Handgun Ban passes in San Francisco

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QuickDraw said:
"Californians have ruined my state,don't come here" threads....
Click to expand...
There's a very simple solution to this.

Once you move away from California, stop being a Californian.

Don't try to tell the locals how to do things. Shut up and listen. Watch. Learn. Listen some more. You left California because it didn't suit you anymore. Don't try to import California anything to wherever you move. The locals don't want it. If they did, they'd move to California themselves, because the weather is better and so are the salaries.

After you move, don't gripe about the weather (we all know Cali's is better), the food (yeah, no one does fresh salads like Californians do), or the smoke in public restaurants (apparently the locals like it that way; after all, the restaurants are still in business).

Wait at least five years before expressing an opinion about local politics ... and more than that if you cannot name the mayor & city council people when presented with photographs, or if you can name only the governor but none of his/her staff!

Wait at least 10 years before allowing any sentence that begins, "In California, they ..." to pass your lips. And never, ever, ever begin a sentence with, "In California, we ..."

Follow those rules, and no one will care where you used to live. Break them, and you'll get an earful from the locals. Trust me on this.

pax
an EX-Californian in WA state

California is a nice place to live - if you happen to be an orange. -- Fred Allen
 
MathewVanitas:

Your choice confuses me.

I've never advocated a culture war based on who sleeps with whom. My take has always been that between consenting adults, who you love, how you go about it, or what gym equipment might be involved is none of my business.

As for the other choice, I'll take that one, with the proviso that I think you present it backward:

First convince them that a society founded on minimal government intervention, Life/Lib/PursHapp is best off for all parties involved, etc. etc.

AND THEREFORE,

their views on gun ownership are incorrect and self-defeating.
 
pax speaks true. :p

Yeah I Southern Born and raised, never been to CA either...

We had some travleing nurses once upon a time, one in particular from San Francisco originally. She had worked in NY, Boston, Chicago...

She was just a carrying on about CA and such...

Doctor in the lounge was eating Fried Chicken his wife had made...Suggested she go back to CA if she like it so much - she finally did later on.

Now this Dr. a Thoracic Surgeon, was originally from Canada. I and others had been gettting him "Southernized". His accent was coming right along - he picked up the slang quick [he liked the word "tumped" - used it a lot]. The OR temps were 55*F, "kinda hard to do Southern with a thick tongue" he quipped once...

Miss Prissy from CA - she lost her cool one day and called the Surgeon a backwards Southerner. She never knew he was from Canada...

Surgeons wife - Candadian - sure knew how to "put a scald on fried chicken" - I can attest to this. :D
 
pax said:
After you move, don't gripe about the weather (we all know Cali's is better), the food (yeah, no one does fresh salads like Californians do)....
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Aw, Pax, with much respect for you, I gotta call you on those two.

I like the rain of the Pac NW. Took me a while to grow into it;
but now, I come to miss it when it's late (like this year; climate changing?).

And as for salads, here in OR, we've got fresh organic greens even better than what they grow in CA ...
AND no OR city has yet passed a handgun ban. (Soon as they do, I'll be packing up and heading north ... to BC or AK).

Say, did you know that AK is heating up faster than anywhere on Earth now?

Nem
 
Mr. V, if then I understand you correctly, if I don't believe in an obscure, non court defined, and somewhat madeup viewpoint regarding the 14th ammendment, I am therefore a hypocrite for believing in the second? That is some pretty tough math.
 
My religion and personal views regarding a certain groups of people is that they are wrong/sinning/etc, but the US is a free society based on laws that I shouldn't abridge even if two dudes getting it on makes me ill..."
Click to expand...

I'm not religious, I'm agnostic. I have no problem with people being gay. I have no problem with 2 people of the same sex shacking up in the same house and calling it marriage. I have a problem when 1 group of people hopped up on emotion block vote for a blatantly stupid, ineffective law that violates the 2nd, 5th and 6th amendments despite the logical arguments given by the SFPD and even SF newspapers. Even the mayor of SF said it would be a worthless law, it would probably be overturned and would be near impossible to enforce. Yet they still came out in droves to vote for it.

One ill deed deserves another.
 
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I like the rain of the Pac NW. Took me a while to grow into it;
but now, I come to miss it when it's late (like this year; climate changing?).
Click to expand...
Nematocyst,

Please don't get me wrong! I wasn't griping about the weather, merely repeating the most common gripe. For those who move north from warmer climes, rain is an acquired taste. It takes awhile to recalibrate your "supposed to be" settings from sunny to cloudy for nearly every winter day -- and takes even longer to cultivate the habit of being thankful for sunshine when it appears instead of whiny about the clouds when the sun doesn't appear.

As for salads, you're in town, aintcha? We took the double move of getting out of Cali and out of the city. I haven't seen a decent salad bar anywhere in this county.

pax
 
QuickDraw said:
I'm confused.
A third of the posters want California to fall in the ocean.
The other third say "move".
The final third say"Don't move here commie.":confused:
I've been thinking hard about moving,but when I
read "Californians have ruined my state,don't come here" threads,maybe I'll just say I'm from Canada!:neener:

QuickDraw
Click to expand...

