Has anyone gone from a small .38 to a small .380 for primary CCW?
- Thread starter Erich
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black bear
Member
Yes, me.
I used to carry a .38 every day for 35 years. The last ten years it was a .38 Chief Special with Remington 125 grains + P.
That carrying was job related. Now that I am retired, I can justify been armed in only a few ocassions.
So my gun now is a AMT back up .380, with the first up the pipe a Winchester Silvertip and the rest ball ammo.
So people will say a "mouse gun" but is better than my 60 years old fists!!!
black bear
I used to carry a .38 every day for 35 years. The last ten years it was a .38 Chief Special with Remington 125 grains + P.
That carrying was job related. Now that I am retired, I can justify been armed in only a few ocassions.
So my gun now is a AMT back up .380, with the first up the pipe a Winchester Silvertip and the rest ball ammo.
So people will say a "mouse gun" but is better than my 60 years old fists!!!
black bear
Once upon a time I really liked my Ruger SP-101.
Yep, it was as small and light as...
Ok, it was a brick.
The Glock 23 I switched to was roughly the same overall dimensions, and thinner and lighter to boot!
Not to mention a LOT more rounds and reloads much easier, carrying reloads easier too.
The .38 snubbie can be had in a variety of lightweight models but the overall size is still bigger than you might think.
I look at them as "compact" as opposed to "small".
Rather have a .38 than a .380, though.
Yep, it was as small and light as...
Ok, it was a brick.
The Glock 23 I switched to was roughly the same overall dimensions, and thinner and lighter to boot!
Not to mention a LOT more rounds and reloads much easier, carrying reloads easier too.
The .38 snubbie can be had in a variety of lightweight models but the overall size is still bigger than you might think.
I look at them as "compact" as opposed to "small".
Rather have a .38 than a .380, though.
Shane333 your incorrect. In short barrels the 380 is still weaker than the 38 special. The 38 special has loads that will expand and penetrate close to 12 inches the 380 has none that will do both. In fact almost no 380's will expand from small autos like the Mustang and PPK S. The ones that will will not make it near 12 inches.
The energy figures are close but the 38 has a considerable advantage in momentium since it can use bullets weighing as much as 158 grains. The 9mm is more powerfull than both of course and is more comparable to a mid range 357 mag.
One advantage of 38 revolvers in the pocket gun class is reliability. Personally I have had very poor reliability from blow back pocket autos. They do not share the reliability of their full size locked breach service pistol brothers. While the 38 and 357 snubs do share the same reliability of full size revolvers.
Pat
The energy figures are close but the 38 has a considerable advantage in momentium since it can use bullets weighing as much as 158 grains. The 9mm is more powerfull than both of course and is more comparable to a mid range 357 mag.
One advantage of 38 revolvers in the pocket gun class is reliability. Personally I have had very poor reliability from blow back pocket autos. They do not share the reliability of their full size locked breach service pistol brothers. While the 38 and 357 snubs do share the same reliability of full size revolvers.
Pat
W Turner
Member
I have gone back and forth on this for a few years mainly between the sub-caliber Kel-Tecs and the j-frame SW revos. I finally settled on a SW 642. It just works for me.
The .380 is the minimum, but I see the .38 as penetrating better with possible expansion, whereas the .380 may penetrate enough (unless you use ball) and may expand out the shorter barrels.
Yes, the j-frames only hold 5 rounds, but the way I see it, this is my primary carry during the week and I absolutely need it to work no matter what. I know the j-frame will work if fired from a pocket or if jammed against the body of a BG. A semi-auto does not inspire that kind of confidence in me.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer semi-auto's in belt-carry sized weapons, just not in the pocket sized guns.
W
The .380 is the minimum, but I see the .38 as penetrating better with possible expansion, whereas the .380 may penetrate enough (unless you use ball) and may expand out the shorter barrels.
Yes, the j-frames only hold 5 rounds, but the way I see it, this is my primary carry during the week and I absolutely need it to work no matter what. I know the j-frame will work if fired from a pocket or if jammed against the body of a BG. A semi-auto does not inspire that kind of confidence in me.
