Al Thompson
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Most of the guys here use slings for transport. HTH
Has the Bipod Made the Sling Obsolete?
- Thread starter elChupacabra!
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elChupacabra!
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Al,
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought.
Still, many of your replies got me thinking about the utility of a sling as a shooting aid from positions other than prone. Although I'm going to stick to my guns that, prone, a bipod is probably more stable than a sling (for me at least), there are plenty of other positions that a sling COULD be useful in, so I think I may invest in a Quick Cuff sling.
http://www.tacticalintervention.com/quickcuffslingmodelone.html
I like the idea that your weak arm isn't permanantly attached to your rifle - just a cuff that can be quickly buckled or unbuckled. Without getting into the cuff, you can still use the strap as a hasty sling, and with just a few more seconds, you can have a full-on deliberate sling setup. I think this sling may be the answer to my question about a sling that is USEFUL for improving shooting while being PRACTICAL in a fast-moving, dynamic environmnet. I believe this sling is issued with USMC Mk11 Mod 0's, so that's something.
Also, FYI, I'll probably get a sling swivel to mount to the handguard so I'm not jerking my barrel around when I tighten the sling up.
Yeah, that's kinda what I thought.
Still, many of your replies got me thinking about the utility of a sling as a shooting aid from positions other than prone. Although I'm going to stick to my guns that, prone, a bipod is probably more stable than a sling (for me at least), there are plenty of other positions that a sling COULD be useful in, so I think I may invest in a Quick Cuff sling.
http://www.tacticalintervention.com/quickcuffslingmodelone.html
I like the idea that your weak arm isn't permanantly attached to your rifle - just a cuff that can be quickly buckled or unbuckled. Without getting into the cuff, you can still use the strap as a hasty sling, and with just a few more seconds, you can have a full-on deliberate sling setup. I think this sling may be the answer to my question about a sling that is USEFUL for improving shooting while being PRACTICAL in a fast-moving, dynamic environmnet. I believe this sling is issued with USMC Mk11 Mod 0's, so that's something.
Also, FYI, I'll probably get a sling swivel to mount to the handguard so I'm not jerking my barrel around when I tighten the sling up.
Another thing to think about is how the shooting sling could be improved. I understand there are shooting harnesses out there that really allow you to get a rock solid stance.
Right now my favorite sling set up is a two point with one stud attached to the top right corner of the rifle butt and the other to the underside of the forearm in the traditional location. I adjust it much looser than a traditional sling and then put my head and left arm through the sling and wear it with the rifle hanging across my chest. When it's properly adjusted I can take up a very quick and solid shooting stance using something similar to a hasty sling, for standing, sitting and prone positions.
Right now my favorite sling set up is a two point with one stud attached to the top right corner of the rifle butt and the other to the underside of the forearm in the traditional location. I adjust it much looser than a traditional sling and then put my head and left arm through the sling and wear it with the rifle hanging across my chest. When it's properly adjusted I can take up a very quick and solid shooting stance using something similar to a hasty sling, for standing, sitting and prone positions.
.38 Special
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That "tactical intervention" deal is essentially the same set-up as the biathletes (skiing and shooting) have been using for decades. Makes a lot of sense to me, as does the harness they use. Were I to get serious about mountain hunting I think their set-up would be just about ideal.
elChupacabra!
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.38 Special,
That's interesting - I had no idea biathletes used a similar setup. Apparently the guy who designed the Quick Cuff sling was a SWAT shooter in San Francisco for a while and worked a "prototype" up on his duty rifle before he decided to market it. I think it looks like a pretty good idea and am looking forward to getting one in.
When I do, I'll post some pics
That's interesting - I had no idea biathletes used a similar setup. Apparently the guy who designed the Quick Cuff sling was a SWAT shooter in San Francisco for a while and worked a "prototype" up on his duty rifle before he decided to market it. I think it looks like a pretty good idea and am looking forward to getting one in.
When I do, I'll post some pics
.38 Special
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When you think about it, the biathletes would seem the logical folks to emulate, being as they have a very real need for A) secure carrying during intense activity, B) very rapid unslinging and looping up, and C) stringent accuracy requirements.
Of course, were they allowed bipods, you can just about guarantee that they'd have them!
Of course, were they allowed bipods, you can just about guarantee that they'd have them!
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.38 Special
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Spelling, too!
elChupacabra!
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I'd like to post an update to this thread. After reading all the comments offered on the versatility a sling offers, including increased stability from ALL positions - not just prone - I took the plunge and invested in a Tactical Interventions Quick Cuff Model 2 Military sling. I mounted it to my free-float quad rail tube with a Falcon Industries sling swivel, just forward of the rail cover, which still allows room to attach my bipod or flashlight forward of that without interferance.
I've only been shooting with it one time, but I must say, I really do like it. I keep it adjusted in overall length so I can take up a hasty sling in the standing position or clip in to the cuff and it's properly adjusted for a kneeling position. To adjust for a sitting or prone position requires just a slight tightening of the forward portion of the sling, which is much easier than loosening it. My logic is that a standing position is most time-critical, so a hasty sling should be set up for that position; next is kneeling, so if I've got time to drop a knee, I could probably snap in quickly and be in a tight, slung position. Finally, either the sitting or prone position takes some time to assume, so I figure if I need to get into those positions, I'll have time to make a small adjustment to my sling, too. It's my logic at least
And, to all those who praised the full loop sling, I will say that my groups are already improving substantially - especially in the prone position. I was amazed to watch the sights rise and fall predictably with my breathing, giving me the opportunity to control elevation by holding my breath at a certain point in the breating cycle; this has given me the ability to finally consistently hit a 1" target at 25m, the equivalent of a man at 500m. I've read about this technique but never really understood or experienced it before I started using this sling.
