Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends

[Double_J]

Glocks are "better" than 1911's. That is what one of my co-workers believes because he sees the "torture tests" and only a glock could handle it. He also thinks that the only round you should ever need is the .45 ACP. I have discussed that some people can not shoot a .45 well, and a 9 mm or .40 would be a better choice, but he knows all and can not be wrong.

No marine would be caught dead using a pistol. I know for a fact that is not the case as a friend of mine was on a house clearing detail in Iraq a few years ago. He got into a situation where it was easier to drop the M4 and transition to the pistol due to the tight quarters. He also did not buy into the myth that the 9 mm is not a man-stopper, he used well placed shots to stop the bad guys (head shots and belt buckle shots work well).

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

The catch phrase "stopping power" that was ever so popular at one time.

It's my opinion that this is a common catch phrase that is taken so far beyond anything technically useful that it is meaningless. "Stopping power" is anything that stops your attacker from getting to you. There are too many factors involved to consider, especially between different calibers. In my opinion, "stopping power" is a dramatic catch phrase used to make one gun sound more impressive than another and is really only useful to people trying to sell you a gun. Ignore it.

Add "one-shot-stop" to that as well.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

Oh I knew it was way wrong when I saw it. It was a book called "Guns of Law Enforcement" and it was clearly intended for a younger crowd. I knew enough from reading magazines and forums that that was total BS.

At least I didn't believe John McClane and say that "it's not plastic! It's a Glock 7 and it's porcelain!"

Totally agree. Unfortunately, it's also clearly indoctrinating the younger crowd.

Black talon is still sold. It's the same bullet recoated and renamed. I can't remember the name of the ammunition right now to save my life. It's that early onset Alzheimer's getting to me.

The Black Talon line of ammunition was completely discontinued in 2000. Ranger SXT, similar but not the same, came out shortly afterwards, without he Lubalox coating that the Black Talons had. The bullets weren't exactly identical, either.

In 2007, the Ranger SXT line was updated and renamed "Ranger T-series". Changes involved the dimensions of the hollowpoint and changes to the bullet petals to elongate them and enhance their stiffness.

In 2009 the Supreme Elite line released a new hollowpoint called the "Bonded PDX1". It's similar to the Ranger SXT, but has a bonded design to enhance bullet integrity when passing through other objects on the way to it's target...mainly to keep the sharp jacket edges from peeling off before they hit the real target.

 

[scaatylobo]

Urban legend

Since the days of Jeff Cooper,they 1911 crowd has insisted that it is THE best 1 shot stopping round.

And the actual FACTS do not stop that crowd from still believing such silliness.

Those of us that do carry in the line of duty and also EDC,are fully aware that the 1911's are good old war horses [ yes I own 3 variants ].

BUT the 'teflon' guns are the most prolific and therefore THE most used in actual confrontations.

If you fully understand that it is SHOT PLACEMENT = PERIOD that will end a confrontation,then you know that its imperative that you carry a S/D handgun that you shoot VERY well.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

If you want a one shot stop you need an M110A2

 

[OptimusPrime]

"Handgun Myths/Rumors/ Urban Legends"

Is it true that there is a place in a man's head, that if you shoot it, it will blow up?



TCB

Yes.....the gas tank.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

That a thug can pull the slide off the front of a Beretta 92.

Cars blow up when shot with a shotgun.

You can go to ANY gun show in America and buy ANYTHING you want for $50 with no paperwork.

 

[Hurryin' Hoosier]

Or, maybe, if someone spiked his inhaler with nitroglycerine. (That could be interesting.)

 

[DonnyBrook13]

One incident that springs to mind is Earp dropping his revolver, resulting in a discharge.

Patton did the same thing. I think it was indoors, some kind of grand dinner, and one of his pearl-handled revolvers went off somehow.

My favorite myth -- that a bullet will "knock people down" as in the movies, where you see victims flying off their feet and splatting against a wall. Maybe on another planet with different physics. I knew a guy with two .44 mag revolvers, always carried one his car, because he wanted something that "could knock them down."

 

[Jim K]

A couple of years ago I ran into a man who claimed to be a WWII Marine vet. He claimed that "real" Marines didn't have artillery or air support and never used rifles or pistols. They just went in and wiped out Japanese island fortresses with bayonets!

