H-335 vs. CFE 223

[Palladan44]

A good Ole versus thread here... opinions, casual observations?
Amateur to reloading rifle rounds, and these are the 2 powders I've picked up.
I load 223

I've got me some 55gr FMJ BT w/ cannelure. And RMR 69gr hpbt.s I've loaded up 5 rounds each at the published starting loads for the respective powders/bullets.

After firing the first shots, I'm getting similar accuracy between the 2 powders, with CFE 223 getting about 100fps
more velocity with the +/- an extra 1gr. Of powder (about one-2 grains more at start and finish) I went higher up the ladder to mid range with each and got similar accuracy, and similar performance increases separating the powders by about 1 to 1.5gr and 100 to 150 fps increase in velocity. Just like advertised in the books!!

Accuracy is about .75 MOA at 100yds with the 69gr RMRs and 1" with the fmjs and shooting from my bi-pod (where my heart beat shakes the crosshairs from side to side over a 1" area at 100 yds.) I'd expect the accuracy to be much better than my body can allow, if I were to set the gun up in a lead sled, or something.

The CFE 223 is definitely a louder muzzle blast, and a mild, but snappier recoil than that of H-335.
For all practical purposes, the H-335 appeals to me more so far as it's slightly better for reduced velocity rounds.....these are just feelings I'm getting so far.

 

[Austin Albright]

I've not used CFE 223 but have used H335 forever. 25 grains of H335 with a good 55 grain FMJ bullet is kind of a "holy grail" load.
Seems to work in about any AR rifle I've ever used. H335 is kind of a dirty powder. I'm trying TAC powder now as a H335 replacement. Jury is still out on the verdict.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

CFE 223 is quite a bit slower burning than H335, which would explain the velocity difference, particularly in a longer barrel rifle vs a 16" carbine.

The CFE acronym is for Copper Fouling Eraser. CFE223 is said to keep copper fouling down. I'm told it works, but have no experience with it - I took a pound of it in trade, but haven't used it.

H335 is a powder that has been used for decades in the 223, and will indeed do well.

 

[MakBaba]

My experiences with both powders mirrors the OP. I have gotten some outstanding accuracy with CFE223 and that same 69 RMR so that’s where I use it. I prefer the faster powders, like 335, for the blammo. You’ll see that most people will settle between 24.5-25 with the 55s

 

[Blue68f100]

I've used both powders and prefer the CFE223 over H335. I never could get H335 to give me the accuracy I was looking for. With CFE223 it preforms better as you go up. I ended up a few grains below max. So work on up it may tighten up some more. Depending on what twist barrel you have, your gun may prefer the heavier bullets. I have a 1:10 that loves the 52gr SMK and the 55gr cheap Hornady bullets. My 1:9 twist starts to open up with the 69gr but still <1 moa. The 1:8 would not shoot anything under 60 gr accurately. But loved the heavier 69gr bullets. Every gun is different just need to find what your gun likes.

As far as controlling heartbeat you need to work on that. I'm using 42x scopes on my target rifles and it will greatly magnify it. It's all in the mind set. The more you shoot the better you will become at controlling it.

 

[JEBruns]

I currently use both of those powders in my .223. Mine is a 1:7 twist, 16". I've found the CFE223 to be more versatile/accurate for different weight bullets. I can get great accuracy out of the H335, but only with one or two bullets. When I run out of H335, I'm not sure I'll buy anymore of it.

 

[GooseGestapo]

My experience is that with my two lot#s, I can essentially swap BLC2 and CFE223.
I don’t, but could….
CFE223 is somewhat slower than H335…
I’d buy more CFE223, but not H335. But won’t.
I’ve got a lifetime supply (my life time) of Shooters World TACTICAL, Match Rifle, and Precision Rifle.

 

[BBarn]

Tried CFE223. It was fine, but between the two I still prefer H335.

