Guns Of The Future

[MikePGS]

Not sure if this has been discussed on here before (probably has, but it didn't immediately come up in a search) but what do you think is in store for us firearm wise in the future? I know that a lot of PD's are trying to get nonlethal weapons (that occasionally kill people), but I personally doubt that they will ever go entirely nonlethal, particularly the military. Being a fan of science fiction, there have been a few interesting suggestions, such as William Gibson's gun that simply fires a hail of flechettes, or his other gun thats a dart gun filled with shellfish poison, which is lethal enough to kill if it hits anywhere on the body. Personally i think in 100 years, there are still going to be people that carry 1911's chambered in .45 (if we are still "allowed" to that is), but what other calibers might become more popular? Might there even be a new caliber that bridges the gaps that currently exist (Is there really a need for something like say a .43 automatic?)? I'd like to hear any and all of your theories

 

[45shooter]

I think we will see smaller caliber/projectile at much higher speed.
Something like .17 caliber/25gr at 5,000+ fps from a pistol.

 

[quatin]

Rail guns

 

[Tommygunn]

Or maybe NO projectiles????

 

[quatin]

You know what would be cool. If they get energy storage so high that a cell phone can carry megawatts of power. Then you attach a directional antenna and you can use it as a RF gun. iPhone 4.0

 

[Ian]

I think that a lot of the new technology will revolve around optics, rather than guns themselves. Imagine a scope with a built-in laser rangefinder - it displays your range in the reticle, or better yet, automatically dials in the proper elevation for your load.

Improved night-vision devices, and rifle optics that can be used both in the dark and in bright daylight.

That sort of thing.

 

[Jim Watson]

Ian - Elcan will cheerfully sell you an optical aiming device - hard to call it a scope - that does all of that except automatically transfer the lasered range to the elevation setting. Burris and Bushnell (looks like the same unit with appropriate trademark) have a less expensive version. I figure the elevation adjustment following the rangefinder reading automatically will be along next SHOT Show.

Jeff Cooper, of all people, envisioned the Husqvarna gas operated pistol (ring piston like Wildey) used to fire "a .17 caliber projectile at Mach 3 that would burn through any feasible body armor." Hmm, sounds like a Five seveN grown up, doesn't it?

Hail of fletchettes? It will have to be a vast improvement on the novelty shotgun shell of the type.

The CIA has a shellfish toxin dartgun. The little projectile so small as to feel like a mosquito bite. Not much range, and several minutes to kill, so no real "stopping power."

A personal beam or acceleration weapon waits on electrical power storage at higher density than gunpowder, with a long way to go.


I remember the SF story with a cheap SMG sold in blister pack with built in loaded magazine. Shoot 40 rounds and discard.

I read the SF and have a hard time visualizing what it would take to make smallarms radically different from the present internal combustion engines.

 

[MikePGS]

Hail of fletchettes? It will have to be a vast improvement on the novelty shotgun shell of the type.

I think it was something more along the lines of what they call a needle gun. In the book (Neuromancer I believe it was, that or something else by Gibson) Molly Millions has one and basically just unloads on some guys face. I looked into it a little bit and curiously enough i guess Steyr built something along the lines of this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steyr_ACR

 

[GunTech]

Right now, development money is being spent on 'smart projectiles' Derivatives of the XM-25, XM-29 SABR and similar weapons are seen as the future. Current weapons, and even science fiction directed energy weapons are linear. Smart projectiles can attack targets behind cover, inside building, etc.

The next step beyond the surrent crop of smart projectiles will be the autonomous projestile - rounds that not only detonate at specific locations, but ones that can fly around corners, or follow the target anywhere they go. Given the number of new sub-minitaure ROVs, it no longer seems like such a stretch.

YMMV

 

[jt1]

Caseless ammo.

 

[DavidVS]

Caseless ammunition is definitely a significant futuristic idea. Once we overcome the engineering constraints to shoot bullets fast enough using electronically ignited gas the world of pistols will dramatically change.

Sonic weapons are currently being developed. It will be a long time before these are pistol-sized but once that happens they will make current taser technology largely obsolete.

How bullets expand, whether they fragment, and if they have toxins are currently based more on legal issues than engineering constraints.

 

[benEzra]

The Steyr ACR article was interesting--4750 fps!!!

Speaking of velocity, you know what I think would be neat--TOTALLY impractical, but neat? A .17-20mm or .22-40mm light gas gun.

