Mexican Police now have access to YOUR gun info

[Rezin]

Ran across this earlier today..........


Mexican "police" will now have access to American Gun owner information. The US government, specifically the ATF has given the Mexican police and other authorities access to gun owner information via the atf's etrace system. The information in this database contains names, addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers, financial data and tagged special level information. The Mexican "authority" would simply only have to indicate that a suspected firearm from the United States was used in a gun related crime to gain access to the database.

The article broke in the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7193487.stm


The ATF supposedly mounted a privacy impact study, which shockingly doesn't mention much about citizen safety, but does acknowledge how misuse of information could jeopardize an investigation. Now Cartels will have access to your information.

http://www.atf.gov/about/foia/pia/privacy_impact_assessment-etrace-pclo.pdf

In the above document the ATF even recognizes this is a threat:
Quote:
...2.3 Privacy Impact Analysis: Given the amount and type of
information collected, as well as the purpose, discuss what
privacy risks were identified and how they were mitigated.
If this information is accessed by a non-law enforcement individual, it could jeopardize an ongoing
criminal investigation and cause personal injury to law enforcement personnel, cooperating
individuals and witnesses.. For the most part, however, privacy risks are minimal due to the fact that
eTrace accounts are given to cleared ATF employees and law enforcement agencies that have entered into
an MOU with ATF. In accordance with applicable appropriations laws, eTrace users can only access
trace data that originated from their agency. In addition, the eTrace system includes the standard HTTP
Level banner on the bottom of each web page which reads, “You have entered an Official United States
Government System, which may be used only for authorized purposes....

http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/011608proj_gunrunner.pdf


http://www.scmagazineus.com/China-h...abases-SANS-research-director/article/104338/

 

[davepool]

That is bad news, why does the Mexican government need that info? If they confiscate a weapon used in a crime it seems a call to the ATF with serial # would suffice as a trace to its origin.Am i to expect that the mexican gangs operating in america will know where i live and what type of guns i own?... no i must be crazy, because there is absolutly no corruption in any of the mexican police agencys and my information could not possibly end up in the wrong hands

 

[george29]

Hmmm, and I thought we beat the Commies and Fascists. Sieg Heil AmeriKa!!

 

[Fly320s]

Don't worry, you can trust our Mexican Police friends with your full name and Social Security information.

What could happen?

 

[SuperNaut]

What info? 4473's?

 

[DENALI]

You thought there was no corruption in the Mexican LE community? Do you after careful thought, think there is anyone or any agency that the cartel's can't infiltrate right here in the USA, up to and including any political leadership position? These are multi, multi billion dollar operation's with reach right into the white house!

 

[Javelin]

Don't worry, you can trust our Mexican Police friends with your full name and Social Security information.

<SARCASTIC UNDERTONE ON>

Yes I hear the Mexican Government has always been above board and there is no such thing as corruptoin in that tightly run ship!

I think Bush & Friends idea of a citizen sell-out was BRILLIANT! And think of all the lives it will save now that Mexico can access the ATF databases. This is a really great country we live in where our elected officials have the privilege to sell out a few citizens' information for the good of a foreign government.

Like I said ealier... BUSH + BRADY = BRILLIANT!

<SARCASTIC UNDERTONE OFF>

 

[AZ-K9]

Being a user of the Etrace system I can tell you I don't like the idea of Mexicans having access.

They have no power to enforce any laws in the states, and I cannot find a reason they would really need access.

And if they have the same level of access as I do, yes they have access to soc security numbers etc, essentially everything on the 4473.

 

[BikerRN]

I know why they are doing this, but I've seen better ideas come out of the "suits" in Washington.

For those that have the ability, buy your guns from a friend in a Parking Lot without any paperwork. In short, buy used from a friend. This is legal in some locales, not in others. I imagine it will be illegal everywhere soon, put there is no paperwork when done this way, so no info to our Mexican "friends".

BikerRN

 

[SuperNaut]

And if they have the same level of access as I do, yes they have access to soc security numbers etc, essentially everything on the 4473.

I thought that the info on 4473's never left the possession of the dealer? What database are they talking about here?