Don't get me wrong, I prefer semi-auto's in belt-carry sized weapons, just not in the pocket sized guns.
W
a friend of mine used to carry a j-frame 38 most of the time. One day when at a gas station he was at the back of the store and this skinny,nervous girl came in and started talking realy fast and confusing the clerk during this time to males that came out of the same van and went into the store and spread out. At this time my buddy was thinking oh beans!! I've got 3 possible targets and 5 shots! Lucky for all involved the girl scooped out some change to pre-pay some gas and all 3 people left but this close call turned my buddy off j-frames and pocket guns as a primary.
P.S. one thing to remember though is that a mouse gun beats none at all
P.S. one thing to remember though is that a mouse gun beats none at all
concerned citizen
Member
38/380
I switch back and forth from a seecamp 380 to a mod.38, I mostly carry the mod.38 tho, I can get a better fast grip and draw but I still love the little 380 seecamp.
JIM PHL.. How do you like that Mod. 37 of yours?
I switch back and forth from a seecamp 380 to a mod.38, I mostly carry the mod.38 tho, I can get a better fast grip and draw but I still love the little 380 seecamp.
JIM PHL.. How do you like that Mod. 37 of yours?
If I have the need for a really small carry gun its my Ruger LCP. I sold my snubbies after buying it. The snubs are not appreciably smaller than a G26 or M&P 9C to warrant carrying it. If I can carry the snub I SHOULD be carrying a better pistol. The LCP is WAY smaller and fills my niche as a deeper cover weapon.
usp9
Member
Holy Thread revival Batman! 
...but since my answer will date back to 1979 or '80, I guess time is unimportant.
I switched from a Charter Arms Undercover, carried in an ankle holster, loaded with semi-wadcutter or some brand of hollowpoint, (I can't remember details). I never did shoot that gun well, even after using it for several years.
I switched to a Astra Constable .380, carried on my ankle or on my belt, loaded with whatever I could find. That was a terrific gun that I shot very well. It convinced me to go "auto" only. I changed because I was more accurate, faster and had more rounds.
I was persuaded to sell that gun to a friend but I stuck with the .380 in the form of a Beretta 84... a gun I carried for many years.
...but since my answer will date back to 1979 or '80, I guess time is unimportant.
I switched from a Charter Arms Undercover, carried in an ankle holster, loaded with semi-wadcutter or some brand of hollowpoint, (I can't remember details). I never did shoot that gun well, even after using it for several years.
I switched to a Astra Constable .380, carried on my ankle or on my belt, loaded with whatever I could find. That was a terrific gun that I shot very well. It convinced me to go "auto" only. I changed because I was more accurate, faster and had more rounds.
I was persuaded to sell that gun to a friend but I stuck with the .380 in the form of a Beretta 84... a gun I carried for many years.
chihuahuatn
Member
There is a great commentary on this from Dr. Gary Roberts at the link below, scroll to #15 post
http://www.thehighroad.us/archive/index.php/t-398332.html
Mike
http://www.thehighroad.us/archive/index.php/t-398332.html
Mike
oldfool
Member
I used to mostly CCW carry a S&W model 60 snubbie 38sp 1 7/8" barrel (SS, not an airweight) 5 shooter... and sometimes still do, OWB
I mostly now carry a Colt government model 380acp, all steel ~23 oz, 7 shot mag, locked breech, 3 3/4" barrel
slimmer, trimmer, overall more compact than snubbie, super easy IWB carry, points well, no muzzle flip, not prone to limp wristing the way some short/light autos can be
points and shoots more naturally for me than the snubbie, stays better on target, access just as quick, shoots at least as quick, and carries far better, very reliable, extra rounds
that aside, I don't do magnum loads out of 2" barrels (never did), don't have faith in expansion of either 38sp out of 2" barrels or 380acp rounds out of 4" barrels, so I load any off-the-shelf commonly found FMJ in either
current trend conventional wisdom seems to put more faith in momentum vs. energy
I am not inclined to have unbounded faith in either, but prone to favor energy over momentum
but have never yet seen anyone change their mind about such "knockdown power", "penetration", etc. arguments anyway; people pick whatever 'formula' favors their pre-determined choice, me too
oddly enough, I always have favored full size all steel revolvers over full size all steel autos for home and range... but CCW is a whole other thing