Firearms are limited to about 6000 fps or so (less in practice) because the mass of the gas molecules limits how fast they can accelerate, and therefore how fast they can push a bullet; it doesn't matter how light the bullet is or how large a charge you use, you eventually hit a limit around 6000 or so fps.

Light gas guns get around this by using a propellant to accelerate a large-bore piston instead of a projectile; the piston pushes a light gas (usually hydrogen) ahead of it, which pushes a lightweight projectile out of a much smaller bore than the piston. Velocities approaching 20,000 fps are possible with that approach.

The thing is, light gas guns are usually one-shot deals, and take a long time (minutes? hours?) to reload. But I realized that you could make a light gas cartridge gun in theory...

Think 20mm case with zero body taper, necked down at the very front to hold a lightweight .17 or .22 caliber projectile, with a 45-degree, really thick shoulder. Fill the front 3/4 of the case with hydrogen or helium and a good case mouth seal, back half is filled with fast-burning powder, with a lightweight H-section aluminum piston separating the powder from the hydrogen, and possibly a diaphragm up front behind the bullet to keep the hydrogen contained until you fire the cartridge (and help build pressure prior to projectile movement). Everything works just as in a regular gas gun, just inside a cartridge case; you could set it up so that the piston swages down when it hits the shoulder, braking the piston so you don't rupture the front of the case. Kablooie, 10,000 to 15,000 fps, and using a high-BC fin-stabilized dart, it'd be the bee's knees for LOOOOOOOOOOOONG range plinking...

You could probably scale it up to fire a big dart from a 125mm case or something--maybe a hypervelocity tank gun--who knows.

 

[Elm Creek Smith]

There were anti-tank guns used in WW2 that had "squeeze-bore" barrels. They used a cartridge loaded with a projectile that had two bands around it that allowed it to be chambered in, e.g., a 40mm gun's chamber. The rifled bore of the gun tapered from 40mm down to around 25mm. As the projo moved down the barrel, the bands were "squished*," the pressure increased, and the projo came out the end much faster than was possible with a conventional bore. The development of "sabot" ammo made the difficult to manufacture "squeeze-bore" guns unnecessary.

ECS

*(Warning! Technical term!)

 

[akodo]

My predictions have changed over the past 3 years.

Prior to getting engaged in Iraq where even army truckdrivers now are realizing they may need a good rifle to save their lives I saw the trend toward arming all but the most elite with smaller lighter higher capacity guns.

Started with the M-4 for truckdriver types, then we saw the P90, which was smaller, had more capacity, and fired a weaker round. H&K has a PDW that is even smaller firing a very similar round.

I suspected that we were headed toward a gun about the size of a SMG, with 150 round capacity very small projectiles. Basically something to sling lead at the attackers and get them to keep their heads down while waiting for the cavalry (or apache helos) to show up and take out the enemy wiht laser guided missles.

However, I believe Iraq has taught the US army that clear front lines are a thing of the past. All the support troops are very likely to get engaged in combat as well. I believe we are going to see a rifle that splits the difference between the M4 and M16 in barrel length, say 16-18 inches. I suspect it will continue to fire an intermediate rifle round (no return to the full power 7x57, 7.62 NATO, 303 and the like) but I do suspect there will be a switch from 5.56 to 6.X with a little more umpfh, say 1500-1800 muzzle energy rather than the 1200ish of the 5.56.

Also, people in Iraq seem very happy with the extra power the M240 in 7.62 NATO over the M249(?) which is using 5.56 NATO. Back in the day of the M14 it made sense to have your medium/light machinegun chambered in the same cartridge as your battle rifle. It made sense to switch your medium/light machineguns to 5.56 when we went to the M16, but still there were many times when the old M60 would shine, and it's newer m240 brother shines. However, why still bother with 7.62 NATO, the good ol 308, if there is no ammo compatability issues. If we are going to have two classes of machineguns for infantry to lug around, ('light' M249 and 'medium 240')and to mount on Hummers and Tanks, and we are locked into mating one with our current infantry rifle chambering, why not get more horsepower out of the medium one. Why not try and get a few steps closer to the old Ma Duce? If the ammo isn't going to be compatable with the main infantry rifle, AND much heavier whichever way you look at it, (and most of it will be riding around in trucks, or shared between the team) why not come up with a 7.62 NATO II, go with a 30-40 caliber on a bigger stack of gunpowder. Something similar to a 338 win mag or maybe even a little more!

