Has WWIII started?

[Eightball]

What is your plan to accomplish this? Logistics?

Tactical nuclear bunker busters, accompanied by the P41 5mW Lazer Rifle . Oh, wait.....neither of those exist. Call out the mall ninjas!!!

I would say this is leading up to WWIII. Once Iran nukes Isreal (c'mon, that's why they keep stalling for time, it's obvious), WWIII=Started officially.

 

[default]

Neither did Germany.

Fair enough, they did not surrender, but rather agreed to an armistice (that they had requested). Nevertheless, France did not surrender, nor agree to any armistice other than the one that they were dictating, in the First World War, making the statement "It's not officially a World War until France has surrendered to somebody" a little ridiculous.

 

[Lupinus]

the way I see it most wars since WW2 have been, in the strictest sense, "world wars" in that most every major war has not been between two countries or maybe a few even when allies are taken into account but rather by many.

Korea? Yep you had Koreans, Chinese, Americans, British, and smaller number from probably countless countries.

Dessert Storm? Huge coalition.

World Wars were called world wars to begin with because all the major players from the globe were involved.

Now if you want to speak in terms of not just being involved but active warfare and battlefields all over the place at one time and carnage and what not, I think we are on the opening stages of the next world war. And it will last for a very, very long time. Our enemy doesn't have the power to do us in and deal the death blow, and we don't have the will to deal their death blow. A war isn't over until one side is totally beaten, if one side is intent on destruction the war will only flare up again as soon as they have the chance, you can see this on a small scale with Israel and Palestine. Israel beats them back but doesn't deal the death blow to totally finish them off because the rest of the world holds them back, and soon enough the terrorists are attacking again.

 

[Third_Rail]

Lupinus, you have the best point so far; that by "world war", we've had plenty of multi-country fights. I do hope you're incorrect about the latter part of your post, though.

 

[Lupinus]

Unfortunately, I don't think I am.

When you have a highly motivated enemy you have two ways of solving the problem and winning the war. Giving him what he wants, or annihilating him and beating him totally. The first option can be done if what they want is something reasonable, and while it isn't the most honorable or dignified if you have no taste of war you can do it. If they want land you can give that to them. If they want money or resources likewise. However, our enemy does not want anything from us other then to die and I don't know about you I rather like being among the living at the moment. So hence giving them what they want in order to pacify the enemy in this case is not a very good option. And giving them what they seem to also want, land in the middle east, only encourages the problem. Like giving a nagging child the thing he is nagging for it reinforces bad behavior and they will only do it more because it works.

So since giving them what they want here isn't an option that leaves one practical option, total defeat and if need be annihilation. Do you need to totally and completely kill everyone of your enemy? No you don't but you do need to do enough damage destruction and killing as well as kill enough of their leadership to make them find religion....for lack of a better word.

Think of the Nazi's for an example. They had the German people brainwashed pretty good I would say. Now what did we do? We bombed them into oblivion, killed many of them, practiced a policy of total warfare, managed to break down their leadership, and completely broke the will of the average German to fight and resist and those who were to ingrained to submit were killed. This won us the war and led to Germany seeing the error of the ways it had learned under Hitler. Now imagine if we had fought that was as we fight the Palestinians, or rather encourage the Israelis to fight them for us. Germany, hitting select targets, not doing anything to break the will of a people who are brainwashed and thoroughly believe nonsense fed to them by their leaders, and rather then total war fighting a minimal just enough war. Just enough to make Hitler back off, and do you think he would have stopped killing Jews and other mongrelized peoples in lands he controlled? No. Would he have gotten rid of the military equipment he wasn't supposed to have? Nope. Stopped attacking/annexing his neighbors? No. I can go on but you get the point I am assuming. How about if we gave him the parts of France he originally wanted? Kind of like how Israel gave Palestine some settlements. Didn't work did it? No what works when you have an enemy bent on your destruction is either submit to slavery and death or to totally crush them remove their leadership completely and rebuild them from the ground up, just as we had to do to Germany and Japan and what we need to do to the Arabs if we want to win this war and not be fighting it for a long, long....long time.

 

[shootinstudent]

Lupinus,

How about if we gave him the parts of France he originally wanted? Kind of like how Israel gave Palestine some settlements. Didn't work did it?

Do you think the comparison is fair, given that the Palestinians were actually living in those places before Israel was a country, and that "giving back" actually just means not expelling the Palestinians?

What land has an Arab country annexed in the past half century??? Is there even a single example of Arab states expanding Nazi-Germany style from this century?

 

[Lupinus]

I am making a comparison, yes they are different circumstances but it is a comparison. Wanting land is wanting land and both groups wanted land and both groups are psyco that want to kill those not like them. It is close enough.

As far an an arab state annexing a country I seem to remeber Iraq taking Kuwait for very similer reasons Germany annexed it's neighbors.

 

[shootinstudent]

Wanting land is wanting land and both groups wanted land and both groups are psyco that want to kill those not like them. It is close enough.

