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GunVault Circular lock at risk?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by KAR120C, Sep 21, 2004.

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  1. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    My police department just forwarded the following info to me:

    "For those that haven't already heard:

    News broke last week that it is possible to defeat several kinds of Kryptonite bicycle U-locks with a Bic ballpoint pen. Many bike shops removed Kryptonite locks from their shelves. Kryptonite has acknowledged this problem and will be offering customers who purchased locks since 2002 free replacements under some conditions. Also, customers from earlier than 2002 will be able to get big discounts on replacements.

    > From what I've been able to find out so far, other lock manufacturers aren't having this problem. More info is available at www.bicycleretailer.com/"

    How is this relevant to guns??? Well my GunVault pistol safe has a circular key that looks identical to my bike locks. I'm wondering if it can be as easily defeated. Does anyone have any info on this?
     
  2. dav

    dav Member

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    Try a 'net search... all I've heard so far is that someone posted a video of them doing it is how the news broke.

    I have such a lock, but haven't tried the Bic Trick yet. Will soon.
     
  3. pytron

    pytron Member

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    I was going to post the same question when I found out about this vunerability.

    I tried the bic trick with one of my bike locks (not a Kryptonite), it does work. Took me about 5 minutes to pop it open. My other U-lock has a slightly smaller cylinder and I was unable to get it to pop. Basically, any cylindrical lock is vunerable to this method, but some are easier to do than others, depending on the cylinder diameter. Bic pens work for Kryptonite locks, but I have no doubt that other disposable pens would work for the appropriate size cylinder.

    I checked my gunvault and it is about the same diameter as the lock that I was able to pop. I was unable to attempt it because I've used up all the bic pens in my house (they get destroyed in the process). I will get another pen and give it a shot sometime this week.

    If you have a gunvault at home, give it a shot. It won't damage the locking mechanism. The worst thing that could happen is that you get a sore hand from trying it.

    The trick, for me, was to pound the pen down using a rubber mallet and then just spin it in the appropriate direction (as if you were turning the key). Just keep spinning. If the pen slides out, just push it down again. Once you do it the first time, the subsequent attempts (with the same pen) are even easier.

    -Pytron
     
  4. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    Well this is just lovely. I only bought the damn thing a few weeks ago, and now it is essentially worthless.

    I suppose one could disable the lock with super glue or some such, but that defeats the purpose of having it as a fall back for failure of the electronic lock, making it more likely that you'd have to break into your own safe some day.:fire:
     
  5. Highpower1

    Highpower1 Member

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    Did you try it yet Kar?
     
  6. bofe954

    bofe954 Member

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    I have a cheapy stack on safe with the round lock. I think it would be more difficult to open than the Krypto locks since you have to actually move the "bolts" out of the way with the force you apply on the key. I don't think the plastic pen would be capable of this.

    For those who wish to experiment- my fiance popped open her master brand bicycle lock with a bic, now it no longer functions. I don't now what happened to it. You may want to wait to experiment until you have a replacement.
     
  7. chink

    chink Member

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    I did it with a Kryptonite KryptoLock about a week ago when the news first broke. It works... like a charm. But better that I circumvent the lock at home then someone else circumvent the lock when I am not at home.

    My lock doesn't work anymore either. well... it would work if I could get the key back into it, but if you look at the key, there is a little tab (at least the Kryptonite ones have it) and what happens is that the when you use a bic, there aren't tabs and so the inner slot moves independently of the outer slot so now the key won't fit any more

    One way to correct this (ifyou have multiple keys) is to file down the outer tab

    I hope that makes sense.
     
  8. pytron

    pytron Member

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    If you can't get the key back in, tile down the tab on the key. Who cares if your key works anymore? I won't be using my easily subverted U-lock out in public anymore, that's for sure.

    -Pytron
     
  9. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    I guess for now I'm not going to try the pen trick on my GunVault. I'm afraid it will jam open, which would make it (slightly) less usefull than it is now. At least now it prevents young children and uninformed adults from gaining access.

    Meanwhile... I'm going to try contacting GunVault to see what they recommend. I'm also increasing the priority of my task to get a full sized gun safe. My main hang up is whether to settle for a security container that looks like a safe(~$600-800) or to go all the way with a true safe (~$3,000). I don't have any rare or terribly expensive guns, and don't expect to in the future (though I suppose I could change my mind on that), so I'm much more worried about theft than fire. Any advice?
     
  10. carpettbaggerr

    carpettbaggerr Member

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    Go with the true safe. Brown has a 60x28x26 safe with 1/4 inch steel walls and a 1/2 inch thick door for $1500. And they've got bigger safes for less than $2500. Delivery will increase the cost somewhat, but I don't see spending $800 for sheetmetal. 12 gauge steel won't keep a crackhead out for long, let alone a determined pro.

    http://www.brownsafe.com/gun_safe.html
     
  11. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Did I miss it? I can't find any fire ratings for Brown safes...

    Sawdust
     
  12. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Does anyone know why/how this works, or am I the only one?

    This is old, old, old news. Think MIT lockpicking guide old.
     
