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guns kill more people they werent supposed to kill, than stop or defend against crime

Discussion in 'Legal' started by wacki, Dec 3, 2006.

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  1. Nitrogen

    Nitrogen Member

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  2. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Buckets? Does that include swimming pools or not? I have to ask because if more children drown in 5 gallon buckets then that really would be a fun statistic to quote.
     
  3. up_onus

    up_onus Member

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    I AM ALWAYS SUPRISED....

    if you want to "debate" gun crime or anything about guns....
    its so simple???
    all you have to do is look at this website -
    www.gun-facts.info

    its fantastic, he sites his references, gives statistics....
    you would be ONE STEP AHEAD of the anti gunners....
    just pull up the page, or download it, or print it...

    its puzzling that more people dont post this fantastic reference.
     
  4. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

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    for self defense of the older ladies at my church I suggested the simple but humble hat pin. Jam a 3 or 4' needle to the bone into someone they'll let go
     
  5. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

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    those kind of "debates" are why I come here instead

    That question is typical of what you would see on unmoderated forums like craigslist or myspace, forums so full of trolls and true idiots that reasoned debate is impossible.
    The Moderators here are people who seem to have an idea on debate and legal/constitutional issues and our members (except for the 1 or two I dislike)
    are 100 times smarter and aware then your typical myspacer/craiglister dolts.

    It's useless to try and reason with some people, your efforts are better spent getting him really drunk on election day so he doesn't go and vote.
     
  6. Deanimator

    Deanimator Member

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    Buckets. Pools are entirely separate.
     
  7. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Source?
     
  8. wacki

    wacki Member

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    I hate these arguments. Lots of reasonably smart people are ill informed. The smoking-cancer link, ozone hole, abortion-breast cancer link, anthropogenic climate change and many other areas of science are frequently twisted beyond belief. If the facts are on our side you should dish out the facts. A simple link is all you need. If you can't do that then you are likely on the wrong side of the debate.

    For those that gave me this link:

    http://www.gunfacts.info/

    Thankyou. Thankyou very much.
     
  9. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    Source?


    For infants, maybe.
    link

    This table, from this 1995 data link, says
     
  10. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Librarian,

    Thanks a lot. 26 deaths a year in buckets. That's not a lot. I take it this is only for accidental shootings of children under the age of 5. Over the age of 5 accidental shootings is something entirely different. (currently googling for stats..... )
     
  11. wacki

    wacki Member

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    heh, found it on that PDF

    Fact: In 1993, there were 1,334 drownings and 528 firearm-related accidental deaths from ages
    0-19.


    So ya. It's only for 5 and under.
     
  12. hurrakane212

    hurrakane212 Member

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    You are more likley to shoot someone you know...

    Of course you are more likely to shoot somone you know (someone you "love" claim the anti's) than someone you don't.

    You are also drastically more likley to be raped, murdered, assaulted, battered, etc by some one you know.

    So have your friend define "some one that wasn't supposed to be killed" because if that means "stranger" he's got another thing coming.~Nathan

    Sources below

    Myth: Rape is only committed by strangers.
    TRUTH: Two-thirds of rape victims report a prior relation with the offender. In 2000, about 80% of rape or sexual assault victims stated the offender was a boyfriend or girlfriend, other relative, a friend or an acquaintance.

    Source: http://www.healthservices.eku.edu/mars/menulinks/myth.php

    Prevalence of Domestic Violence

    * Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend per year1 to three million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year.2
    * Around the world, at least one in every three women has been beaten, coerced into sex or otherwise abused during her lifetime.3
    * Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.4
    * Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996.5
    * Thirty percent of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.6
    * In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner.7
    * Intimate partner violence is primarily a crime against women. In 2001, women accounted for 85 percent of the victims of intimate partner violence (588,490 total) and men accounted for approximately 15 percent of the victims (103,220 total).8
    * While women are less likely than men to be victims of violent crimes overall, women are five to eight times more likely than men to be victimized by an intimate partner.9
    * In 2001, intimate partner violence made up 20 percent of violent crime against women. The same year, intimate partners committed three percent of all violent crime against men.10
    * As many as 324,000 women each year experience intimate partner violence during their pregnancy.11
    * Women of all races are about equally vulnerable to violence by an intimate.12
    * Male violence against women does much more damage than female violence against men; women are much more likely to be injured than men.13
    * The most rapid growth in domestic relations caseloads is occurring in domestic violence filings. Between 1993 and 1995, 18 of 32 states with three year filing figures reported an increase of 20 percent or more.14
    * Women are seven to 14 times more likely than men to report suffering severe physical assaults from an intimate partner.15

    Domestic Homicides

    * On average, more than three women are murdered by their husbands or boyfriends in this country every day. In 2000, 1,247 women were killed by an intimate partner. The same year, 440 men were killed by an intimate partner.16
    * Women are much more likely than men to be killed by an intimate partner. In 2000, intimate partner homicides accounted for 33.5 percent of the murders of women and less than four percent of the murders of men.17
    * Pregnant and recently pregnant women are more likely to be victims of homicide than to die of any other cause18 , and evidence exists that a significant proportion of all female homicide victims are killed by their intimate partners.19
    * Research suggests that injury related deaths, including homicide and suicide, account for approximately one-third of all maternal mortality cases, while medical reasons make up the rest. But, homicide is the leading cause of death overall for pregnant women, followed by cancer, acute and chronic respiratory conditions, motor vehicle collisions and drug overdose, peripartum and postpartum cardiomyopthy, and suicide.20

