Hangfire / Squib recognition

[119er]

Just a reminder about gun safety. At the range today with a buddy doing some plate shooting. He was firing a Kahr 9mm with old ammo that was being shot just to disose of it. Age was unknown, but it was factory ammo. After several hangfires, (pop,BANG) one popped but didn't ignite the powder. After waiting the 10 or so seconds with the muzzle downrange he racked the slide and another round chambered. I saw the empty case fall on the table with powder rolling out and yelled to stop him. Once he cleared the pistol the bullet was lodged in the bore about halfway between chamber and muzzle. This is a dangerous squib as it allowed the next round to chamber giving no indication of an obstructed bore. Firing would have no doubt destroyed the gun and most likely caused injuries to him or myself.
The point is please listen to your gun and pay attention to what is going on. Esapecially with old or surplus ammunition. This is a good lesson for me as I have only read about this until today.
Stay safe

 

[Skinny 1950]

I was shooting a 1911 with re-loaded cartridges and one went off and the case was ejected but the bullet stuck in the barrel,the gun cycled and the next cartridge hit the stuck bullet and the slide stayed open. If the bullet got stuck further down the barrel the next round would have gone off if I pulled the trigger. I feel very lucky that the next round didn't chamber properly and disaster was avoided.

 

[Mike1234567]

I had a S&W 659 when I was a young teen and had a primer-only fire that created a squib load. I had relatively little experience with firearms and no one to instruct me. I "nearly" took another shot but then realized something was amiss so I safety checked then field stripped it to take a look through the barrel. Sure enough it was blocked. It took me at least an hour to dislodge the bullet, which was frustrating, but it could have been a much worse situation.

 

[thorazine]

The point is please listen to your gun and pay attention to what is going on.

I guess I would be screwed.

Instinctively I will rapidly clear any jam or malfunction -- ten seconds seems like an entirety.

Also I like to shoot fast.

 

[dmlehto]

That happened to my rossi 357 a couple months back. the bullet wedged itself between the cylinder and barrel, jamming the gun . The only time fixing one of my firearms involved a big <non THR language removed> hammer!

 

[Stevie-Ray]

The point is please listen to your gun and pay attention to what is going on. Esapecially with old or surplus ammunition. This is a good lesson for me as I have only read about this until today.
Stay safe

This is why generally semi-autos are safer than revolvers for rapid fire. For the most part a squib won't cycle the action. But, naturally, you should drop the mag before you rack, and inspect the bore.

 

[1911Tuner]

This is why generally semi-autos are safer than revolvers for rapid fire. For the most part a squib won't cycle the action.

I'll tentatively disagree.

Most people would be surprised at how often a squib will cycle a slide and drive it backward far enough to uncover the next round in the magazine...and it's easy to miss if you're firing a fast string.

Felt recoil in an autopistol comes mostly from the slide hitting the frame, but also partly from the spring compressing and pushing the frame into the hand. The squib cycled slide gives the perception of recoil, and usually doesn't alert the shooter that anything is wrong until he pulls the trigger again.

Fortunately, most squibs that do cycle the slide aren't driven deep enough into the barrel to let the next round completely chamber...and the gun just stops. For those that allow full chambering...the result is usually a bulged or split barrel that locks the gun up rather than blowing it up. As a rule, stainless barrels split, and carbon steel barrels bulge.

Revolvers, on the other hand, transmit the impulse immediately and alert the shooter of light recoil.

 

[ball3006]

Good reminder post. Always pay attention to what your gun is doing...chris3

 

[revjen45]

I was shooting my M-N M38 at the range with some geriatric MILSURP COMBLOC ammo. Out of a 5-shot mag I had 2 hang fires and the last round would not extract. I smacked the bolt handle on the edge of the bench, which opened the bolt, but left the case stuck in the chamber. Another shooter who participated in High Power matches assisted me in removing it. There was a long split in the case. Upon arriving home, I tossed the rest of that batch and kept the split case as a reminder. Now, if I were to get 2 hangfires out of 5 I would quit using that ammo on the 2nd bad round.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

Most people would be surprised at how often a squib will cycle a slide and drive it backward far enough to uncover the next round in the magazine

Yes, I would be extremely surprised if it happened once out of every thousand squibs.

None of the ones I've had or heard of in my circles has ever cycled the slide properly.

 

[Owen Sparks]

A squib will not cycle an auto pistol if the round has no powder. Anyone who reloads long enough will experience this. A primer alone will not cycle the slide. You can also load so light that the pistol will fire but not reliably cycle and eject.

So how then can a load that is too light to push the bullet out the end of the barrel still cycle the slide?

It is because when the bullet stops in the barrel 100% of the pressure is trapped and has to go somewhere. With really light loads most of it goes out the end of the barrel.

If you have ever had to drive a stuck bullet out of a barrel you will remember that it took a good bit of force, several good whacks on a cleaning rod to force it out. This is a lot more force than is usually needed to rack the slide. When the pressure of a squib is trapped it takes the path of least resistiance and sometimes that path is rearward in the way the pistol is designed to function.

 

[Mike1234567]

Yes, I would be extremely surprised if it happened once out of every thousand squibs.

None of the ones I've had or heard of in my circles has ever cycled the slide properly.

My S&W 659 did... and I darned near pulled the trigger with a squib.

 

[1911Tuner]

So how then can a load that is too light to push the bullet out the end of the barrel still cycle the slide?

None of the ones I've had or heard of in my circles has ever cycled the slide properly.

I was looking straight at a gun that did it once. Before I could stop the shooter, she pulled the trigger again and locked the gun up when the barrel bulged and split.

There's a discussion on 1911forum with a guy who had his slide lock back on the last round that happened to be a squib. When he reloaded and dropped the slide, it stopped short of going to battery because the bullet wasn't deep enough into the barrel to let the next one chamber. So, it can happen...and does.

Here's the top post.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showpost.php?p=3380082&postcount=1