have also been known to drop a Ruger LCP in pocket for extra casual mode, but don't pretend to myself that it is what it ain't... just a convenience 7-shot derringer, very limited capability, both it and me in combination
I mostly now carry a Colt government model 380acp, all steel ~23 oz, 7 shot mag, locked breech, 3 3/4" barrel
slimmer, trimmer, overall more compact than snubbie, super easy IWB carry, points well, no muzzle flip, not prone to limp wristing the way some short/light autos can be
points and shoots more naturally for me than the snubbie, stays better on target, access just as quick, shoots at least as quick, and carries far better, very reliable, extra rounds
that aside, I don't do magnum loads out of 2" barrels (never did), don't have faith in expansion of either 38sp out of 2" barrels or 380acp rounds out of 4" barrels, so I load any off-the-shelf commonly found FMJ in either
current trend conventional wisdom seems to put more faith in momentum vs. energy
I am not inclined to have unbounded faith in either, but prone to favor energy over momentum
but have never yet seen anyone change their mind about such "knockdown power", "penetration", etc. arguments anyway; people pick whatever 'formula' favors their pre-determined choice, me too
oddly enough, I always have favored full size all steel revolvers over full size all steel autos for home and range... but CCW is a whole other thing
have also been known to drop a Ruger LCP in pocket for extra casual mode, but don't pretend to myself that it is what it ain't... just a convenience 7-shot derringer, very limited capability, both it and me in combination
OP
OP
Erich
Member
Wow. I originated this thread back when the Republicans still controlled the House, Senate, and presidency. And now I have actually gone from small .38s to small .380s, at least for some uses.
I used to consider an airweight J-frame my minimum carry gun. Now it's a Ruger LCP. Reason being that (with a KelTec clip attached) it hides more easily in "dress clothes." I load it with DoubleTap 95-gr ball ammo (does 980 fps from the little thing), and I carry two spare mags along with the gun. I'll still carry small .38s IWB (though I usually find something else that works better - either a small 9 that holds more rounds or a slightly larger .357) - but the LCP has really taken on the deep cover duty.
jon in wv, I normally hate zombie threads, but I'm glad you brought this one back to the top.
And now I have actually gone from small .38s to small .380s, at least for some uses.I used to consider an airweight J-frame my minimum carry gun. Now it's a Ruger LCP. Reason being that (with a KelTec clip attached) it hides more easily in "dress clothes." I load it with DoubleTap 95-gr ball ammo (does 980 fps from the little thing), and I carry two spare mags along with the gun. I'll still carry small .38s IWB (though I usually find something else that works better - either a small 9 that holds more rounds or a slightly larger .357) - but the LCP has really taken on the deep cover duty.
jon in wv, I normally hate zombie threads, but I'm glad you brought this one back to the top.
Ronsch
Member
I have not necessarily "gone to" but I often carry my Ruger LCP as opposed to my Charter Arms .38 special Undercover model.
Just depends on what I am wearing for the day...
Just depends on what I am wearing for the day...
Broken Anvil
Member
I spent a week on vacation and decided to carry my 380 Sig P238 and leave my S&W 649 .357 Bodyguard at home. (My 9mm CZ85 came along in a soft case) The Sig was small and light and was better than a sharp stick but I still felt naked. All I could think of was if I had to use it, it was going to take at least 3 or 4 shots to get the job done. Felt much better packing the .357......comforting and comfortable.
crashbuell
Member
I went from a Smith and Wesson 642 -5 shot to a Colt Govt 380 7+1. My reasoning was that the Colt was slimmer, held three additional rounds, didn't make fireballs come out of the barrel of my gun, and hey, it's a Colt!
engineer88
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My first carry gun was a keltec p3at. I later upgraded to a 637 jframe which I carried for a long time. I always felt a little uncomfortable with only 5 and would carry a keltec p32 or p3at as backup. Nowadays my little .38 has been all but replaced with a pf9 for pocket carry. I still carry the snub once a week when I am in a wheelie mood, but otherwise it sees little carry time.