 

[Evil Monkey]

Plasma

An individual weapon that charges electricity and releases it. Around the "barrel" there will be a constantly working device that creates a horizontal "path of least resistance" for the released lightning to travel down through. Therefore, making the weapon able to release lightning in a straight path to hit an enemy.

Another idea I have is the "Problem Solver".

The weapon would fire a small round ball that would stick onto the enemy. Right after, the ball would create a black hole and the enemy and everything on him would be suck into the black hole in a split second, including the black hole itself. Thus, problem is solved.

 

[physics]

I think Ian is right in that optics will become better, as sensing technology is made smaller. The BORS system from Barrett already incorporates range, temperature and pressure into a calculation that moves your crosshairs. Point and shoot out to 2,500 meters. The only downside is the rangefinder is not included in the system, but I'm willing to bet that will be along.
http://www.military.com/soldiertech/0,14632,Soldiertech_XM109,,00.html

I would mostly just expect firearms to become more computerized, rather like automobiles. Quite probably I would expect to see things like screens in your sunglasses that give you video from your scope or muzzle. Maybe I even see firearms moving away from gunpowder. Lasers and em wave types of things.

There are other things that I have thought up, but don't really want to talk about... sorry.

In war, I think that more emphasis will be placed on robotic vehicles. As the technology grows, we should see more robust designs in Remotely Operated Vehicles, and better programming in autonomous vehicles. http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=124333

I also think Evil monkey is correct about Plasma being used in some form or another.

 

[Warren]

You know what would be cool. If they get energy storage so high that a cell phone can carry megawatts of power. Then you attach a directional antenna and you can use it as a RF gun. iPhone 4.0

You'll get easier recoil and better stopping power with the iPhone 4.5.

How about reactive metal bullets? After a certain velocity when they hit the metals are squished* together and explode in the target.


*There's that word again, read with caution.

 

[rkh]

I predict that metallic cartridges will be with us for a long time to come.

Where we will likely see rapid improvements, however, is in improved powder design.

Any 6.8 SPC reloader will tell you now--the bottleneck limiting performance is the powders presently available. In order to keep chamber pressures low, velocities high, and work within available case constraints, we need low-bulk, relatively fast, EXTREMELY progressive propellants. There's nothing out there now that fits that bill (that's sold in canister form).

With the right powder, I suspect that a 16" 6.8 SPC could launch a 115 grain bullet at speeds in excess of 3000 FPS while keeping pressures under 53,500 PSI.

 

[Nolo]

rkh, you stole my post!

No, I was going to say the first step is better powders and a 6.8-like cartridge.
Then we go caseless.
Then we start using "Mission Adaptable" ammo, which is ammunition where the power source (powder, gas, whatever) is kept separate from the mass source (some kind of malleable and quickly solidifying metal) and you can just choose your bullet weights and powder charges on the spot. With a computer on board, of course. But that is pretty far in the future, as the technology doesn't even have a clear path to conception yet.

 

[JamisJockey]

Bah! You're all wrong!

All your guns are belong to us!

Hillary or Obama will collect every gun known to man. They will pile them up and burn them, while singing "Koombaya, my non-denomonated religions or non-religious diety, Koombaya" and holding hands. The ensuing smog will reverse global warming, sending Al Gore back into hibernation for the next 1000 years, or until he can invent another internet.

 

[Nolo]

You're wrong.
I'll kill them all before they do that.
Of course, only if they are directly threatening me or my family...
By taking away all my families guns and thus making it a rewarding thing for criminals to commit hysterical crimes.

They won't get away with that sort of thing.

 

[lgsracer]

Check out the SciFi book, The Probability Broach by L. Neil Smith it was written in 1980 probably where Gibson got his idea.

http://www.lneilsmith.org/

 

[1911 guy]

No revolutions, just evolutions.

I don't foresee any hard left turns in our technology. I do see more diversity and evolution of existing technology.

A propellant may come along allowing the current velocity threshold to be broken.

New alloys may become practical for both jacketing material and core material. Cost and metalurgical properties can both be overcome/invented. A smaller, heavier bullet with appropriate jacketing could handle the trip down the bore and offer huge advantage over current tech. Velocity goes up, drop goes down, energy retention would be awesome.

Integrated weapon sights. Laser reads the range, moves reticle in sight picture to compensate for drop. Coupled with the first two I mention, extreme ranges would become routine with the proper rests and a trained
marksman. Several miles may be do-able. With no arty.