Happy 30th Birthday to the H&K USP!

[crestoncowboy]

Yeah, I was gonna say all that, but I was a'skeered of the fanbois' reaction...

I wasn't too worried about reactions. I did say it was a great gun. I don't think there was any real flaw (except they messed up the mag release. Lol) or anything wrong with them. Other than the mk23 they really weren't massive or heavy. In 9 or 40 they were just average size.

"The best $400 pistol currently selling for $850 in the world

I like it. And that's pretty much exactly how I feel... just more eloquently put.

The last recoil spring assembly I had to change was over 80 dollars. And to make matters worse, HK didn't even have one, they referred me to other stores. That's way before covid too. The last mags I bought were over 40 dollars for all plastic. I bought several trade in usp for 400 dollars and they only had one mag so I bought another for each one

That's the issue, a Glock mag is 15 bucks (and steel lined.... the Glock mag is a better mag. Nobody is making Ruger or Smith or keltec and AR that take "usp mags") and a Glock recoil spring assembly is under 10. A Beretta stainless spring assembly is in the 20s.

I've noticed that HK prices on their other guns are cheaper now. More inline with other brands and better ergos to boot. They also seem to have muffled the "world's only offensive pistol" and "we're better than you... and we know it" mentality.

Beretta has also gotten cheaper despite the dollar being worth less. My first stainless 96 was over 700. You can find them now for less.

 

[TheHermit]

As I noted, the Wiki info hasn't been updated for a while.

Ok, would you be so kind to tell us, which of those countries / military units on the list no longer use the USP?

 

[tarosean]

Well, multiple law enforcement agencies and military units in plus twenty countries is not exactly a short list and Bundeswehr alone is close to 200,000 active-duty military personnel.

I am in Germany a lot and will be in Frankfurt in a couple days. I only see P30's in holsters when I am out and about.

 

[jjones45]

Wish they released a USP in 10mm!!

Don’t we all. Unfortunately HK has no interest in making 10mm handguns since LE and military have no interest in 10mm handguns.

 

[crestoncowboy]

Ok, would you be so kind to tell us, which of those countries / military units on the list no longer use the USP?

You could look up each one but I'm sure most have moved on. The Germans only bought 20k usp to begin with and most that do carry a handgun have p30.

The border patrol is p2000 now. Spanish armed forces have some Glocks at least. Lithuania carries p9. Ffdo carry Glock. GROM has Glock 17s. Etc etc.

Most of the list is small units. The few I checked just now that are larger no longer carry a USP. Maine SP do appear to still have USP from the 1 or 2 article that popped up.

I'm sure some do but I doubt it's many. It's just not a good feeling handgun compared to many now and most don't want to train on a hammer fired da/sa gun. Even worse is the Lem. The value of the HK drops drastically of its lem just like the sig dak. Most hate them. Its just easier for a military or force to teach a Glock/XD/MP etc. Capacity is down despite the guns weight being up compared to some others. The cost to maintain comes into play. Id be fine issued a Beretta, a Glock, any of my HK, fn tactical, SiG p226/9/0 etc or 320..... all great guns

Some love them and that's fine. But the market and the groups issued to them don't care for either one. Some hate da/sa too. Its personal.

 

[tarosean]

Even worse is the Lem.

Yeah I know its a like or HATE thing.

My EDC is a LEM while I dont "love" it it doesn't bother me as much as most.

 

[crestoncowboy]

View attachment 1130610

Yeah I know its a like or HATE thing.

My EDC is a LEM while I dont "love" it it doesn't bother me as much as most.

I didn't say it's "even worse" to me. I like most guns so I'll not share my personal preference. Lol.

But the prices they bring shows is a pretty obvious bias for most people. Dak and lem knock 100 bucks off the value. Just like a dial a duck knocks 100 bucks off an old wingmaster or a5... despite not actually hurting the gun wether it adds anything or not. Lol. And I heard many people absolutely despise their lem issued guns about 15 years ago. I don't think I heard one of the 100 or so city guys who liked the trigger.

Even though almost all my favorite duty guns other than the Glock were da/sa (p97dc, Beretta 96, Sig 229, and USP) I do see how having one consistent pull rather than two completly different ones could be desirable though. No doubt. Especially for people who shoot once a year at qualifications

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Even worse is the Lem. The value of the HK drops drastically of its lem just like the sig dak.

Take it back..............

I owned (past tense) an HK45 with the standard DA/SA trigger, and I owned (past tense) a P30SK with the LEM trigger.

I will never own another HK hammer fired gun that doesn't have the LEM trigger in it. Not unless the standard DA/SA trigger is vastly improved. Maybe it has been. I've been out of the gun market for a few years now.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I didn't say it's "even worse" to me. I like most guns so I'll not share my personal preference. Lol.

But the prices they bring shows is a pretty obvious bias for most people. Dak and lem knock 100 bucks off the value.

Great news for me! I'm all-LEM, all day!

 

[crestoncowboy]

Great news for me! I'm all-LEM, all day!

Same way i feel about .40. A .40 in most guns brings a good deal less money. I prefer 40 so it's been great for me. 200 dollar m&p. 250 dollar Glocks, 300 dollar sig 320. 350 dollar usp and 226/229.

Find a 9mm in any of those for those prices. Lol

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I'm fine with .40 cal, too. I can shoot my P30 in .40 about as well as I could a 9mm. Ammo is nearly as cheap and for woods carry I like the option to go with a 180-200gr hard cast. For CCW I still prefer 9mm but not by a wide margin.