Well, the thing is, the Palestinians want to control the land that they live on right now. There is no Palestinian push to send Palestinians on to other lands that Palestinians don't already inhabit.

I think the psychos are more a consequence of the problem than the cause...Hamas and Hizbullah are both from the 1980's, a good 30 years after Israel declared independence.

Iraq is a good example, but the problem is that what motivated Saddam was utterly foreign to what motivates the radicals we're dealing with now.

I think WWIII is going to have to wait for oil to get more scarce, no matter how radicalized things get in the meantime.

 

[Lupinus]

Well, the thing is, the Palestinians want to control the land that they live on right now. There is no Palestinian push to send Palestinians on to other lands that Palestinians don't already inhabit.

The arabs want Israel gone, period. They aren't content as things are, if they are there wouldn't be any fighting. Israel has better things to do then fighting with the Arabs for no good reason, if the Arabs stopped Israel wouldn't bother attacking back.

I think the psychos are more a consequence of the problem than the cause...Hamas and Hizbullah are both from the 1980's, a good 30 years after Israel declared independence.

And before them there was the PLO and they all formed for the same reason, to destroy Israel. And a few radicals have now brainwashed the masses, just like the Nazis brainwashed the Germans. It is Israels land and if the Arabs would back off and leave well enough alone it would stop.

Iraq is a good example, but the problem is that what motivated Saddam was utterly foreign to what motivates the radicals we're dealing with now.

Perhaps, but you wanted a case of an Arab nation Annexing it's neighbors. And do you honestly think Israels neighbors wouldn't annex Israel if they were strong enough? How many times have they tried to take Israel over already with open warfare and attacking?

 

[beerslurpy]

I dont see WW3 happening.

1) North Korea has always been crazy since the 50s. North Korea would last about 10 minutes in a real fight and they know it. Instead they will rattle sabers some more. Again not leading to WW3
2)There is has been fighting in the middle east since about 5-6000 years ago. Judeans vs Philistines, round 1,514,531,531,453- best out of 3,029,063,062,907 for the galactic championship and the favor of the Almighty himself. This is hardly WW3 material.
3) Iran wants to join the nuclear club, I want a rocket launcher- neither of us is likely to get what we want. There is lot of time and effort separating Iran from nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, I predict Israel will keep goading Iran into doing something rash. If Iran doesnt respond, Israel will eventually deal them terrible setbacks throughout the region, no doubt with tacit help from the US and arab governments that feel threatened by the Iran. If Iran does respond, we get to walk all over them.

 

[coltrane679]

Jeez, quit being drama queens.

50 million+ people were killed in WW2, and the existence of the Free World was in legitimate peril.

Anybody here who thinks a a relatively few number of fervent towelheads are going to bring down the US needs to put down the crack pipe. It is amazing that some Americans have so little confidence in their nation and culture that they think a few of history's losers are a genuine existential threat to the US. Please. No question, terrorism is on the menu for the forseeable future--we can learn to deal with that, or cave into a police state for "security"--some kind of "friendly fascism", at least for starters (maybe not-so-friendly thereafter). In short, the only way the Islamic freaks bring down the US is if we allow ourselves to be panicked and frightened into doing it ourselves. Some of you are playing right into that script.

Europe has other issues, mainly demographic, which is a self-inflicted wound (which should be a lesson to us on the immigration issue, but I digress). Israel has the same issue, in spades. It cannot possibly outscrew those within its borders and on its doorstep. The outlook in these places ranges from dicey to grim, because demographics are a b***h to overcome. I wouldn't buy any long-term Israeli bonds.

What some of you are saying, without actually saying it (or perhaps even realizing it) is that there needs to be a genocidal war--a "final solution" to the Islamic question. Good luck with selling mass murder nowadays, on an unprecedented scale, no matter how you dress it up. This time 50 million wouldn't cover even a fraction of the Muslim population of Indonesia alone.

There are indeed people we need to kill ruthlessly. We have done a bad job of it, thanks to a colossal and foolish misdirection of emphasis. It's almost 5 years after 9/11 and ObL still walks the earth, while the US is bogged down in a Mideast quagmire in a country conjured out of thin air by long gone colonial powers--the 21st Century equivalent of the Balkans tinderbox. Good job, George Bush!

Nuclear terrorism in the US seems like a longshot (if nuclear terrorism was that easy, Tel Aviv would have been a radioactive crater long ago), but cannot be ruled out. What would happen afterwards, should it happen, is anyone's guess, except it would certainly involve the immediate death of what remains of a free and open society here. It might produce something approaching a WWIII. If a small nuke went off in NYC tomorrow morning, what do you do? There will likely be no return address on the thing--you couldn't even be sure it wasn't something floated by North Korea, or even China surrepticiously (although they are doing so well versus us in every other arena you'd have to wonder why they'd be so rash). People here will be screaming "Bomb Mecca!" OK, so what--go ahead. It would make us feel better, but it does what else? (I'll put aside the fact that it is located in one of our "best friends" in that part of the world--ha ha!). You think the fanatics will be broken up over that development? Welcome to asymmetrical warfare, folks.

