I gotta get me one of them 30 round mags for the 42.After recovering from my Turkey Coma and watching the Eagles trounce the Cowboys, I rolled over to the range today to try MstrEddy's suggestion out of a new Wharf Rat
View attachment 205388 (click on image to expand)
Loaded a 30-round string @ 2.7g and found the charges, IMHO, underwhelming.
The majority ejected OK, but 4 of the run did not fully cycle the slide.
It could be attributed to being a new G-42 that hasn't loosened-up yet
My gut tells me that this load feels a little softYMMV
Handloading for the Glock 42 - Part IV
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Artofgolf
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Potatohead
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Boy, that Cowboys game was a snooze fest in itself..and my wife and i were all hyped up to see a good ballgame.
Those mags, boy they must be hard to get. (poor attempt to make this post on topic)
Those mags, boy they must be hard to get. (poor attempt to make this post on topic)
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mstreddy
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Art,
I shot some on Wed evening, but I need to take the pics, upload, etc...
I shot some more of the Promo 2.8, no issues.
Some of my buddy's Red Dot at 2.6 this time. (1 FTEject)
And another buddy worked up IMR 4756 at 3.3. - Accurate but not enough to cycle at all.
I think that you'll be better off with the Wharf Rat when it's a bit broken in. Another thing that may help is take the slide apart and clean out the firing pin channel, extractor area real good. I did this after my first outing and I found it helped a bit.
Oh, and I forgot to take the special target that I wanted to shoot in honor of the Wharf Rat.
PH - Yeah, I would love one of those 30 rounders for the G42.
I shot some on Wed evening, but I need to take the pics, upload, etc...
I shot some more of the Promo 2.8, no issues.
Some of my buddy's Red Dot at 2.6 this time. (1 FTEject)
And another buddy worked up IMR 4756 at 3.3. - Accurate but not enough to cycle at all.
I think that you'll be better off with the Wharf Rat when it's a bit broken in. Another thing that may help is take the slide apart and clean out the firing pin channel, extractor area real good. I did this after my first outing and I found it helped a bit.
Oh, and I forgot to take the special target that I wanted to shoot in honor of the Wharf Rat.
PH - Yeah, I would love one of those 30 rounders for the G42.
Potatohead
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Mstreddy,
In my never ending quest to find an accurate 380 load, I played with 4756 in 380 last night. I started getting consistent ejection at 3.5 gr. So Ive loaded up some at 3.7 to try today. fyi I believe that's near or at max but 3.5 sure didnt feel like i was near max..
In my never ending quest to find an accurate 380 load, I played with 4756 in 380 last night. I started getting consistent ejection at 3.5 gr. So Ive loaded up some at 3.7 to try today. fyi I believe that's near or at max but 3.5 sure didnt feel like i was near max..
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mstreddy
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Tater,
Yeah, my buddy's 3.3gr 4756 load worked fine out of his Beretta 84, accurate too, but it's too light for the Glock. As we've found it sure likes hotter loads. In my case, the 3.3grs gave me a five shot group of 1.7" counting a flyer. If not for the flyer it would have been .71" This is at 7 yards, offhand.
Here's a picture.
Again, this load was accurate, but failed to cycle the slide on every shot.
What pistol powders do you have on hand? What pistols are you loading 380 for? I've had excellent accuracy, >1" in my Sig 238, and G42 with the Promo and Win231.
Eddy
Yeah, my buddy's 3.3gr 4756 load worked fine out of his Beretta 84, accurate too, but it's too light for the Glock. As we've found it sure likes hotter loads. In my case, the 3.3grs gave me a five shot group of 1.7" counting a flyer. If not for the flyer it would have been .71" This is at 7 yards, offhand.
Here's a picture.
Again, this load was accurate, but failed to cycle the slide on every shot.
What pistol powders do you have on hand? What pistols are you loading 380 for? I've had excellent accuracy, >1" in my Sig 238, and G42 with the Promo and Win231.
Eddy
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mstreddy
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Here are the pics from the other tests. Same standard protocol, 7 yards, group of 5, slow fire, offhand, unsupported.
My Promo loads at 2.8grs
2 - 5 shot groups into 1.8"
No cycling issues. The G42 is working smooth with these loads.
My buddy's Red Dot loads - in this case 2.6grs of Red Dot. 5 shots into 1.6". One out of the five failed to eject.