Now how does one call a man who claims to be a decorated veteran a complete idiot and a gawdawful liar to boot without seeming disrespectful to the real heroes? I just walked away.

Jim

 

[YZ]

Scattylobo:

1911 is not a round. Perhaps you meant 45 ACP.

J.C. never said it was "the" most powerful round. It was his choice for semi-autos.

 

[YZ]

RetiredUSN:

One-shot stopping power is based on statistics. When a large enough sample of incident reports is available, the probability of one gunshot wound being a fight stopper is calculated.

Many critical variables may be missing such as model, range, bullet construction, etc. It is not exact science, but is useful in comparison.

I have spent enough time in emergency rooms. A non-execution style .380 caliber gunshot almost guarantees an admission (though not a survival). A 45 ACP torso gunshot is most likely a DOA or close.

Any legitimate term can be abused and misplaced. Happens all the time, especially on the Internet.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Myth--evil, twisted, snipe spends his entire life to hone his shooting skills (and shoots everything to identical accuracy, from a PPK to a .338 to a 14.7). His scope has the zoom capacity of an 800mm telephoto lens.

800mm lens is just 16x power. Lots of scopes go that high.

 

[Cryogaijin]

That the 7.62x25 tokarev will go through a class II BPV

That the FN 57 is a 200 meter gun.

"I own an M4." (oh wait, that's a rifle myth.)

That putting a stock on a handgun makes it UBER dangerous, and only a criminal would do it.

That any handgun over 44 oz (I think that's the weight quoted in the AWB) maes it UBER dangerous, and only a criminal would do it.

One I beleived for many years: Only revolvers are good for arctic conditions. (My XD45c disagrees with that one, as did my Hi Point c9, and my Witness 10mm)

That a S&W .500 mag is the best "bear gun" in alaska. (Best is always a thorny issue, but I'd take a 12 gauge, thanks.)

That a VERY heavy trigger pull is a valid safety feature. (Thanks NYPD)

And I may be a bit of a biased purist, but: That you can get a 1911 in anything but .45 ACP single stack. (For me 1911 is synonymous with .45acp. I don't mind someone saying 1911 pattern, but a double stack 9mm is so far from the 1911 I consider it to be a different gun.)

That you need (insert gun here) for defense. (no, you need something that fits you, not someone marketing to you.)

That a .45acp firing solids is as good as a 9mm firing JHP.

 

[JT-AR-MG42]

Agree with #69

+1 with CapnMac concerning the no teflon bullets myth.

I remember hearing the name Arcane, just cannot recall the context.

A friend with a FFL (FFL was needed to order ammo in those days) and I were buying and shooting the KTWs though.




Green teflon coated solid brass -alloy- bullet. The bullets had a 'grease groove' turned out of the bearing surface of the bullet to reduce friction and resulting pressure.
Wish I had saved some of the carbine ammo to pull and put through a FAL.
The KTW did work as advertised though.

Shot up all of it except a box of .45 to save for carry.



While this ammo was never sold through commercial sporting goods outlets that I am aware of, by 1982 KTW no longer accepted orders from dealers
UNLESS it was on an official P.D. letterhead with payment to be made directly from the Police purchasing department.
No FFL checks were accepted.

I figure that, like John Thompson, KTW never figured bad guys would try to buy the ammo.

JT

 

[scaatylobo]

@ YZ

Sorry but ACTUAL FIGURES do not lie and the 1911 [ or course I meant the .45ACP - duh uh ],is not THE winner in one shot stops no matter where you look for that number.

I only wish that were so,then it would be all too easy to choose my S/D gun and caliber.

Newly published numbers show that the old .357 is still the number one, ONE shot stopping round.

I totally agree with the fact that ball .45 acp will do no better [ much worse I see ] than a really good anti personal 9 MM round.

AND with less recoil,you can hit more often and more accurately.

 

[YZ]

Scatylobo

Three-five-seven magnum is a revolver round primarily. It delivers more power than 45ACP. When 45 ACP is praised as gold standard, it is understood that it is only true for semi-automatic handguns.