    Health Issues

    * The health-related costs of rape, physical assault, stalking and homicide committed by intimate partners exceed $5.8 billion each year. Of that amount, nearly $4.1 billion are for direct medical and mental health care services, and nearly $1.8 billion are for the indirect costs of lost productivity or wages.21
    * About half of all female victims of intimate violence report an injury of some type, and about 20 percent of them seek medical assistance.22
    * Thirty-seven percent of women who sought treatment in emergency rooms for violence-related injuries in 1994 were injured by a current or former spouse, boyfriend or girlfriend.23

    Domestic Violence and Youth

    * Approximately one in five female high school students reports being physically and/or sexually abused by a dating partner.24
    * Eight percent of high school age girls said “yes” when asked if “a boyfriend or date has ever forced sex against your will.”25
    * Forty percent of girls age 14 to 17 report knowing someone their age who has been hit or beaten by a boyfriend.26
    * During the 1996-1997 school year, there were an estimated 4,000 incidents of rape or other types of sexual assault in public schools across the country.27

    Domestic Violence and Children

    * In a national survey of more than 6,000 American families, 50 percent of the men who frequently assaulted their wives also frequently abused their children.28
    * Slightly more than half of female victims of intimate violence live in households with children under age 12.29
    * Studies suggest that between 3.3 - 10 million children witness some form of domestic violence annually.30

    Rape

    * Three in four women (76 percent) who reported they had been raped and/or physically assaulted since age 18 said that a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, or date committed the assault.31
    * One in five (21 percent) women reported she had been raped or physically or sexually assaulted in her lifetime.32
    * Nearly one-fifth of women (18 percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives; one in 33 men (three percent) reported experiencing a completed or attempted rape at some time in their lives.33
    * In 2000, 48 percent of the rapes/sexual assaults committed against people age 12 and over were reported to the police.34
    * In 2001, 41,740 women were victims of rape/sexual assault committed by an intimate partner.35
    * Rapes/sexual assaults committed by strangers are more likely to be reported to the police than rapes/sexual assaults committed by “nonstrangers,” including intimate partners, other relatives and friends or acquaintances. Between 1992 and 2000, 41 percent of the rapes/sexual assaults committed by strangers were reported to the police. During the same time period, 24 percent of the rapes/sexual assaults committed by an intimate were reported.36

    Stalking

    * Annually in the United States, 503,485 women are stalked by an intimate partner.37
    * Seventy-eight percent of stalking victims are women. Women are significantly more likely than men (60 percent and 30 percent, respectively) to be stalked by intimate partners.38
    * Eighty percent of women who are stalked by former husbands are physically assaulted by that partner and 30 percent are sexually assaulted by that partner.39
     
  13. wacki

    wacki Member

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    Quick question, now that we know how many children under 5 die in buckets, where is the stats for accidental gunshots for those under 5?
     
  14. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    The posts above are correct, but the mere acknowledgement of this train of thought is just plain old wrong.

    Regardless of statistics, no one should be able to take away the best personal means of defending me and my family.

    Statistics would ban guns, cars, buckets, swimming pools, pointy sticks, blunt objects, slippery floors, tall buildings and getting out of bed in the morning. And going to sleep at night.
     
  15. repo

    repo Member

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    A gun is supposed to kill whoever it is pointed at!!! If it's pointed at yourself or a friendly then you have violated a primary safety rule!

    Are we to include wars in your friend's argument?
     
  16. Nio

    Nio Member

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    Factual arguments asside, let's assume that it's true that guns kill more people than they 'save'. OK. What then?

    There are LOTS of things that kill more people than they save. Automobiles, swimming pools, skis, motorcycles, cigarettes, alcohol...MANY things.

    So what do we do about those things? Anything?

    The lie of those kinds of arguments is that they are about THINGS, and things have no moral agent - only people do.

    Nio
     
  17. jwalk

    jwalk Member

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    That may be the case just for argument's sake, but if it wasn't for a gun my wife would most likely not be here. Ask her if she's willing to give up a gun when I might not be home and it's just her and our daughter. Should she be required to beat off an intruder with a baseball bat or kitchen knife? Should your friend's wife be expected to do the same? Oh and that probably won't happen can't be an answer. We thought the same once apon a time.
     
  18. Desk Jockey

    Desk Jockey Member

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    Take that twisted statement and put your own interpretation on it in your reply:

    "In other words, more innocent people are killed by armed criminals than criminals are killed by armed citizens. Sounds like a good reason for all citizens to have a gun and know how to use it."

    If he disputes your interpretation, tell him to produce the study or statistics so you can both determine the validity of the statement.
     
  19. duckandcover

    duckandcover Member

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  20. bg

    bg Member

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    When you find out, let me know..
    Where are these wondrous weapons that take it upon
    themselves to kill and how do these inanimate tools do so ?
    Please enlighten...
     
  21. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    Nio

    And the interesting thing about THAT WHOLE LIST is that NOT ONE of those items has "self defense" as its purpose.

    So . . . just . . . to . . . be . . . painfully . . . obvious . . . guns . . . DO . . . have . . . that . . . purpose.

    Yes, well, we all understand that pools kill many more kids than guns do, but we don't worry about pools, because no one is likely to resist tyranny with a pool.

    So you can see that, clearly, pools are okay and guns are bad. Right?
     
  22. Librarian

    Librarian Member

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    WISQARS says
    1999 . . . . . . 12
    2000 . . . . . . 19
    2001 . . . . . . 15
    2002 . . . . . . 12
    2003 . . . . . . . 7
    2004 . . . . . . 15

    Accidental shootings of anyone are quite rare.
     
  23. patentmike

    patentmike Member

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  24. gyp_c2

    gyp_c2 Member

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  25. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    "If having a gun saves even one life..."

    It's for the children, you see......
     
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