QuickDraw -
It's a long drive, but you're welcome to move to PA. The weather is not as nice, but we have less gov't restrictions on our 2nd Amendment rights.
 
First off, I haven't read every bit of this thread. If I'm doing a repeat of what's already been said, my apologies:

Any California lawyers out there? I read, somewhere yesterday evening, that California state law already proscribes such a city ordinance. Ergo, this vote is merely a symbolic gesture. From our viewpoint, of course, all the negative judgements apply.

Art
 
Art, State law does block them from doing what this proposition says it will do. Of course, the Bill of Rights blocks a lot of what gun control already does, so you know...roll yer dice one this one. Very unlikely to go anywhere, but it makes me nervous that the Libs are the ones saying this. Reminds me of the old "Hey look, Elvis!" and pointing to the left trick while they steal your walet.
 
One, I get the impression that a lot of people against
the SF ban heard that the mayor, the major newspapers
and the police organization came out against the ban,
so they must have figured they could just stay home
and not vote. Lesson: get off your hinny and vote, and
vote often, especially if you think your vote is not needed.
If the silent majority stays home, the active minority rules.

Two, OK it's San Francisco so everyone goes off about
gays. With outfits like the Pink Pistols supporting self
defense rights for gays, I cannot assume that gays are
all anti-gun or that gun owners are all anti-gay. That's too
sweeping a set of assumptions. It's a red herring
issue that takes focus off what should be important
(it's dividing and diverting some of us).
 
I just read about 20 pages of the brief, and I am amazed at the stupidity of the law. If am not a resident of SF, but work there, I CAN have a handgun.

This law was passed to make a statement. I personally think if you file suit, start a petition, file an appeal, etc. which takes up a court's time for frivilous reasons, you should be fined and be at risk of being jailed. The stupid attorney who brings the action should be fined, and a black mark put next to his name in the legal liscense bureau. Three black marks = bingo! you are disbarred.

When this Mayor Gavin Newsome (sp?) violated STATE LAW by marrying gays and lesbians (which I don't really care about by the way), he should have been arrested by State Troopers, put in Irons, and duckwalked out of City Hall. If you want to be civilly disobedient, you should pay a price. Keep it up, the price and level of pain should increase for each infraction. Wanna be Gandhi? Pay the price...

That said, this Proposition H has done nothing but cost the taxpayers of SF and California dollars to dance around an unconstitutional issue. My NRA dollars are going to fight this thing as well. That POs me.

I think there should be some serious smack down for the people who re proposed this ordinance. Jail em, fine em, disbar em, impeach em! Take them down!
 
ELECTION SUMMARY SAN FRANCISCO
UNOFFICIAL RESULTS
DATE:11/09/05 03:17 PM

REGISTERED VOTERS - TOTAL . . . . . 428,481
BALLOTS CAST - TOTAL. . . . . . . . 167,465
VOTER TURNOUT - TOTAL . . . . . . . 39.08 PERCENT

MEASURE H
YES . . . . . . . . . . . . 89,759 57.92
NO. . . . . . . . . . . . . 65,214 42.08

154,973 of the 167,465 who bothered to vote, less than 39% of
registered voters voted on Proposition H. A 58% majority of the
39% of registered voters (less than 24% of registered voters)
decided the issue. And 260,000 register voters did not take the
time to vote pro or con. Please, resolve to get out and vote,
and vote often.

Judges have been known to award court costs and damages in
cases of frivilous liens; politicians should be required to pay for
stunts like passing a law like Proposition H knowing it is in
violation of state law just to "make a statement." You make a
statement with a bumpsticker, letter-to-the-editor or button
on your own dime, not by wasting taxpayer dollars.
 
pax said:
Nematocyst,

Please don't get me wrong! I wasn't griping about the weather, merely repeating the most common gripe.
Click to expand...
Understood, Pax. Very reasonable. I read your comment and responded after one of those 16 hour days (I'm in the process of prepping a new studio and moving into it), so my thinking skills were lax.

As for salads, you're in town, aintcha? We took the double move of getting out of Cali and out of the city. I haven't seen a decent salad bar anywhere in this county.
Click to expand...
Ha. I'll bet. One of those trade-offs. Yet, I'll bet there are probably other things you haven't seen that you don't miss. :)

I almost moved to Portland recently, but couldn't find a suitable studio space, so am staying put in my smaller city. After Katrina, Rita & other disasters, and reading all the SHTF threads on this forum, I'm thinking that was a wise choice.

AND, I don't live in San Fran. Life is good. :D

OK, back to the move. Staining 8-year-old concrete floors is fun! (NOT!) :(

Nem
 
At least the citizens of SF can breathe easy now that they are safe...

I hear the next special election will have a prop to ban freedom, and independent thought.
Matt Vanitas, I agree with you, well said.
One more thought...Do you think that when this ban is found to be ineffective, it will be repealed? Me neither.:scrutiny:
 
154,973 of the 167,465 who bothered to vote, less than 39% of
registered voters voted on Proposition H. A 58% majority of the
39% of registered voters (less than 24% of registered voters)
decided the issue. And 260,000 register voters did not take the
time to vote pro or con. Please, resolve to get out and vote,
and vote often.
Click to expand...

