Handloads not chambering smoothly.

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ZGunner

ZGunner

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All of the bolt actions I load for seem to dislike chambering my handloads. Two .223s, 30-06, .270, and to a lesser extent my .308.

I'm sure this is human error. Maybe my sizing die isn't setting the shoulder back far enough? I'm using RCBS FL sizing dies in every caliber. I have set them 1/2 turn past touching the ram. Will a full turn do anything?

I know this could all be checked with a case gauge. But im still trying to convince myself to spend at least $27 per caliber.

Just trying to crowd source an answer. I'm rebuilding my bench right now so I can't do any R&D.
 
I think you are on the right track. 99% of the time, chambering problems are caused by not bumping the shoulder back far enough. Screw your die in a little farther and then check it.

Don
 
Generally we raise the ram and run the die down till we hit the shell holder, then lower the ram and add between 1/8 and 1/4 turn running the die down a little further. The die threads are 7/8-14 so one full turn of the die is about 1/14 = .07142". So 1/4 turn = .0179" and 1/8 turn = .0088".

I know this could all be checked with a case gauge. But I'm still trying to convince myself to spend at least $27 per caliber.
Click to expand...

Case gauges come in a variety of flavors and depending on design provide a variety of information. One flavor is the Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Gage 5 Bushing Set. The merit to this set is you get real world dimensional numbers and it covers a wide range of cases (calibers). It will do all of the calibers you mention. You do need your own caliper to use with the set.

Each design and type of case or cartridge headspace gauge has its good and bad as to what data they provide. Hand loading was done for years without any gauges or using gauges the hand loader fabricated. I have tested and played with quite a few and as I mentioned, one selling point for the Hornady flavor is a single set gets you going with a wide range of calibers.

Ron
 
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Have you tried the sized case by itself before seating a bullet? What case prep are you doing? If so do this and see if for some reason if seating the bullet is causing a problem. Mark up the bullet and brass with a marker and chamber it to help find where it's tight. It could be many things.
 
I agree, check your sized cases in your rifles before you seat any bullets.

If they chamber with ease, then you know your seating set-up is the culprit.

How did you set up your seating dies?

Are you crimping?

A seating die set to deep into the press can cause an unwanted amount of crimp and actually buckle the case.
 
If they chamber just fine after resizing, and prior to seating bullets in them, then you know for certain it has something to do with the seating process.

Considering the above, either a crimp is being over applied, thus causing deformation of the brass, or possibly bullets are seated too long and jamming the bullets into the lands.

I adjust my sizing die down until the brass fits nicely. That doesn't mean I always have full contact with the shell holder either. Depending on the chamber, I can sometimes achieve good fit without full contact or cam over.

GS
 
Far more likely to be the die being too far down and the neck/shoulders are getting pushed down and out. The die should just kiss the shell holder with the ram all the way up.
The only case gauge you need is the chamber(s).
 
Far more likely to be the die being too far down and the neck/shoulders are getting pushed down and out.
Click to expand...

Not likely. A die too far down will move the shoulder back too far, thereby inducing an excessive headspace condition, but the case will chamber just fine. "shoulder pushed out"?:confused:

Don
 
Since you have several calibers, it would be a good idea to purchase the Hornady headspace gauge kit. It's on sale now at Midway for under $40.00 : http://www.midwayusa.com/product/47...-headspace-gage-5-bushing-set-with-comparator It will measure shoulder bump for all of your calibers and then some.

It will tell you exactly how much your F/L dies are bumping the shoulder. It will be a an eye opening experience.

Before measuring, be sure to decap primers before measuring so you don't get a false reading. The
hornady tool is one of my favorite tools.
 
Have you tried the sized case by itself before seating a bullet? What case prep are you doing? If so do this and see if for some reason if seating the bullet is causing a problem. Mark up the bullet and brass with a marker and chamber it to help find where it's tight. It could be many things.
Click to expand...

Yes. Still a tight fit. Case prep consists of initial tumbling, lubed with Imperial Sizing Wax and sized/deprimed, primer pockets cleaned, excess lube wiped off. It looks like there is some wear at the case mouth of the loaded rounds I have, like I need a taper crimp. I've tried the integrated roll crimp but it didn't help. But still, compared to a factory Federal round mine has ever so slightly dimensions (.001-.002). The only thing I can't properly measure is the shoulder location. I'll try resetting my dies, maybe playing with the depth and seeing if that helps.
Bullets are well off the lands. I'm seating at recomended depth (Hornady and Hogdgon mainly).
More to come by the weekend when I finish the bench. Thanks everyone.
 
Quote:
Have you tried the sized case by itself before seating a bullet? What case prep are you doing? If so do this and see if for some reason if seating the bullet is causing a problem. Mark up the bullet and brass with a marker and chamber it to help find where it's tight. It could be many things.

Yes. Still a tight fit.
Click to expand...

Then you've got to screw your sizing die down a little farther until it is no longer a "tight fit".

Don
 
Something is amiss.

I neck size only for my bolt guns with a collet die and while I can feel the last bit of bolt rotation close on the case it's FAR from what i'd call tight.