And lastly, this is the target that I was supposed to shoot at for testing -- but, I left it at home.
OK, maybe next week I'll remember the Glock, the mags, the rounds and the target, all on the same day.
And, my next test will be the Promo 2.8 seated a tad deeper at .955".
Art, I think that the Red Dot will be fine (after break-in) at 2.7 - 2.9 grains.
BTW, I don't know what is up with photobucket, it's rotating the images I uploaded and even when I went through their online editor and re-rotated them, they still ended up wrong. Not in the mood to fuss with it more, so sorry for the sideways images.
Eddy
My Promo loads at 2.8grs
2 - 5 shot groups into 1.8"
No cycling issues. The G42 is working smooth with these loads.
My buddy's Red Dot loads - in this case 2.6grs of Red Dot. 5 shots into 1.6". One out of the five failed to eject.
And lastly, this is the target that I was supposed to shoot at for testing -- but, I left it at home.
OK, maybe next week I'll remember the Glock, the mags, the rounds and the target, all on the same day.
And, my next test will be the Promo 2.8 seated a tad deeper at .955".
Art, I think that the Red Dot will be fine (after break-in) at 2.7 - 2.9 grains.
BTW, I don't know what is up with photobucket, it's rotating the images I uploaded and even when I went through their online editor and re-rotated them, they still ended up wrong. Not in the mood to fuss with it more, so sorry for the sideways images.
Eddy
Artofgolf
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Wharf Rat target
The target is perfect for this thread - the crusty wharf rat
I liked the B/C target in #57 - tearin' up the bulls-eye Well done, MstrEddy!
I think you're right ~ need to bump-up the Wharfy Red-Dot charge to around 3.0g so cycling is not an issue.
I've shot rcmodel's mix @ 3.4g of RD with OAL of 0.955 through the mouse with no over-pressure problems SPICY
How does the Promo compare to the Red-Dot performance in your opinion?
No worries Tater, in a couple weeks they will be playing again in Philly
The target is perfect for this thread - the crusty wharf rat
I liked the B/C target in #57 - tearin' up the bulls-eye
Well done, MstrEddy!I think you're right ~ need to bump-up the Wharfy Red-Dot charge to around 3.0g so cycling is not an issue.
I've shot rcmodel's mix @ 3.4g of RD with OAL of 0.955 through the mouse with no over-pressure problems
SPICYHow does the Promo compare to the Red-Dot performance in your opinion?
No worries Tater, in a couple weeks they will be playing again in Philly
Potatohead
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Doubt theyll do much better, that Philly offense is pretty stout. (Im just realizing you are probably a Philly fan due to your geography)
Mstreddy, I definitely have some better suited powders for 380..For some reason I always primarily try to go the slowest powder route, and I also have a weird love affair with 4756.
BTW I just got back from my little shooting spot outside of town and found out that the 3.7gr load is not ejecting the cases well enough, and also jammed me up pretty good (wouldnt return to battery) once.
Unfortunately I loaded 60 of these last night after I fired the 3.5gr load and determined it was the bottom, as I was getting consistent ejections at that point.
So I came home, made a load with 3.7 gr AND shortened the OAL a bit...and it performed worse. Im a bit perplexed and may be reaching the conclusion that 4756 + sig p238 +90 gr bullet=crap load.
Mstreddy, I definitely have some better suited powders for 380..For some reason I always primarily try to go the slowest powder route, and I also have a weird love affair with 4756.
BTW I just got back from my little shooting spot outside of town and found out that the 3.7gr load is not ejecting the cases well enough, and also jammed me up pretty good (wouldnt return to battery) once.
Unfortunately I loaded 60 of these last night after I fired the 3.5gr load and determined it was the bottom, as I was getting consistent ejections at that point.
So I came home, made a load with 3.7 gr AND shortened the OAL a bit...and it performed worse. Im a bit perplexed and may be reaching the conclusion that 4756 + sig p238 +90 gr bullet=crap load.
Artofgolf
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mstreddy
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Art, thanks for the compliment. It's pretty satisfying to shoot decent groups from these little pocket guns.
Tater, you should try the faster powders. If you have W231/HP38, Red Dot, Promo, or Bullseye, they should be better for you. I found my Sig 238 to be the most accurate 380 I've ever shot. In some earlier post I put up the sub 1" groups it shot. Those were with Promo and W231.