This statement is pointless. Do you really think the election would have turned out differently if we had a higher turnout in SF?! If anything, a higher turnout would have only made it a larger % loss, since nearly every pro-gun person in SF turned out to vote against the measure. Face it, no matter how you slice it, there's no denying that the majority of SF wants to ban all ownership of firearms.

Let this be a lesson to everyone who lives in a city. Eventually, it will happen to you to. It's only a matter of time. The moment you resign yourself to saying "not in my town": it'll be game over before you know it.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. The time to save SF was in the late 60's, but, like a cancer ridden body twitching in the last moments of its broken life, SF is to far gone. Maybe an earthquake will finally lay it to rest, rest in peace.
 
GunNutty said:
Mr. V, if then I understand you correctly, if I don't believe in an obscure, non court defined, and somewhat madeup viewpoint regarding the 14th ammendment, I am therefore a hypocrite for believing in the second? That is some pretty tough math.
Click to expand...

I'm having a hard time understanding why you think my viewpoint of "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" also applying to homosexuals is "somewhat made up"?

However, since you're so into court definitions...let's look at all the court definitions about the second amendment. Federal courts never overturned the federal assault weapon ban. Federal courts haven't overturned various state assault weapon bans. You cannot posess a gun within 1000 feet of a school with few exceptions. Try buying a newly manufactured machine gun...Oh wait, you can't...because a federal court didn't stop the restriction of machine gun sales.

Funny it looks like your precious court definitions seem to think that the second amendment is all about a "well regulated militia" and it can infringe all it wants.

I, however, look to the second amendment and see an important phrase, "the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed". Much in the same way I view "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States" to apply to all citizens, not just a few that we pick and choose. I suppose that viewpoint is as made up as the one I hold about the second...

Maybe your simple math can explain to me how "no state" somehow doesn't apply to Texas. And how violating homosexuals' rights as citizens somehow isn't "abridging privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States".

Until then, court definition or not, these state laws violating the fourteenth are unconstitutional as much as all the laws allowing infringing on the second...
 
pax said:
There's a very simple solution to this.

Once you move away from California, stop being a Californian.

Don't try to tell the locals how to do things. Shut up and listen. Watch. Learn. Listen some more. You left California because it didn't suit you anymore. Don't try to import California anything to wherever you move. The locals don't want it. If they did, they'd move to California themselves, because the weather is better and so are the salaries.

After you move, don't gripe about the weather (we all know Cali's is better), the food (yeah, no one does fresh salads like Californians do), or the smoke in public restaurants (apparently the locals like it that way; after all, the restaurants are still in business).

Wait at least five years before expressing an opinion about local politics ... and more than that if you cannot name the mayor & city council people when presented with photographs, or if you can name only the governor but none of his/her staff!

Wait at least 10 years before allowing any sentence that begins, "In California, they ..." to pass your lips. And never, ever, ever begin a sentence with, "In California, we ..."

Follow those rules, and no one will care where you used to live. Break them, and you'll get an earful from the locals. Trust me on this.

pax
an EX-Californian in WA state

California is a nice place to live - if you happen to be an orange. -- Fred Allen
Click to expand...

LOL, I'm from California and stationed in VA for 3 years now and my friends always joke on me on how i begin every sentence with "This is how we do it in Cali" or "Thats not how it is in Cali". It took me a while but I don't say it as much but I see other Californians talk like that.

Now that I left I';; probably never move back because of housing cost and the fact every gun I've bought I can't bring back to the state. My family still live there so I visit every year and fill up on "real" mexican food.
 
I cannot shake the conviction that a lot of pro-gun
people did not bother to vote in SF because all the
newspapers and the SF cops came out against
Proposition H before the vote. (That's a opinion
and everyone has one.) If the turnout was 90%
or better there would be no doubt. A democratic
constitutional republic where elections are decided
by less than 50% of those elligible to vote is on
very shaky legs.
 
Oleg, I'm at the point where I just might do that. I was in Tennessee many years ago, and was much impressed. You live in a beautiful State.

Best,
Jeff
 
I cannot shake the conviction that a lot of pro-gun
people did not bother to vote in SF because all the
newspapers and the SF cops came out against
Proposition H before the vote.
Click to expand...
That’s the most discouraging thing I’ve read today. If true, it makes it all the more annoying to read gun-totin’ Californians complaining that California is suppressing gun rights “because the NRA won’t come in and fix everything” for them. Jeez, if they “can’t be bothered” to even go to the polls to defend their gun rights, what do they think the NRA can do for them ?
 
pax, I cannot agree more. Please, if any Californians move into AZ, adopt OUR state motto, cultures, attitudes, and weapons handling. On the other hand, it was fun to watch jaws drop on Californians walking into the gun shop I worked at, ranging from "Dude, that's LEGAL here?" to the one time, "Young man, I am calling the BATF, because I KNOW you cannot sell those, those, things!" Never heard back from ATFE, maybe they laughed too loud to remember what store he was complaining about....
 
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