And this is without touching the shoulder at all.

Yet the OP is camming over against the bottom of a FL size die and his cases are hard to chamber in a bolt action they were originally fired in.

Something doesn't add up to insufficient sizing as the culprit
 
USSR said:
Not likely. A die too far down will move the shoulder back too far, thereby inducing an excessive headspace condition, but the case will chamber just fine. "shoulder pushed out"?:confused:

Don
Click to expand...


It could be if he's referring to the seater die. Note he doesn't specify
 
Often, the problem of not chambering is related to attempting to crimp bullets while seating them rather than as a separate step. This causes a slight bulge at the shoulder and interferes with chambering. If I had a dollar for every new reloader who had this problem at the range where I shoot, I would not need my retirement pension. Crimping while seating ONLY works where there is a substantial crimp groove and your dies are properly set up. The Lee "factory-crimp" die fixes all of these problems and gives consistent bullet pull even if cases are not trimed to the same length.
 
FYI, there are very few instances in which a bottle neck cartridge needs a crimp, bolt actions are not one of those. Forget about crimping, back your seating die out so that it doesn't make any contact with the case mouth at all, and I bet your problem vanishes.

What's likely happening, and especially if the bullet has no canelure to crimp into, is the case mouth, and, or shoulder, are getting deformed the result of the crimp. Neck tension alone is all that is needed to hold the bullet in place for bolt actions, and most other actions as well. The most common exceptions that would need a crimp, would be a machine gun, and a tubular fed magazine.

GS
 
Note:

Quote:
Have you tried the sized case by itself before seating a bullet?

Quote:
Yes. Still a tight fit.

While he may be compounding the problem during the seating operation, his initial problem is with a sized case not fitting properly in his chamber.

Don
 
I don't get it? :(

I took and measured a once fired 223 case fired in my bolt gun. Prior to resizing the case here is what I had.

C.O.L. = 1.756
Case Diameter @ Start of Shoulder = .3565"
Head Space (Cartridge) as measured from base to datum point on the neck was 1.4651" or about + .0015 over nominal of 1.4636"

I ran a RCBS 223 sizing die down till it touched the shell holder in a RCBS Rock Chucker. Then added another full turn on my die after lowering the ram. I shoved that poor case in there and just about stood on the lever. Obviously there was no cam over. That case was going as far into that die as possible as I figure it? I removed the victim and took the same measurements.

C.O.L. = 1.762" (The case obviously grew a little :)
Case Diameter @ Start of Shoulder = .3510" (The diameter reduced by about .005" which doesn't come as a surprise)
Head Space (Cartridge) as measured from base to datum point on the neck was 1.4596" so all in all the shoulder was set back about .005" for all that effort.

The case chambered just fine in my bolt gun before and after this little science experiment.

The OP isn't even getting to bullet seating as he stated. My read is he sizes an empty case and then that resized empty case demonstrates problems in chambering. I believe he mentions this to be true in a few calibers which is strange to say the least.

When time allows the OP may want to take several measurements on a case and note them. Then resize the case and repeat the measurements. Also as mentioned blacken the resized case and look for tell tale rub signs.

Clueless in Cleveland....
Ron
 
USSR said:
Note:

Quote:
Have you tried the sized case by itself before seating a bullet?

Quote:
Yes. Still a tight fit.

While he may be compounding the problem during the seating operation, his initial problem is with a sized case not fitting properly in his chamber.

Don
Click to expand...
The OP has tried chambering less a seated bullet. Anybody reading this thread? :)

Ron
 
1/8 turn, 1/2 turn, it all depends on how much your press flexes when sizing those particular cases.

After setting your seating die, size a case and leave the ram up. Shine a flashlight through the back. If you see any light between shellholder and sizing die, you need to screw the die farther down.
 
What Gloob said.

And if there is no gap between the shell holder and the die, and you still don't get enough bump, then you can resort to to other measures to attain the additional bump.

You can shim the shell holder.

You can buy a competition shell holders, shorter than the one's you currently use.

Or, if you have the ways and means to take off a fairly precision amount off the top of the shell holder, you can go that route. I wouldn't take off more than .002"-.003" at a time though. But I wouldn't take anything off the die, I've never been a proponent of altering the die's, unless it's done in a very precision machine manner.

What bothers me most about this problem, is the fact that the OP is experiencing problems with multiple cartridges / chambers? Maybe it has something to do with the press, maybe a weak frame, too much flex as a result? I have an aluminium RCBS "O" frame press, (RS2) that struggles with bottle neck brass, so I only resize handgun brass with that one.

So, what press are you using Zgunner?

GS
 
He said he's rebuilding his bench. I wonder if the surface he has the press mounted on is flexing? This could allow inconsistent full length resizing. Especially on longer harder to resize cartridges. Just a thought.
 
He said he's rebuilding his bench. I wonder if the surface he has the press mounted on is flexing? This could allow inconsistent full length resizing. Especially on longer harder to resize cartridges. Just a thought.
Click to expand...

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is a very good possibility. A bench top that flexes can cause these issues.
 
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