Guns registration/tracing

[jod78]

I just want to make sure of this. Someone recently was telling me that whenever you purchase a new handgun from say a gun shop, when they go through their procedure of transferring the gun to you, that the serial number on that gun is actually registered to your name and sent to the appropriate government agency. This is totally incorrect, right? The ATF has no database of which gun is owned by which individual do they?

Is that serial number tied to any entity? Perhaps the selling point of origin? If a gun is recovered in a crime, can they trace the gun back to the store that sold it, but not the individual it was sold to?

 

[Amish_Bill]

At the federal level, there is no record kept of successful transfers. (at least they assure us there isn't)

Some states or localities may mandate some form of registration, but that's a local issue, not national.

 

[RNB65]

They don't have a formal registration database, but they will follow the paper trail. If a gun is suspected in a crime, LE will contact the gun maker who will use the serial # to identify where the gun was sold. The retailer will be contacted and asked to search their 4473 forms to identify who purchased the gun. The owner of record will then be contacted to try to identify how the gun wound up at a crime scene.

 

[trueblue1776]

How guns are traced

gun manufacturers have data on what dist. that gun went to. The dist has data on what shop that gun went to. That shop has the name and address of the person it was sold to.

RNB beat me to it.

 

[deadin]

The manufacturer/importer has records of what wholesaler they sold it to. The wholesaler has records of where the gun came from and where it went The dealer has records of where it came from and who it went to, both in their bound book and the 4473's the buyer fills out. The 4473's are kept at the dealers. So, yes, a gun can be tracked to the original buyer if it comes from a FFL holder. It's just that all of the data is not kept in a central location. --[or so they say.]

 

[jod78]

Thanks for the answers. So if you sell a gun to a private party without going through an FFL..what do you normally do to cover yourself? Just fill out a bill of sale?

 

[Old Fuff]

All of this sounds neat, and anti-gunner's who advocate it as a crime-solving procedure ignore the fact that usually when recovered guns are traced they find that the original owner's gun has been stolen. After that there is no paper trail.

 

[trueblue1776]

jod, a clear bill of sale is a beautiful thing.

Though I have a couple that were written on napkins...

 

[News Shooter]

In MA for example

When you purchase or otherwise take possession of a gun you have to fill in a form FA-10 and send into the state. It includes your name the buyers name and all information about the gun.

We don't have gun registration though.

 

[svtruth]

Two points

First, if I were a LE agency or the ATF, I would test the traceability from time to time. Look at my gun, write down serial #, call mfr. see if the gun can be traced to me.
Secondly, if owner pawns it and second party buys it, isn't there a pretty good break in the supposed record?

 

[Car Knocker]

if owner pawns it and second party buys it, isn't there a pretty good break in the supposed record?

The second buyer would have to complete a 4473 at the pawn shop he bought it from.

 

[waterhouse]

Typically, no information on the gun (other than "long gun," "handgun") gets transmitted with your identifying information.

Keep in mind, however, that if you purchase multiple handguns at the same time (or within 5 days of each other), paperwork does get filled out with your name, address, DL #, etc. and the make, model, and serial numbers of the handguns you purchased.

This info. then gets sent to both the local CLEO and the ATF.

 

[JLStorm]

there are also certain ccw's that link the serial number and model of gun to your permit in a database. LAs Vegas, NV does this for instance. I wouldnt be shocked to see more databases like that pop up

 

[elrod]

The FFLs that I trade with assure me that no record is kept any higher up, but(get out them tinfoil hats, boys) I have a hard time believing there is not a computer base with records of at least how many transactions a certain person conducted. There is too much of an opportunity to record this data. Given the free reign given Homeland Security since 9/11, I find it hard to trust them. Look at it like this, why wouldn't they?????

 

[TEDDY]

NEWSHOOTER:Mass requires that but few others do.that atf may inspect a dealers records and in some cases copy the information.now do you think they throw that away.Nancy from goal says the records are screwed up in Mass.with 1 1/2 million licensed owners in Mass missing why dont they go after them??

 

[trueblue1776]

It's seems like a pitifully small thing for the government to keep track of gun ownership.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Registration, if any, is done at the state level. In California (I'm a native and long time resident), when the dealer fills out the state DROS (Dealer's Record of Sale), they put the complete physical description and serial number on this form.

 

[22-rimfire]

It's seems like a pitifully small thing for the government to keep track of gun ownership.

That sounds to me like you favor registration. I'm against registration in any form. It is one of the reasons that I postponed getting a CCW permit in my state as it marks you as owning firearms. The other side to that story is that it would not be very hard for the government to discover that I owned firearms anyway. So, I got the permit and now I don't have to worry about having an illegal loaded handgun in my vehicle or on my person.

If you are concerned that a firearm can be traced to you, then buy the gun from an individual (ie. private sale) in states that allow it. Some don't and that is one of the legislative goals by the gun grabbers. Tiny steps... just have to wait for some horrible shooting event to occur like VT and the public will clamor for it. Oh, private sale at a gunshow...we can't have that. Why criminals may buy weapons that way. Gee, they're criminals what do you expect?

There has been talk of a national database that the ATF maintains in West Virgina. But I really don't know.

 

[trueblue1776]

I absolutely do not favor registration. I think it's silly, like I said.

 

[Jim Watson]

Agree with elrod. If you think the FBI does not know that John Doe bought some kind of gun on April 2, 2002, from dealer no QZY9995, I have a bridge in Brooklyn I will sell you so you can charge tolls on it. Destroying check records is a joke. On us.

 

[SgtRage]

Quote:
if owner pawns it and second party buys it, isn't there a pretty good break in the supposed record?

The second buyer would have to complete a 4473 at the pawn shop he bought it from.

But that would mean that in order to find this out, the ATF would have to go dig through the records of all the pawnshops, rather than just making a few phone calls.

 

[MErl]

or call the person that pawned it (assuming they can be found/bought the gun new from a dealer) and then call that pawnshop

 

[Mantua]

+1 for private sales.