 

[Palladan44]

Comparing this to pistol powders, Is it safe to say that H-335 is more like a WIN-231 (more versatile, especially with lighter bullets) and the CFE-223 is more like a WIN-572? (More velocity, better w/ heavy bullets, more of a niche powder)

???

 

[Kaldor]

Ive run both.
H335 works, but its dirty. Great for blaster ammo. Didnt see any pressure spikes really, but wasnt running a very hot load.
CFE 223 is a love/hate thing. I hate it. To get any real accuracy from it it seemed I had to run some pretty heavy loads, which in turn during warm weather I started having pretty major pressure signs.

 

[kcofohio]

I have used both powders in 223. Mostly with 55 and 62 gr bullets. I about decided not to buy any more of the H335. But then I realized the versatility of it with some other cartridges. So I picked up 8 lbs of it.
The H335 did good with RMRs 69 gr., using both Hodgdon and Lymans data for Sierras 69 gr. SMK. I haven't tried CFE223 with that bullet yet. But I imagine it will do fine.
H335 dirty? It seems so. After shooting 100 rds, the firing pin channel was sooted up pretty good.

 

[Charlie98]

CFE 223 is quite a bit slower burning than H335, which would explain the velocity difference, particularly in a longer barrel rifle vs a 16" carbine.

That's also my understanding of it, too, although I'll admit to not ever have used CFE223. That would also explain the difference in recoil and muzzle blast the OP saw.

I never could get H335 to give me the accuracy I was looking for.

I'm trying TAC powder now as a H335 replacement.

Same here, x2. H335 is a great 55 or 62grn blasting ammo powder... it's where I plan on burning up the 12# I have on hand. Fooling with 69grn SMK's, I was quite underwhelmed with the accuracy using H335; I got much better accuracy using, of all things IMR4895... but I really don't like using extruded powders while progressively loading 5.56mm... it very often turns into a mess.

I've got 8# of TAC I'm working with, now. It's really worked well in .308... both semi and bolt, and even in my short testers in .30-06 (Garand.) I'll be working with it in 5.56mm soon. My preliminary testers there, with the 62grn Hornady BTHP show some real promise. I'd love to knock H335 off the bench permanently.

 

[bigpower491]

THREE. THREE. FIVE

 

[JCSC]

I run 24 gr of H335 with 55/62 bullets. Seems to work well. Meters great and at one time it was cheap. I usually get minute of golfball accuracy in a few different AR15’s.

 

[Palladan44]

So when we say H-335 is dirty.......
Are we talking Tula or Wolf dirty?
Or any cleaner or dirtier than shooting say LC M193? It's a tough thing to quantify, dirtiness.

In pistol loads, I've been able to get a pretty good grasp on cleanliness. W-231 is Clean.
Unique is dirty.....

 

[JCSC]

I wouldn’t say it’s garbage ammo dirty and I haven’t had any problems cleaning up my BCG. I probably don’t have a good frame of reference for clean burning because I run about a grain lower than most and likely get a full burn.

I found HP 38 to be dirty in my 9mm, but clean in the 380?

 

[Charlie98]

So when we say H-335 is dirty.......
Are we talking Tula or Wolf dirty?
Or any cleaner or dirtier than shooting say LC M193? It's a tough thing to quantify, dirtiness.

In pistol loads, I've been able to get a pretty good grasp on cleanliness. W-231 is Clean.
Unique is dirty.....

I don't consider H335 dirty... it poops where it sleeps, so to speak, so that sort of makes it seem dirty... just the downside of direct impingement.

Unique is not dirty... perhaps not as dirty... if you get it up in the higher ranges of load data... much like a LOT of powders out there.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I don't consider H335 to be particularly dirty burning either. It's a ball powder, and it burns like other ball powders.
I just shoot, and if I need to clean the firearm I do so.