IMO it's about the same. I see the loads that my buddy has worked up with Red Dot 2.6 - 2.7 as about the same loads I worked in Promo 2.6 - 2.8. I notice the 2.6 feeling stout in his Beretta 84 as the Promo 2.6/2.7 felt in mine. Accuracy wise they were similar as well.
Tater, you should try the faster powders. If you have W231/HP38, Red Dot, Promo, or Bullseye, they should be better for you. I found my Sig 238 to be the most accurate 380 I've ever shot. In some earlier post I put up the sub 1" groups it shot. Those were with Promo and W231.
jell-dog
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mstreddy
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Jell-Dog, I've been loading 100gr, both Berry's and Xtreme.
They've all worked well for me. Fed well and shot well too.
They've all worked well for me. Fed well and shot well too.
jell-dog
Member.
Thanks mstreddy,
I have the Berrys, will work up a load ladder to see what mine likes.
jell-dog
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mstreddy
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Jell, which pistol are you loading for? Is it a Sig as well?
I worked up W231 for my LCP originally and it worked well in the Sig too.
I loaded from 2.7 to 3.1 in .1 increments. They all worked in the LCP well, and I picked 2.9 as the load. They were all at .976" OAL.
The only picky one is the Glock.
I worked up W231 for my LCP originally and it worked well in the Sig too.
I loaded from 2.7 to 3.1 in .1 increments. They all worked in the LCP well, and I picked 2.9 as the load. They were all at .976" OAL.
The only picky one is the Glock.
jell-dog
Member.
mstreddy,
Not Sig p238 or Glock G-42(yet!)
I'm trying to work up some easy shooting accurate rounds for my wife's Bersa Firestorm .380.
It's well broke in with over 1K factory rounds through it, plus a trip to The Gun Doctor, an authorized Bersa repair center. Safety lever broke, The Doctor also tuned up gritty trigger and smoothed out the slide to frame fit. (all under warranty!)
Noticeable change for better when we got it back!
Anyway, factory rounds to "snappy" (otherwise she loves fit/weight of Bersa) she would like softer shooting accurate ammo.
Subscribed to "Handloading for Glock G-42", "Powder choice for .380" and "BE-86", all great threads!
Just looking for ideas for what will work for her.
Thanks!
jell-dog
Potatohead
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Interesting, and thanks for your comment. Im going to go a tad higher but I think it's trying to tell me to use another powder and Im being stubborn about it.
Im really disgusted that I have to pull these 50 or so that I rolled up, Ive never made that big of a mistake (Ive made some mistakes, dont get me wrong)and it's quite aggravating. I feel like Ive destroyed the structural integrity of that particular brass and bullet after pulling for some reason.
Potatohead
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Great thread by the way, guys.
MS,
I do have some faster powders. American Sel, 7625, zip, Win 231, hp38, BE, BE86, Herco, and getting closer on my particular burn rate chart, 800x. (which has worked ok in 380 for me). Ive actually managed to acquire quite a nice collection of pistol powders.
4756 is my favorite, and the powder that I have the most of, so Im probably a bit guilty of trying to make it do something that it's really not intended for. And I have played with the faster powders some in 380..another thing Im guilty of I think, is that Im repeating what has been successful for me in 9mm, using slow for caliber powders even though it's a different caliber and will most surely react differently.
I wouldnt know!
MS,
I do have some faster powders. American Sel, 7625, zip, Win 231, hp38, BE, BE86, Herco, and getting closer on my particular burn rate chart, 800x. (which has worked ok in 380 for me). Ive actually managed to acquire quite a nice collection of pistol powders.
4756 is my favorite, and the powder that I have the most of, so Im probably a bit guilty of trying to make it do something that it's really not intended for. And I have played with the faster powders some in 380..another thing Im guilty of I think, is that Im repeating what has been successful for me in 9mm, using slow for caliber powders even though it's a different caliber and will most surely react differently.
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mstreddy
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Tater,
When you say the new loads were worse, what do you mean? What were they doing? Were they not cycling? Or just inaccurate/inconsistent?
If you have to pull them - don't worry about that - I've pulled plenty of bullets and reused all the components when possible. Sometimes you may need to resize the brass (without the decapper). But then you are good to go.
And, stop being stubborn -- use the faster powders. I'd say -- try the Win231.