 

[DENALI]

You've seen better idea's come from the suits? Like Dubai port's? Dubya's summertime amnesty push? How about that Chinese truck factory in Mexico under the auspices of NAFTA? Yeah, were in good hands..............

 

[Soybomb]

Being a user of the Etrace system I can tell you I don't like the idea of Mexicans having access.

They have no power to enforce any laws in the states, and I cannot find a reason they would really need access.

And if they have the same level of access as I do, yes they have access to soc security numbers etc, essentially everything on the 4473.

I'm a little confused then, where is the data coming from? 4473's aren't routinely entered into any database. The OP makes it sound like they have a browseable database of americans and their guns but if you have to put in a serial number and a manufactuer and have the ATF do a trace on it, it seems like a system that would be much harder to abuse.

the eTrace system includes the standard HTTP
Level banner on the bottom of each web page which reads, “You have entered an Official United States
Government System, which may be used only for authorized purposes....

This sounds like as great a protection mechanism as the assurances that the american community census data would not be abused.

 

[El Tejon]

SuperNaut and Soybomb, 4473s from several sources (retired FFLs, various federal programs such as Operation Forward Trace or the Pittsburgh Project, admin reviews, criminal investigations) are computerized and kept at ATF in West Virginia. ATF admitted this on national television back in '95 and in Congressional testimony. ATF working with other federal agencies, FBI, DEA, etc., have continued to computerize all the records that they can.

The potential for abuse in this scheme is unlimited.

 

[DENALI]

Don't tell me there's folks who actually include the SSN on the 4473?

 

[davepool]

What a novel way to confiscate guns, give our personal information to a foreign government and let them do it. Let the home invasions begin!....

 

[Soybomb]

SuperNaut and Soybomb, 4473s from several sources (retired FFLs, various federal programs such as Operation Forward Trace or the Pittsburgh Project, admin reviews, criminal investigations) are computerized and kept at ATF in West Virginia. ATF admitted this on national television back in '95 and in Congressional testimony. ATF working with other federal agencies, FBI, DEA, etc., have continued to computerize all the records that they can.

This directly contradicts what I've heard from other people that say traces often dead end and the paper work is lost in an ATF warehouse where boxes of 4473's go to die.

for example
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-252469.html

...I went out of business in 1994 and have since then received trace calls on a couple of firearms that I have to refer them back to their records division since I no longer have the bound book records of these sales anymore, they do.
They traced the guns from manufacturer to distributer to dealer,(Me), but could go no further.

It seems like a very large undertaking to try to input so much handwritten data on forms that aren't really designed for computer entry...

 

[SuperNaut]

Don't tell me there's folks who actually include the SSN on the 4473?

Why not? You have to put your name, address, and phone number on there anyway. You think the government can't find you if they don't have your SSN on this one form?

I'm not being snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

 

[takhtakaal]

Don't tell me there's folks who actually include the SSN on the 4473?

Who are you kidding? Here, unless you give them the SSN, there is no transaction on pistols whatsoever. No digits, no gun.

 

[george29]

Hypothetically, if I sold all my weapons, I would still show up on the list because I once owned a legal weapon and in my state a FTF does not need to be recorded, so exactly how is this to work? Why does the Mexican authorities need this info exactly? Is this another small but significant move toward the North American Alliance?

 

[El Tejon]

Soybomb, not in the criminal investigations I have been involved in. To date I have yet have had a dead end on an ATF trace.

However, yes, the national gun database is incomplete but ATF continues to do what they can toward national registration.

 

[DENALI]

The SSN can be used to trace us far more effeciently then name, address and phone number, thats the idea of the SSN, it's static....Where do you reside that they demand your SSN to exercise your rights?

 

[SuperNaut]

If they are using any search algorithm's developed in the past 10 years, it makes absolutely no difference.

 

[DENALI]

By all means update me as to these modern "algorithms"! Further, anyone still listening, take heed, you do NOT have to include your SSN on form 4473. It's a voluntary inclusion................

 

[SuperNaut]

Any algorithm that incorporates probabilistic Bayesian inferential logic. Google would be a good example.

 

[gbran]

SS#'s are optional on 4473's. Don't add then in the future.