Float Pilot
Member
I see grade A and Grade B H&K P7s for sale here and there. I assume they are German police returns. Have they been really rebuilt or are they just touched up for re-sale?
Anything to look for????
Anything to look for????
H&K P7s, What's the deal with grade A and B
- Thread starter Float Pilot
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oldironsights
Member
Float Pilot, grade "A" has more original finish than a grade "B".
I bought a grade "B" a few years ago that had much holster wear on the slide & frame, plus some minor pitting on the frame near the muzzle and pitting on the outside of the striker collar.
There was also a small nick on the crown.
I had the pistol disassembled & refinished. I recrowned the muzzle & now the pistol looks great.
Better off with a grade "A" as it will hold a higher value.
Mine is just a refinished grade "B" that will not be worth as much as an "A".
Hope this helps.
I bought a grade "B" a few years ago that had much holster wear on the slide & frame, plus some minor pitting on the frame near the muzzle and pitting on the outside of the striker collar.
There was also a small nick on the crown.
I had the pistol disassembled & refinished. I recrowned the muzzle & now the pistol looks great.
Better off with a grade "A" as it will hold a higher value.
Mine is just a refinished grade "B" that will not be worth as much as an "A".
Hope this helps.
boricua9mm
Member
When HK-USA started bringing in the NDS trade-ins, they said they were being graded based on overall mechanical condition. In reality, there seemed to be no method to the madness when it came to grading these pistols, and any mention of grading criteria is a bit of a joke amongst HK aficionados. I saw Grade A pistols that should have been Grade B, and some Grade B that were clearly Grade A. There were a few Grade C pistols and I was lucky enough to nab one for the paltry sum of $480. As you can see, there is nothing C-Grade about this pistol.
Later on, some guns started popping up that had obviously been refinished. Some were done in some sort of black finish (standard bluing doesn't usually work well on these guns due to the hardness of the steel). Then, some guns were being refinished in mass quantities in hard chrome and nickel slides. There were some sold through HKParts.net that were completely hard chromed. My guess is that this was an effort to move guns that needed a little TLC, as the market was saturated with them and they weren't selling as quickly as you'd expect.
When it comes to ascertaining value, I wouldn't give much credence to the label on the box, but rather the condition of the actual specimen before you. The only thing the Grade sticker will tell you is how much the first buyer paid for it.
Later on, some guns started popping up that had obviously been refinished. Some were done in some sort of black finish (standard bluing doesn't usually work well on these guns due to the hardness of the steel). Then, some guns were being refinished in mass quantities in hard chrome and nickel slides. There were some sold through HKParts.net that were completely hard chromed. My guess is that this was an effort to move guns that needed a little TLC, as the market was saturated with them and they weren't selling as quickly as you'd expect.
When it comes to ascertaining value, I wouldn't give much credence to the label on the box, but rather the condition of the actual specimen before you. The only thing the Grade sticker will tell you is how much the first buyer paid for it.
oldironsights
Member
Damn!
Borica9, your "C" grade looks better than my "B"!
You are correct about the bluing.
Standard Brownells 300 degree bluing did not achieve the dark blue/black finish.
The hard slide is more of a dark plum/bronze color. The frame took the darker blue/black just fine.
Borica9, your "C" grade looks better than my "B"!
You are correct about the bluing.
Standard Brownells 300 degree bluing did not achieve the dark blue/black finish.
The hard slide is more of a dark plum/bronze color. The frame took the darker blue/black just fine.
OP
OP
Float Pilot
Member
Well there was one up here I wanted but it sold two hours before I could contact the seller.
I know when i was looking there were almost all B grade and the finish varied quit a bit. I bought a grade B for way to much money a few years ago and have been offer even more for it when i bring it to the range. It is one of my bucket list firearms so i am not selling but wish a bought 20 of them when i bought mine. Oh and i have not changed the springs or anything mechanical and it has been 100 percent reliable. I didn't understand the hard chromed guns HKparts.net were selling. I did see one and it was beautiful but refinishing a firearm normally reduces the value to below the lowest original finish value to a collector.
Just to clear up some obvious confusion of Grades and appearance
Unlike the often quoted NRA grades, the Grade A, B, and C of the Police Surplus H&K P-7s had little to do with exterior appearance.
The Grade was meant to indicate it's mechanical condition...how it's interior parts looked and fitted. So it is not unusual to see and "B" with more exterior wear than a "C", but it will be in superior mechanical (functional) shape.