 

[MinnesotaFats]

a poster said a myth is " that glocks are reliable" does anyone else here believe glocks are unreliable?

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

RetiredUSN:

One-shot stopping power is based on statistics. When a large enough sample of incident reports is available, the probability of one gunshot wound being a fight stopper is calculated.

Many critical variables may be missing such as model, range, bullet construction, etc. It is not exact science, but is useful in comparison.

I have spent enough time in emergency rooms. A non-execution style .380 caliber gunshot almost guarantees an admission (though not a survival). A 45 ACP torso gunshot is most likely a DOA or close.

Any legitimate term can be abused and misplaced. Happens all the time, especially on the Internet.

"Stopping power", as you said, is a combination of many factors and is not a truely quantifiable factor. One can certainly say, for example, that a .44 Magnum has more "stopping power" than a .22 Short. The terms is relative (qualitative vs quanitative). However, neither one has ANY "stopping power" if the target is not hit, or is not hit in an effective area.

And the argument goes beyond simply caliber, as well. Much as you said, bullet diameter, bullet mass, bullet design, and bullet velocity factor into this as well. Toss in the difference between types of guns (handguns or long guns) and you widen the field considerably. A .30 caliber bullet from an Automag III .30 Carbine certainly has less stopping power than a .30 caliber bullet from Remington 700 30-06.

The one, single thing that HAS been proven out to be vital in ANY ability to stop an attacker is penetration. Inadequate penetration means little, if any, blood loss or damage to vital organs. Assuming, of course, that one can hit one's target in the first place, all other factors are subservient to penetration.

After all, even nuclear weapons have to be delivered on target in order to be effective. Can't be a bunker-buster if you can't hit the bunker in the first place.


So, while I certainly agree with your statement that statistics may (and do) favor one particular type of round over another under certain circumstances as a better "one shot stopper", the term as it is generally used is rarely anything more than a marketing tactic or something to quibble about between gun affectionados in endless debates over which is best.

 

[Direwolf131]

Hello Everyone!

First off, let me thank everyone on this forum for many hours of reading pleasure. Although I don't post on here very often, many an hour of my time is spent perusing and enjoying the discussions here. I am currently hosting a new podcast called Handgun Radio on the Firearms Radio Network, and I have been doing a little potential brainstorming for future show topics. One topic I've been considering is going over some of the most prevalent/famous handgun myths, rumors or urban legends. I thought that I might query the members of this forum and ask: what is your favorite or most heard handgun myth, rumor, or urban legend?

Thank you!
Ryan

One of my favorites is how a .357 magnum is not suitable for defense from wild animals, namely bear, when in fact its the most perfectly suited to the task.

 

[KenW.]

Myth-Rumor:

High capacity magazines are those that are capable of holding more than seven rounds (ALA: NY)
Pistol grips are only used for "spray and pray" fire.
.223 is a high powered round.
This here is a .44 magnum and it'll take your head clean off.
The streets will be running red with the blood of our children.
Once a high capacity magazine has been used it is worthless.
Common sense gun safety laws won't affect law abiding gun owners.

 

[Jim K]

"One of my favorites is how a .357 magnum is not suitable for defense from wild animals, namely bear, when in fact its the most perfectly suited to the task."

Hmmm. Ever seen a big brownie?

Jim

 

[rcmodel]

I was gonna say!

There are bears, and then there are bears.

A 120 pound black bear raiding your S-Mores marshmallows you left outside your tent in Pennsylvania is a whole different bear then a 1,200 pound brown chewing your head off on Kodiak Island because you got between her and her cubs.

A .357 might be near ideal for the former, but you might as well use it to shoot yourself with your .357 and put you out of your pain with the latter.

rc

 

[Jim Watson]

As one pro said (in the pre-.44 Magnum days)
How come a 158 gr bullet at 1510 fps from a revolver (original .357 8 3/4" claims) is suitable for big game, while a 150 gr bullet at 1600 fps from my .30-06 is a small game load good only for rabbits and grouse?

 

[TitaniumMan]

DonnyBrook13: Patton did the same thing. I think it was indoors, some kind of grand dinner, and one of his pearl-handled revolvers went off somehow.

Patton: "They're ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol."

From the movie, of course.