I didn't figure out how to properly adjust it to shoot from the other positions my first trip out, but I think I have now (thanks to some tinkering with it and dry-fire practice), and I feel confident that with a little more practice, it'll move my marksmanship forward across the board.
Finally, being able to quickly "snap in" or "snap out" of the cuff makes this a truly versatile, practical sling that I think is a really useful addition to a gun that is supposed to be a real "fighting rifle."
EDIT - I haven't yet taken the QD single-point sling clip off the stock, but probably will once I get more comfortable with this sling. Until then, it's not hurting anything hanging neatly there on the stock
I've only been shooting with it one time, but I must say, I really do like it. I keep it adjusted in overall length so I can take up a hasty sling in the standing position or clip in to the cuff and it's properly adjusted for a kneeling position. To adjust for a sitting or prone position requires just a slight tightening of the forward portion of the sling, which is much easier than loosening it. My logic is that a standing position is most time-critical, so a hasty sling should be set up for that position; next is kneeling, so if I've got time to drop a knee, I could probably snap in quickly and be in a tight, slung position. Finally, either the sitting or prone position takes some time to assume, so I figure if I need to get into those positions, I'll have time to make a small adjustment to my sling, too. It's my logic at least
And, to all those who praised the full loop sling, I will say that my groups are already improving substantially - especially in the prone position. I was amazed to watch the sights rise and fall predictably with my breathing, giving me the opportunity to control elevation by holding my breath at a certain point in the breating cycle; this has given me the ability to finally consistently hit a 1" target at 25m, the equivalent of a man at 500m. I've read about this technique but never really understood or experienced it before I started using this sling.
I didn't figure out how to properly adjust it to shoot from the other positions my first trip out, but I think I have now (thanks to some tinkering with it and dry-fire practice), and I feel confident that with a little more practice, it'll move my marksmanship forward across the board.
Finally, being able to quickly "snap in" or "snap out" of the cuff makes this a truly versatile, practical sling that I think is a really useful addition to a gun that is supposed to be a real "fighting rifle."
EDIT - I haven't yet taken the QD single-point sling clip off the stock, but probably will once I get more comfortable with this sling. Until then, it's not hurting anything hanging neatly there on the stock
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R.W.Dale
Member
for me I've found bipods to be vuritually useless in the field. When I had one with me I never found myself in a position where I could employ it.
A sling makes a rifle easier to carry
A bipod just adds weight
A sling makes a rifle easier to carry
A bipod just adds weight
gunseller2
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Bipods can work great if you are prone and the terrain permits. They are not a replacement for good marksmanship and add unnecessary weight to the gun. I find that I actually shoot better with a good prone position than I do with a bipod. Standing, kneeling, sitting...not so much, the bipod is irrelevant. Most GI style bipods don't offer much in the way of rock-solid shooting stability. They are designed for the most part to allow a shooter to shift the weapon to engage targets. Besides helping your shooting, a sling is also a great way to carry your rifle between point A and point B.. but you already knew that!
Just the ramblings of a fat old man.
Just the ramblings of a fat old man.
Slings and bipods fill slightly different niches, in my book. Putting a bipod on a rifle puts it into a more "designated marksman" or "precision rifle" role, even if those are somewhat nebulous terms when not talking about official military usage. One way or the other, you're hanging some weight and bulk on the rifle that does one thing and one thing only, enables you to make precise shots from the prone (or other fully supported, field-expedient position using some surface to support the front of the rifle). The sling is much more flexible in terms of how you position yourself to shoot, how much weight and bulk it adds, and other uses it has (for instance, you can use it ... as a sling!). If I was looking for a "patrol rifle" or general use EBR, I would not put a bipod on it. I would, however, put a sling on it. OTOH, if I was building a precision rifle, it would certainly have provision for a quality, detachable bipod.
Mike
Mike
rugerfreak
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The sling is the holster for your rifle---that way you always have it with you. Bipods in the field are worthless dead weight.
Learn how to shoot without a sling or a bi-pod---in the end--both are "crutch" and not a solution to learning how to shoot well.
Learn how to shoot without a sling or a bi-pod---in the end--both are "crutch" and not a solution to learning how to shoot well.
langloisandy
Member
Slings + Bipods...
elChup,
Howdy...I make rifle slings (the Ching Sling and others). I have had a number of people contact me about this topic.
Some folks eschew the bipod favoring the sling and a rest of some sort (either natural rest or a carried bag, hat, etc...) others use a sling AND bipod or some have asked me to make a handle to attach to a sling stud to pull back on whilst firing. (think leather strap, approx 7"+ with an integral swivel installed on the bipod or front spare stud)
Me, I prefer a normal 2 point or the Ching Sling, I run both on my rifles with issues (no bipods on mine).
Andy
elChup,
Howdy...I make rifle slings (the Ching Sling and others). I have had a number of people contact me about this topic.
Some folks eschew the bipod favoring the sling and a rest of some sort (either natural rest or a carried bag, hat, etc...) others use a sling AND bipod or some have asked me to make a handle to attach to a sling stud to pull back on whilst firing. (think leather strap, approx 7"+ with an integral swivel installed on the bipod or front spare stud)
Me, I prefer a normal 2 point or the Ching Sling, I run both on my rifles with issues (no bipods on mine).
Andy
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