As an aside I have almost paid off a brand new ppk/s that will see some carry rotation. Ultimately it was not the power of the rounds that makes me more or less confident in the .380 vs .38 but the combination of only 5 rounds in the snub + slow reloads. I shoot the snub well and am more confident in it's stopping power over a .380 tbh.
Unfortunately I had a similar situation to the one mentioned earlier where I and a handful of other folks were walking back to our cars after a late dinner. There were three unsavory types leering at me (with my 5 year old daughter at the time on my shoulders). I had my .38 and my p32 on me. My hand went in my pocket to my snub and one held my daughter's legs as I walked by as far as I could on the other side of the street. Long story short I found out later that the main guy I caught eye-balling me had flipped a pocket knife open (another person in my party lagging behind saw it and told me way later, sheesh!).
Now I was 20+ feet away and I have no doubt I could have stopped him but only fear or good fortune would have stopped the other two, especially if they were armed with anything better than knives, especially since I only had 1 free hand. That changed my comfortability with 5 shots and a slow reload and even having a ny reload. My bare minimum is now 7-8 rounds and in a swiftly reloadable platform. Most days I carry a glock 26 with a 15 round magazine as extra mag. If I am going anywhere really uncomfortable one of the pocketable keltecs or the snub comes along for the ride too.
Ymmv, but for me 5 with a slow reload just doesn't feel like enough personally, even at a small sacrifice to power. Now if there was no .380 and I had to drop down to .32 to get the added round count over the .38 it might be different. Fortunately nowadays a 9mm can be had in a platform small enough to match the uses of a snub nose revolver.
As an aside I have almost paid off a brand new ppk/s that will see some carry rotation. Ultimately it was not the power of the rounds that makes me more or less confident in the .380 vs .38 but the combination of only 5 rounds in the snub + slow reloads. I shoot the snub well and am more confident in it's stopping power over a .380 tbh.
Unfortunately I had a similar situation to the one mentioned earlier where I and a handful of other folks were walking back to our cars after a late dinner. There were three unsavory types leering at me (with my 5 year old daughter at the time on my shoulders). I had my .38 and my p32 on me. My hand went in my pocket to my snub and one held my daughter's legs as I walked by as far as I could on the other side of the street. Long story short I found out later that the main guy I caught eye-balling me had flipped a pocket knife open (another person in my party lagging behind saw it and told me way later, sheesh!).
Now I was 20+ feet away and I have no doubt I could have stopped him but only fear or good fortune would have stopped the other two, especially if they were armed with anything better than knives, especially since I only had 1 free hand. That changed my comfortability with 5 shots and a slow reload and even having a ny reload. My bare minimum is now 7-8 rounds and in a swiftly reloadable platform. Most days I carry a glock 26 with a 15 round magazine as extra mag. If I am going anywhere really uncomfortable one of the pocketable keltecs or the snub comes along for the ride too.
Ymmv, but for me 5 with a slow reload just doesn't feel like enough personally, even at a small sacrifice to power. Now if there was no .380 and I had to drop down to .32 to get the added round count over the .38 it might be different. Fortunately nowadays a 9mm can be had in a platform small enough to match the uses of a snub nose revolver.
My neighbor is more experienced than I am, and he carries daily because of his job. He and I talk guns a lot and he recently went from a S&W 642 to a Ruger LCP for EDC, keeping the Smith as a "truck gun." As he explained it, the 642 wasn't as easy to carry, but "the LCP, I just toss in a pocket so I know I will carry it everywhere, all the time."
WardenWolf
member
My father transitioned from a S&W Model 38 Airweight Bodyguard to a Polish P-64 (9x18 is effectively .380 equivalent). He says the cylinder width of the revolver made it a lot less comfortable to carry, as it tended to dig into his side. He still carries the revolver on occasion, though, when he's wearing a particular overshirt with a large side-opening breast pocket.
MedWheeler
Member
I actually went from a .38 snub to a "bigger" .380 for concealed carry, the latter being a Bersa Thunder. However, I recently went from that to a Kel-Tec PF-9 after running into one in a LGS for a price I couldn't pass on, being how scarce these are around here.