You see -- I'm something like you, but with W231. I really love it, and it does work in nearly all the pistol calibers I load. But, I'm going the opposite way - I have around 10 pounds left and I'm hesitant to burn it up until I can get more. So, got 16 pounds of Promo and have been using it wherever it works (a lot of calibers). I also picked up WST and have used it various calibers but not 380. I really like it, but it's not as broadly used as Win231 or Promo.
When you say the new loads were worse, what do you mean? What were they doing? Were they not cycling? Or just inaccurate/inconsistent?
If you have to pull them - don't worry about that - I've pulled plenty of bullets and reused all the components when possible. Sometimes you may need to resize the brass (without the decapper). But then you are good to go.
And, stop being stubborn -- use the faster powders. I'd say -- try the Win231.
You see -- I'm something like you, but with W231. I really love it, and it does work in nearly all the pistol calibers I load. But, I'm going the opposite way - I have around 10 pounds left and I'm hesitant to burn it up until I can get more. So, got 16 pounds of Promo and have been using it wherever it works (a lot of calibers). I also picked up WST and have used it various calibers but not 380. I really like it, but it's not as broadly used as Win231 or Promo.
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mstreddy
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Tater -- I reread your earlier post -- so the 3.7s were not ejecting and jammed up. The brass that jammed - was it one of those with the shelf inside? I've noticed that the ones with the shelf tend to bulge a little when you seat deeper. In the Glock they are not a problem, but I have not shot those in the Sig yet. I'll have to test those in the Sig and see if they are a problem as well.
Potatohead
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These were all new Starline, so nothing weird there. I only had 2 rds at each test weight.. I believe I started the work up at 3.3, so 3.3 and 3.4 didnt eject and then I cant remember if one or both of the 3.5s ejected (i know one did). So I think if I would have had more 3.5s to shoot I might've seen more trouble. I know they were really weak. So I figured 3.7 should easily put me in the consistent ejection area. Figured wrong.
The 3.7s the next day-I took 7 rds to the range, the first shot or two ejected really lightly I think. And somewhere after that I got all jammed up, it ejected but I had to bang the slide forward just a hair to get it to go back in battery..recock the hammer, shot that one and it stovepiped IIRC. Then I didnt shoot the last round. So I guess the problem at 3.7 is it ejects but doesnt get me back into battery. So I guess that's technically not "worse" than not ejecting..I guess I thought they were worse because of the jam up.
I dont really run into a bunch of this, or hadnt so far, but I need to take better notes, hell I cant even remember exactly what happened, and I need to test more rounds at each level on the ladder.
Sorry for the ramble.
The 3.7s the next day-I took 7 rds to the range, the first shot or two ejected really lightly I think. And somewhere after that I got all jammed up, it ejected but I had to bang the slide forward just a hair to get it to go back in battery..recock the hammer, shot that one and it stovepiped IIRC. Then I didnt shoot the last round. So I guess the problem at 3.7 is it ejects but doesnt get me back into battery. So I guess that's technically not "worse" than not ejecting..I guess I thought they were worse because of the jam up.
I dont really run into a bunch of this, or hadnt so far, but I need to take better notes, hell I cant even remember exactly what happened, and I need to test more rounds at each level on the ladder.
Sorry for the ramble.
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mstreddy
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Tater,
I'd say, time for the faster powders -- and when you are testing load up at least 5-10 rounds of each increment. That way you can test it well. As you found, 2 rounds leaves some room for doubt as to what was happening.
I'd say, time for the faster powders -- and when you are testing load up at least 5-10 rounds of each increment. That way you can test it well. As you found, 2 rounds leaves some room for doubt as to what was happening.
I have no advice for being stubborn. But I have enough fast powders to load .380 forever. I have more Titegroup than anything but I like the W231 better than anything, not only for the G42 but for 10mm as well. I decided to test what I have and go what I feel works best for me.
Artofgolf
Member
Tater will come around on his own ~ we will show him The High Road way along with logic, reasoning and irrefutable results that speak for themselves
On to innovation: I think we may have found a bullet fitting for die-hard Wharf Rat fans
(GNARLY & CRUSTY)
(Courtesy - Lehigh Defense LLC)In the "Best 380 Auto" thread, there has been an interesting discussion around testing of this bullet.
Well, curiosity got the best of me, so I ordered a box of 380 Kurtz to give it a try in our beloved G42; report & additional details to follow
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