But then, when shooting rifles I'm normally shooting a bolt gun. I don't, and won't, own an AR-style rifle - got my fill of that working for Our Crazy Uncle.
So, a shooting session for me is measured in 10's of shots, rather than 100's.

 

[Lennyjoe]

H335 meters great and is awesome in my 55 gr loads. Load it by the thousands and have no desire to try anything else for my AR’s with the 55 gr bullet.

 

[JEBruns]

Comparing this to pistol powders, Is it safe to say that H-335 is more like a WIN-231 (more versatile, especially with lighter bullets) and the CFE-223 is more like a WIN-572? (More velocity, better w/ heavy bullets, more of a niche powder)

In my experience, I'd say it's the opposite.

 

[2ndtimer]

H-335 was my go to powder until I discovered Ramshot TAC. H-335 seemed more touchy on the top end, and TAC seems more versatile with bullets from 40 grains up through 77 grains. CFE-223 seemed dirtier and accuracy was only so so, and was at its best with heavier bullets. TAC also has performed well in .308 Win. and .338 Federal loads.
If I had to choose between CFE-223 and H-335, I would use H-335, especially with bullets lighter than 65 grains. But honestly, I keep ordering 8 lb kegs of TAC, although, I admit to being tempted by Shooter’s World AR Plus and Tactical Rifle. Yeah, I am frugal, too. One of the reasons I switched to TAC was that I ordered 3 of the 8 pound jugs for $79.99 each many years ago when it was first offered. And it is still cheaper than other options like W-748 or H-335 or AR-Comp.

 

[DMW1116]

I’ve had good loads with both but they behave differently. H335 shoots light bullets well but TAC does better with both 55 gr FMJ and Barnes 52 gr Match Burners. H335 also works well in my 30-30 cast loads.

CFE 223 shoots very accurately in both 223 and 308 but seems over gassed in both, causing enough trouble I don’t use it in 308 any more. It launches 77 gr SMK and &69 gr RMR bullets better than any other I’ve tried though TAC might be worth a shot there too. Between the two I think I’d rather be without the CFE 223 though at my current rate of consumption I have a couple years worth.

 

[Tinker-S]

I use both, but I think H335 is better for my applications. It works OK for me when reloading 6.5 Grendel, and 223, and since I wanted to be gone, I am reloading for my plinker AR more often now. When the last of H335 is gone, I will stop using it. Same with CFE 223. After testing, it did not do anything better than the H335, so, finish it and done!
Dirty rifle does not bother me so much. I kind of like it blasting the music in the garage while cleaning my mess from the range.
I also like TAC. I use it to load 80Gr Match Burners for a 223 to engage targets at 600 yards with good results for me.

 

[Palladan44]

I'm loving how both of these powders meter in my Dillon 550B (now that I figured out the spring return on the powder bar ;-) ) Being able to throw them accurately and consistently to .1 or .15gr or so is well good enough for me.

I've loaded about 500 rds so far with both powders. CFE 223 is definitely more muzzle blast with a more pronounced recoil, but only about 100 to 150 fps faster. Quite interesting.
H-335 is milder shooting, and about the same in accuracy. Not enough difference in performance to feel cfe223 has any advantage over h-335.

 

[JCSC]

I use both, but I think H335 is better for my applications. It works OK for me when reloading 6.5 Grendel, and 223, and since I wanted to be gone, I am reloading for my plinker AR more often now. When the last of H335 is gone, I will stop using it. Same with CFE 223. After testing, it did not do anything better than the H335, so, finish it and done!
Dirty rifle does not bother me so much. I kind of like it blasting the music in the garage while cleaning my mess from the range.
I also like TAC. I use it to load 80Gr Match Burners for a 223 to engage targets at 600 yards with good results for me.

I tried so many times to get h355 to work in my Grendel. Complete fail.

1st choice is Xbr 8208( extinct now )

2nd leverevolution. Good velocity. Bad temp stability.


It’s my first choice for 556. Clean and accurate.

every barrel has a preference.