I figured I might as well get something to use it in. Course I already had a few other .270's. But I made the decision based on information I had.

Buddy bought a Marlin .17, he loves that gun, he has been blasting squirrels with it since he got it. Wouldn't trade it for the world. Will I own one, nope, don't hunt stuff anymore that doesn't hunt me back or at least pose a danger, less i'm hungry. I keep a .22 around for my daughter to get broke in on. But I don't think I ever dogged him for that purchase, what would be the point?

For the sports nuts that have to pick sides, do it on the range and put your pocketbook where your opinion is.:D Otherwise it is just cheap talk. :neener:
 
Ummmm

Is it okay if I say that I don't see the point behind a NAA Mini Revolver chambered in .17HMR?

Because, I really don't...maybe for those crows that get too close?

:evil:
 
"I see your curmudgeon-do training is coming along nicely. What belt are you at now?"

Training?

I am more than honorable curmudgeon-do master, my dear Tams.

I've been seriously burned by the "latest and greatest," "best of its kind" before, and I don't intend for that to happen again.

:cuss: ing Chrysler and their :cuss: ing Ultradrive transmission.

What a pice of :cuss: :cuss:ing :cuss: .

Lee Iacoca can kiss my fat :cuss: .
 
Mike,

Firearms ARE just tools, Majic.
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When I figure out what tasks my Arisaka, Bearcat or .32 Pepperbox are supposed to perform, I'll be sure and start a thread... ;)

Some are tools, some are toys, some are large, cosmoline-soaked postage stamps/antique coins/Hummel figurines. :cool:
 
John Ross wrote:
The reason this bothers me is that I have always felt the gun culture was a "big tent," and given the fact that we're always under assault, it makes NO sense to badmouth parts of it.
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Very well said, I agree 100%.
Had a conference call with my longtime friend / gunsmith, and another gentleman. This 3 rd party was stating he didn't care about mag capacities, the new X frame...all he cared about was his wheel guns and 1100's.

Needless to say I countered with "so until they come after your wheelies and 1100's your going to be complacent?"

Nope, Its a matter of principle with me. I may not participate in a certain type of firearm use, hunting, collecting, or degree of enthusiasm that someone does-- the principle is we share a "big tent" thats being pelted.

About tools, I have a cyl from and old model 19 I use for a pencil holder. My neice, when 2, was more creative...makes real neat patterns in Pla-Doh :p

I think its a matter of principle, but , I am that uncle they warn you about...those evil cyls as toys...:)
 
Some are tools, some are toys, some are large, cosmoline-soaked postage stamps/antique coins/Hummel figurines.
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Thank you for giving me a one-line way to describe my collection. :D
 
all i know is i still love my 332...

and i want to try the 500 but i don't want one

i'd like to try the .17hmr but i dont really want one of those either right now

subject to change

i need a good .45 tack driver, actually, so thats what i'm saving the pennies for

but then again the :cuss: tv is gettiing ready to go...:banghead:

:D
 
Just wanted to throw in my "Amen brother!" to the original post. We, as a community (to use an anti's buzzword to make my own point) are allowing them to kill us with a thousand tiny cuts. United we stand, etc. etc. That's why I joined NRA - I don't always agree 100%, but the sheer number of members means something to politicians come election time.
 
I have gun envy...I envy anyone that has more of them than I do.

And I DO want a .17HMR and a S&W 500 and anything else I can get my hands on. I want them because I don't currently have them. Alot of this will be remedied if I ever get to move back to Texas. My dad told me he is holding a Enfield .303, some sort of shotgun, and a few others for me.

The whole this cartridge/rifle/pistol is @#$% has been hashed out in the previous posts in a much better way than I can argue it.


c):{
 
The closest I've come to the "syndrome" John talks about was when I reposted some material from the sixgunner forums on the massive wrist damage John Taffin has suffered.

I have concerns that some people with ultra-light guns shooting monster power levels are liable to end up in Mr. Taffin's boat, with basically no wrist cartilage left, barely able to shoot 22LR and in constant pain...typing with capslock on because the shift key hurts too much.