You should have seen some of the ones where they ground off the departmental shield on the side of the slide...many of those were "B" guns...and most have been had their surface ground smooth and been completely Hard Chromed (mostly by Fords or Tripp)
Unlike the often quoted NRA grades, the Grade A, B, and C of the Police Surplus H&K P-7s had little to do with exterior appearance.
The Grade was meant to indicate it's mechanical condition...how it's interior parts looked and fitted. So it is not unusual to see and "B" with more exterior wear than a "C", but it will be in superior mechanical (functional) shape.
You should have seen some of the ones where they ground off the departmental shield on the side of the slide...many of those were "B" guns...and most have been had their surface ground smooth and been completely Hard Chromed (mostly by Fords or Tripp)
usp9
Member
As to the question of being rebuilt; thats a tough one. It appeared that little or nothing was done to most P7s, however some were sold with an obviously new gas piston, (absolutely pristine). Other than that rare replacement, there was no refinishing or overall rebuilding.
If I recall, there were some 15,000 P7s brought over those few years of the "Great P7 Dump" and made the otherwise hard to find and expensive pistol obtainable. Most appreciated by those of us that already owned one was the accompaning spare magazine supply that also were made available.
If I recall, there were some 15,000 P7s brought over those few years of the "Great P7 Dump" and made the otherwise hard to find and expensive pistol obtainable. Most appreciated by those of us that already owned one was the accompaning spare magazine supply that also were made available.
boricua9mm
Member
Just to re-iterate my comments about HK's grading criteria being hokie, I have located an old, crummy photo of the internals of my 3rd Rate, C-Grade P7 that was taken when I first took delivery of the pistol. I think this illustrates the point I'm trying to make more succinctly.
Oh, the humanity!
Oh, the humanity!
Madcap_Magician
Member
I had a B-grade that was pristine... except for an ENORMOUS chunk out of the crown. As in, the damage extended for about half the diameter of the barrel.
I haven't seen a used one in my price range for 10 years. Even with the heel mounted mag release (PSP)
kBob
Member
Has anyone seen any of the PSP with the butt mag release lever that pressed forward to release being offered used? My understanding is that there were three different mag releases. The wide one I see on these guns that reminds me of a Ruger Standard Model or Mark whatever .22, then a thin model like on say a Beretta 1934, and finally the lever that was pushed towards the magazine to release.
I understand that all the magazines for the PSP series had the window in the back of the magazine for the lever type realease used in the early German police and military trials even if sold with the roll back butt type releases guns.
Any comments?
-kBob
I understand that all the magazines for the PSP series had the window in the back of the magazine for the lever type realease used in the early German police and military trials even if sold with the roll back butt type releases guns.
Any comments?
-kBob
Madcap_Magician
Member
Dr.Rob said:
Top Gun Supply had B grade PSPs for $500, if I recall correctly, about four years ago. The last of the Saxony guns.
Unless there was a variation of the P7 that I'm not aware of...very possible...they were all pressed forward, until the introduction of the M8 variation.
I don't remember there ever being a magazine release that was pushed to the rear. That was one of the points that Cooper mentioned as an advantage of the the P7
IIRC the original PSP and then the P7 both had the narrow magazine release, which protuded out from the frame, which was pushed forward...in a somewhat milking fashion. All German LE surplus P7s come equipped with this release.
There was a variation, sometimes referred to as the "E", that widened the magazine release to almost span the space between the grip panels, The release was also recessed into longer grip panels which shielded the release.
The only other magazine release was that introduced to accommodate the New Jersey State Police request. This magazine release was the dual paddle type the flanked the root of the trigger guard...this was the P7M8
That explains all the hard caromed ones. I had never seen one with that had the markings ground off.
It is also likely that you haven't seen any with the Departmental Crest intact either
They were just part of the batches that were imported, they weren't discounted...it was just an "As Is" item
It is also likely that you haven't seen any with the Departmental Crest intact either
They were just part of the batches that were imported, they weren't discounted...it was just an "As Is" item
Mine has the NDS and BWB marking on it. If that counts?
Were the Departmental Crest stamped from factory or hand engraved? My knowledge is limited to the few dozen that passed threw the LGSs and what little i have read on the net. I never saw any that had grinding marks on them, and would not have known what a departmental crest was if i did see one.
I only found what the NDS and BWB crest was after i purchased mine.
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Maybe my mind betrayed me.
Maybe it was the New Jersey guns that had the departmental crests milled off...which is odd, as my NJSP M8 didn't have the grind mark
Maybe it was the New Jersey guns that had the departmental crests milled off...which is odd, as my NJSP M8 didn't have the grind mark
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