Vern Humphrey
Member
I carry my DS in a tuckable holster of my own design, and have made several for friends. The DS or similar revolver just disappears and it's so comfortable you forget you have it.
LawofThirds
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it all depends on where you want to carry it.
Pocket carry for me is always going to be a .38 revolver. It doesn't scream "gun" and the draw is much easier for me than an equivalent sized auto.
IWB is going to be an auto. A fullsized 1911 is thinner than a J-frame and thickness is the dimension that makes the difference between comfortable and "hip destroying" for me.
Pocket carry for me is always going to be a .38 revolver. It doesn't scream "gun" and the draw is much easier for me than an equivalent sized auto.
IWB is going to be an auto. A fullsized 1911 is thinner than a J-frame and thickness is the dimension that makes the difference between comfortable and "hip destroying" for me.
6Covered
Member
Holy Smokestacks...
when I saw this originally I was surprised that Erich posted this question. I have followed Erich's exploits for several years and consider him a "near" expert. After reading all the replies I better understand what he was looking for.
I carry everyday, everywhere a 3AT in weak side pocket. Probably 98% of the time. I
have shot the snot out of it. It has proved reliable. I too carry it with Corbon DPX.
I also carry a larger primary gun (one is none). It can be anything from an XD-9 to a G29 to a 3913 to a 4513. All in inside belt holsters. Depends on my workday and how I'm dressed. Today is an exception. Taurus UL 38 in ankle holster. My schedule has me meeting people and being dressed so the ankle holster was pretty much the only choice.
Small 38's are nice but I haven't found anything as small as the little Ruger or Keltec
380's for everyday all the time carry.
My .02
Jon
when I saw this originally I was surprised that Erich posted this question. I have followed Erich's exploits for several years and consider him a "near" expert. After reading all the replies I better understand what he was looking for.
I carry everyday, everywhere a 3AT in weak side pocket. Probably 98% of the time. I
have shot the snot out of it. It has proved reliable. I too carry it with Corbon DPX.
I also carry a larger primary gun (one is none). It can be anything from an XD-9 to a G29 to a 3913 to a 4513. All in inside belt holsters. Depends on my workday and how I'm dressed. Today is an exception. Taurus UL 38 in ankle holster. My schedule has me meeting people and being dressed so the ankle holster was pretty much the only choice.
Small 38's are nice but I haven't found anything as small as the little Ruger or Keltec
380's for everyday all the time carry.
My .02
Jon
I went to a .380 for my car gun
I switched from a .38 snubnose to a .380 caliber BERETTA 84. The BERETTA is bigger, but much easier to control and for that reason it is more accurate for me to shoot. The easier to see 3 dot sights also help.
On the stopping power side, I have 14 rounds of .380 hollow point against 5 of .38 special +P. The .38 has more power per round, but I have more rounds and a better chance of hitting a vital spot with the BERETTA.
Also, if I have to reload, I get 13 more shots in about half the time and can do a tactical reload at any time.
I have found the reliability question not to be an issue with my BERETTA'S. They are for all practical purposes as reliable as a revolver.
The only down side is that the model 84 is at least as bulky as a 6 shot revolver. The 5 shot models win this area by a wide margin. You can also pocket carry a 5 shot revolver. The model 84 is strictly a holster gun for me.
Jim
I switched from a .38 snubnose to a .380 caliber BERETTA 84. The BERETTA is bigger, but much easier to control and for that reason it is more accurate for me to shoot. The easier to see 3 dot sights also help.
On the stopping power side, I have 14 rounds of .380 hollow point against 5 of .38 special +P. The .38 has more power per round, but I have more rounds and a better chance of hitting a vital spot with the BERETTA.
Also, if I have to reload, I get 13 more shots in about half the time and can do a tactical reload at any time.
I have found the reliability question not to be an issue with my BERETTA'S. They are for all practical purposes as reliable as a revolver.
The only down side is that the model 84 is at least as bulky as a 6 shot revolver. The 5 shot models win this area by a wide margin. You can also pocket carry a 5 shot revolver. The model 84 is strictly a holster gun for me.
Jim
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