Could a lot of full-house 44Magnum in the Scandium cause "more cases of Taffin wrist"? I think it's possible. The possibility needs at least discussing and pondering and I don't regret raising the issue.

That said, I'm not personally sure that the "practice only with the power levels you carry on the street" school of thought is correct. I base that on the massive physiological changes *I* experience under lethal threat - the change is significant enough that it dwarfs almost any possible recoil difference. My thinking goes, if the "feel" is going to change that much anyhow, why not practice with 38Spl but carry 357 (or the equivelents for your caliber/gun).

Now, that's MY personal practice, and there are people out there saying otherwise (including most police departments).

Oh yes, one other thing: the reports of Scandium pieces in particular yanking rounds of their shells on recoil and tying up the guns concerns me. I buy revolvers for reliability and the ability to eat whatever ammo is handy or seems neato :D, and distrust anything that makes a wheelgun as ammo-sensitive as most slideguns if not moreso :scrutiny:.
 
"When I figure out what tasks my Arisaka, Bearcat or .32 Pepperbox are supposed to perform, I'll be sure and start a thread..."

Hey, just because a tool may be obsolete, or is used for a different purpose, doesn't make it any less than a tool.

I've got a 2 man 12 ft. cross cut saw that's not seen the trunk of a tree since I got it. It's taken on an added life as a decorative item, but it's still a tool.

I think the only exception to that would be if you were to alter them so that they couldn't be used in the manner in which they were originally intended, such as the old "rifle lamps" that were all the range in the 1950s, and which saw the ruination of numerous fine firearms.
 
You know, I've been mulling this over for awhile now, and John I'm going to have to disagree with the bulk of your message.

People who come here asking questions about firearms come for one thing -- opinions.

I think most people who come here are more than capable of handing an opinion, even if it's negative.

People base their opinions on their own experience, their own wants, their own desires, and their own views of what is right and wrong on many different levels.

Free exchange of ideas, opinions, and experiences, is the entire purpose of a bulletin board system such as this.

Ultimately, what you're suggesting isn't a good thing, it's a bad thing, as it would serve to stifle justifiable criticism and counter opinions.

I think you're really misreading the effect that this all has on the firearms community.

A difference of opinion, with a little controversy thrown in, is a GOOD think in any community.

It fuels discussion, debate, and understanding.

If we simply turn into a bunch of homers, lauding every decision, product, service, etc., as the best thing since sliced bread on a stick, much valuable insight and information will be lost.

Even Elmer Keith wasn't above this.

The comment Elmer made about the 7mm being a "good pest rifle" isn't a compliment. That was his way of expressing a SERIOUS dig against the round.

Elmer also wasn't above expressing his feelings a lot more bluntly.

Around 1977 Remington brought out its 8mm Rem. Mag. At the Remington writer's seminar (I wasn't there, but it was later reported in G&A, and confirmed to me by a half-dozen people who were there) Remington reps were gushing over the capabilities of the new round.

Elmer apparently stood up, was recognized, and only paused long enough to pull his cigar out of his mouth and say "What the hell good is it?" before sitting back down. That was reported pretty widely, and Elmer knew it would be, too.

As far as I can tell, Elmer never gave the 8mm anything even remotely resembling praise in the gun rags.

Well, ultimately, perhaps people can be a little more diplomatic in their responses, but the LAST thing we as gun owners should do is become a bunch of 'homers,' issuing unwavering praise, support, and accolades, no matter what the situation, no matter what the product, no matter who's asking.

In my mind that's a lot worse than being harsh.
 
Mike, I wasn't talking about only this board. This one is much better than many others. Good discussion abounds here, but I do see posts with a lot of negativity about things with which the poster has zero personal experience, and that puzzles me.

Discussion and criticism are one thing. "I had an XYZ and is was a POS because..." are excellent and helpful posts.