 

[Old Dog]

As in any thread tangentially referring to HK pistols, the fanboi presence is strong.

(And I'm kinda a fan of an awful lot of HK stuff, but the support for the least ergonomic, heaviest, blockiest, crappiest trigger pistol ever made at a premium price point is crazy).

 

[Phaedrus/69]

I can understand why a guy might not like the ergos of the USP, but I suspect the hardcore fans like are mostly folks with larger hands. The USP fits my grip as though Teutonic gunsmiths flew in from Germany to mold the gun around my hand! In the decades I've owned a USP I've probably fired like six rounds DA. The first thing I've always done when getting a new UPS is to swap out the detent plate for on that disables the decocker function to facilitate carrying it cocked-and-locked. My USP Match Trigger is quite good! Not tuned 1911 good but better than most other sidearms.

 

[JR24]

Take it back..............

I owned (past tense) an HK45 with the standard DA/SA trigger, and I owned (past tense) a P30SK with the LEM trigger.

I will never own another HK hammer fired gun that doesn't have the LEM trigger in it. Not unless the standard DA/SA trigger is vastly improved. Maybe it has been. I've been out of the gun market for a few years now.

Funny, I have both and wish my LEM was a DA/SA.

Once I started using a heavy DA as my dry fire main gun, they are fine to shoot and don’t slow me down any. Makes everything else shoot nicer too.

Heck, my HK45c in SA, and in my hands, does everything my 1911s do at any range.

 

[InTheSwamp]

30 years ago the USP was unveiled at SHOT...hard to believe it's that old already, but I think most will agree it is one of the best pistols ever made.. Though I sure wish they update it a bit..

Any other lovers of the USP here?

I don't know about 'most', but you can count me in.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Funny, I have both and wish my LEM was a DA/SA.

Once I started using a heavy DA as my dry fire main gun, they are fine to shoot and don’t slow me down any. Makes everything else shoot nicer too.

Heck, my HK45c in SA, and in my hands, does everything my 1911s do at any range.

I’m just spoiled.

 

[TheHermit]

the least ergonomic, heaviest, blockiest, crappiest trigger pistol ever made

Sounds like you have small & weak hands and have never shot a Ruger P85 or a 2nd generation S&W autoloader

 

[Old Dog]

Sounds like you have small & weak hands and have never shot a Ruger P85 or a 2nd generation S&W autoloader

Yeah, but just no. I have large and strong hands. And was issued briefly the Ruger P-85/89 (SDPD academy issue for a time), later, 3rd gen S&W autos and even later HK USPs. Did I mention I was actually an agency firearms instructor for twelve years and have considerable experience with the HK USP? No?

Good night, then. Nice try, though. As far as the civilian dilettantes who've never had to carry a firearm in the real world for real world purposes, I stand by my remarks on the USP.

 

[d2wing]

I had one, I installed a lower front sight so I could hit with it. I liked it until I shot a VP9. The VP9 has a better trigger and way better ergos for me.

 

[tarosean]

The VP9 has a better trigger and way better ergos for me

Agreed x 2... Got one when they first came out. However, it simply did not work for me as I was constantly engaging the slide stop shooting fast (USPSA competion)

 

[tarosean]

As far as the civilian dilettantes who've never had to carry a firearm in the real world for real world purposes, I stand by my remarks on the USP.

So you're the worlds formost expert and only your opinion matters? I dont care if you like it or not, there is no need to degnigrate people who do. I am sure you own guns that many would dislike for various reasons.
I would consider myself a "fanboi", as you put it, of high end 1911's and only own one USP out of 50+ handguns. I works and works well thats all that I can ask of a gun to be honest.

 

[Old Dog]

So you're the worlds formost expert and only your opinion matters? I dont care if you like it or not, there is no need to degnigrate people who do.

Wow. Is that how you think I came across? We are all offering our opinions, and mine (not saying I'm "the world's foremost expert" simply one who was issued this pistol for a few years, had to use it and teach it) is simply that it didn't work as well for me and many others. and I don't particularly care for it, especially since I witnessed firsthand how a great many officers improved as pistol shooters when the USP was replaced by a more modern, ergonomic pistol.

Yes, the USP works, and I know it works well for some others. I used it effectively, but there remain other pistols that work better for me. Read my other posts in the thread and maybe you can put my remarks into perspective.

 

[X62503]

Mine nightstand gun is a V3, and a GG&G adapter took care of the rail issue and permitted installation of a Modlite. Happy Birthday, USP!

 

[TheHermit]

Did I mention I was actually an agency firearms instructor for twelve years and have considerable experience with the HK USP?

Well, your comments seem to indicate otherwise when you claim that the USP is the "heaviest" pistol ever made, when in fact the unloaded weight is almost precisely the same as the Glock 23 (less than an ounce difference, if I recall correctly).

civilian dilettantes who've never had to carry a firearm in the real world for real world purposes

Son, I can guarantee you're not the only one on this forum who has carried / carries a firearm for "real world purposes" and some of those have been in much hairier situations than one can get into in some San Diego suburb.

Wow. Is that how you think I came across?

Yes, this is precisely how you come across.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I don't mind a little back and forth between members, but this is now getting out of hand and approaching the area of censure.

It is not my desire to take action, so I'll let this serve as a warning for members to resist commenting of other members rather than their arguments...as outlined in the rules you all agreed to when joining this forum