  13. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Fella's;

    I'm a professional locksmith, who specializes in safe sales. For those of you who have done the pen thing & their lock no longer works, two choices: 1. Take it to a locksmith, my shop will do the repair for about $7.50 - 10.00 depending on the situation. 2. Just buy a new Ace/Chicago barrel lock from a locksmith. We charge $15.00 for a new one with two keys.

    I agree with 3rd rail, get a safe, not a cabinet or RSC. I don't sell them without the ability to meet or exceed the U.L. 1 hour fire test procedure. Therefore, mine are going to be more expensive than the Brown mentioned above. But they all also meet the U.L. 'B' or 'C' burglary ratings and are heavyer'n hell. Two guys with an appliance cart are either going to break the cart & make an appointment with a chiropracter, or the thing will tip onto one of them. In which case, it's a slam dunk for the prosecution as well as the broken/smashed whatever for them.

    I'm in the northern rocky mtns. area, but can drop-ship anywhere in the U.S.

    900F
     
  14. Highpower1

    Highpower1 Member

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    I had heard about this before. CB900F is correct buy a real safe and not a cabinet. Your firearms should be protected.
     
  15. chink

    chink Member

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    Its just raking the lock with pen. Its the same way you get past most locks. Its just that the made the diameter just right for a pen. Every key lock can be bypassed by raking its really just a matter of how easy is it to obtain the right tools. In the case of a Kryptonite locks, it was a little too easy.
     
  16. rem

    rem Member

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  17. DougCxx

    DougCxx Member

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    I had an older Kryptonite lock and can't get this pen-business to work.
    With mine, a Kryptonite-4 purchased maybe 5-6 years ago, the diameter of the center post is nearly exactly the same size as the outer diameter of a common Bic pen. In the videos posted online it looks pretty easy to insert the pen, and the end of the pen does not look very much damaged at all--but I can't push a Bic pen onto the center post of mine at all. The end of the pen would end up stretched out quite a bit if I pushed real, real hard I guess.... Or maybe I use the wrong pen? I even tried slicing the pen about an inch, to make sure it gets in, but it still didn't work. The pen says "BiC round stic fine USA"..... <:|
    ~~~~~~~
     
  18. Trebor

    Trebor Member

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    Doug apparently has the M-16A2 version of the forum software with the three-round burst mode.
     
  19. KAR120C

    KAR120C Member

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    Trebor... "three round burst" perfect <LOL>

    CB900F - since a barrel lock replacement can be had so cheap, how about a non-barrel (standard key) lock? Do they make one that would be a drop in replacement for this? I know they can be defeated too, but hopefully they are still able to stand up to a junkie with a ball point pen.

    Thanks for the safe advice. I'm definitely leaning towards the true safe.
     
  20. cidirkona

    cidirkona Member

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    Someone tried to steal my motorcycle (locked with a cable and a krypto) like this a few MOTNHS ago... I didn't realize how they did it until now. I had to file the little tabs off my key and pound it in with a hammer to get the thing open all the way. Luckily, the lock was really old as is, so it didn't turn all the way because it's all crusty and dirty inside.

    -Colin
     
  21. G21dude

    G21dude Member

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    So, to get back on topic...

    Does anyone have firsthand knowledge of whether the lock on a GunVault is vulnerable or not?!?! I'm assuming it is, but no one so far has come out and said "yep, I did it personally and it worked" on an actual GunVault.
     
  22. 6530

    6530 Member

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    CB900F - just IMed you with a few questions.
     
  23. DougCxx

    DougCxx Member

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    -Heh, I don't seem to be the only one. From where I'm sitting, there seems to be about a 120-second delay in posting and viewing today.

    Besides, the ban is over, everything is legal now, right???
    ~
     
  24. CB900F

    CB900F Member

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    Fella's;

    There are some blade key locks that are not pickable, the brand name is Medeco, we sell them. You also get key control when you buy one. You designate to the shop who is allowed to get keys made. Medeco has a proprietary key blank for each shop it contracts with. In other words, if you live in Dallas & lend your key & get it back, you know that even if the guy you lent it to goes to Memphis & tries to get a copy made, the shop there physically can't do it. They might be able to reproduce the cuts, but the key itself won't go into your lock. If Medeco finds out that the other shop did try to cut a key outside their contract, Medeco will void them & confiscate the cutter & stock.

    They aren't by any means cheap. Figure around $100.00 to $150.00 for a padlock & some keys. However, they are VERY good locks. They are available for home doorknobs & deadbolts, camlocks, desks, padlocks & some other pretty esoteric uses.

    They also are incredibly drill-resistant. They can be had with guarded hasps, which makes it tough to get a set of bolt cutters on the hasp. It's not to say that they can't be done by a burglar, but they do have to work longer & harder & make more noise doing it.

    900F
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2004
  25. roo_ster

    roo_ster Member

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    My Wal-mart special Gunvault-like safe has a similar bbl lock. Oh, joy.

    CB900F knows his stuff.

    CB900F is a dealer. I was a user of Medeco & other locks as well as some safes, spindials & the like. I developed certain preferences after using, setting, drilling out, and replacing various padlocks, spindials, & such. I developed strong preferences for Medeco and S&G.

    If you think those barrel locks are an annoyance, just wait until you use one of those electronic spin dials that come on some safes and are used in other applications. Electronic spin dials are of the Devil. I hate them with the white-hot intensity of 1,000 suns.
     
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