"Why would anyone want the XYZ (with which I have no experience whatsoever), I'm announcing to the world that I will never buy one" posts serve no useful purpose IMO.

Re: Elmer Keith. I *know* the hilarious "Good pest rifle" comment was a dig. Elmer believed game animals merited minimum .338 caliber, minimum 250 grain bullet. (I agree, BTW.) That was also the basis for his "What good is it" 8mm Remington comment (although .323" and 225 is getting pretty close to .338 and 250.) Rightly or wrongly, Elmer believed that the 8mm Rem. was doomed to being a slightly better .300 Mag and inferior to the .338. However, if you bought an 8mm and told Elmer it was because you liked long range plinking and wanted something big enough to give good visible bullet strikes at long distances, I am certain Elmer would have given you all sorts of suggestions as to what he felt were the best bullet types and load techniques to achieve this with your 8mm. His primary focus was on hunting utility, but he spent an awful lot of time doing things with guns just for fun or to see what was possible.

In 1977 I brought one of my inventions, a .375-.50 Sharps 3 1/4" wildcat with a 30" Hobaugh barrel on a Ruger #1 to Salmon. I told Elmer I was getting 3400 FPS with a 300 Sierra boattail and 1 1/4" groups at 200 yards. Elmer told me the velocity was way too high for good penetration and that bullet was not a good one for game anyway. I replied that I knew that, but that I didn't intend to shoot any animal with it you couldn't kill with a rimfire. Elmer got a big smile on his face and said "Let's go shoot it!"

Point is, a fair number of posters I see would say "Why on earth would anyone waste his time and money building a .375-.50 Sharps?" instead of "I've never heard of anything like that--tell me more about it."

When people say "Everyone has a right to like whatever gun they want" the hair on the back of my neck goes up because when someone *says* it, it sounds like he is generously granting me his approval (which he might later decide to rescind.)

This isn't a life-or-death issue, so don't think I view it as such. It's just that I admire positive passion: "I've been shooting the ABC and I think it's great and here's why", but I see an awful lot of replies like "I'd never buy an ABC and I have no use for it (though I've never even handled one) but I respect your right to make your own choices (even if you're obviously a moron for liking the ABC)." The parts in parentheses are not actually in the posts but come through loud and clear.

Maybe you think posts like the hypothetical reply above constitute "Free exchange of ideas, opinions, and experiences." I don't. I think they're a waste of bandwidth.

JR
 
At the same time, experience comes into play...

Say we've got a newbie get on here, wants to buy a plinker rifle, shoot at soda cans, maybe a little pest control.

Do I tell him to get a .17, or, given that ammo is going to be a bit more expensive, etc., if he goes that route, instead point him toward a "standard" 10/22? Now, I've never shot a .17HMR, but hey, I'd like one. But I don't think that it's the "one gun" for a newbie... Heck - finding cleaning stuff by itself is a chore... (assuming a Wally World shopping trip).

I guess that it's the sorta thing where folks just get "hammer syndrome." You give a three-year-old a hammer, and everything looks like a nail. If Bubba likes Berettas, he's likely to recommend 'em all over the place, and nothing is as good - Heck, you can even take that 92 elephant hunting! (granted, it might get a big mangled after being stomped on...). Then there's the folks who think that anything smaller than .429 is a wee popgun, contrasted with the folks who think that concealment is everything, who want NAA to make a .17...

I'm taking some folks shooting this coming weekend. They're three female non-gun folks who want to learn. Gonna take a bolt gun (Savage 110 trued by Dorsey in a BR-profile stock, 6BR Shilen Select Match barrel by Billy Stevens, stuffed with some of Bart Sauter's finest - oh yeah, and it's pretty - painted with that color-shifting paint...), a 10/22, a 1911 with one of Jon's tops in addition to the .45, an 8" Python with .38 loads (and some .357s...) and a Winchester in .357. Wendy will be bringing a scoped AR... It'll be fun, and hopefully they'll get a taste of a lot of different things...
 
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