So, I don't think we are in WWIII, but if it comes, you can forget the triumphalism of 1945--it is going to be ugly, ugly, ugly, even for the "winner", just as WWIII with the Soviet Union would have been. You'll defintely know it when you see it--and this ain't it.

 

[Medusa]

The arabs want Israel gone, period.

Say you have a gindergarten group, where one kid cannot get along with all the others. Then the problem is in this kid, not in all the others.

Another problem, everything anti-israel is taken as antisemitic and persons labeled as nazis. "If you're not with me you're a nazi" policy. IMHO the real problem is the zionism, that has no limits and what the US backs up all the time - arabs object to it in all the ways they can.

What is so surprising is that the vast majority of Europe and a majority of the US don't understand is that these people want us DEAD.

This whole war issue is a pretty hot potato that no one wants to hold firmly, so the "political leaders" keep their stronger opinions to themselves, mostly. If someone actually objects or says a little stronger words he's a nazi&jew-killer. This PC crap has gone into zionazism, I'd say.

What ticks me off a little is that every Israeli opinion, even shady ones, is taken as pure gold, everybody else's opinion is disregarded. The so called western world favours the jews a tad to much (because, well, most of the western world is run by jews). This is what drives the "terrorists", imho, but they see themselves as freedom fighters, fighting against zionazism and for their own survival.

This is similar to the WWII and occupied countries, like mine. Commies occupied our land and said it was their's. So we fought them, with germans. In Narva front we mauled the commies pretty hard and kept the frontline, so a lot of civilians were able to run west. This was also a freedom war against occupants and another ideology - communism (israelis in palestinian land, like), using whatever means available and nessesary.

For this we have always been called as nazis by commies. Every time someone remembers or honours the communist victims that person is labeled as nazi-lover.

Western world has happily labeled most muslims (palestinians, syrians etc) as terrorists. Why? Because the jewish-masters have said so. So they act like it, big surprise. And if to go farther, every action of them is seen as terrorism, even if it is something else.

IMHO the Israeli today acts like Germany in WWII. Only chosen ones are eglible to live in the country, all the impure ("goi"s) are put to sleep or concentration camp.

 

[RON in PA]

Medusa, it's nice to see an antisemetic Nazi speak his mind.

 

[shootinstudent]

Israel has better things to do then fighting with the Arabs for no good reason, if the Arabs stopped Israel wouldn't bother attacking back.

The problem is, Israel claims as its borders land that is inhabited almost entirely by Arabs. What are they planning on doing with these Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza, if they ever were to stop fighting? Let them vote? Then there'd be no Jewish state...it'd be an Arab state.

I think the fact that they have no voting rights and are sitting on land that Israel claims as part of Israel is in fact something Arabs should take seriously, and I seriously doubt Israel is just going to give all that land back to the Arabs just because.

It is Israels land and if the Arabs would back off and leave well enough alone it would stop.

Okay, so are you saying that all the Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza should just leave their homes because Israel says that land belongs to Israel? Or what? How would "leaving well enough alone" take care of the fact that millions of Arabs live in territory that is claimed by Israel?

I'm just confused as to how you see the problem here. Israel's Likud and now Kadima (the ruling parties) claim that God grants Israel all of the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza, and Lebanon south of the Litani. Yet those lands have Arab populations living on them, and those Arabs have been there for centuries.

So what's your solution to those peoples living in land claimed by Israel? Should they just join the Israeli state? If they did, it wouldn't be a government run by and designed to protect Jews anymore, so I don't see how Israel would want that.

 

[karaya]

IMHO the Israeli today acts like Germany in WWII.

Nonsens.

If this was true, the IDF could solve their problem with Hizbullah within a few hours simply by erasing the whole Libanon. Hitler would have done so, no doubt.

Israel's Likud and now Kadima (the ruling parties) claim that God grants Israel all of the West Bank, Jerusalem, Gaza, and Lebanon south of the Litani.

Hhhm...have you ever heard about the fact that Israel retreated from Gaza about one year ago, from Lebanon several years ago and that they planned to retread from 97% of the Westbank?

What did they get in return? Nearly 1500 rockets where shot to Israel by terrorists from Gaza (Hamas) and Lebanon (Hizbullah) - before the actual war, of course.

Why didn't the Palestinians in Gaza use the absence of the Israelis to build up their country instead of shooting with rockets?

Why does a so called liberation army (Hizbullah) exist in Lebanon, whereas the whole Lebanon is free from occupation by Israel for over a decade?

The answer is simple: These folks don't want peace, they don't want freedom, they don't want land. The only thing they want is to destroy Israel and kill as many Jews as possible.

 

[LAK]

Yes, this may well be the beginning of WW3. It is about the Caspian basin and surrounding region. To get a big foot there means getting Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and Iran out of the way first. Russian and China are not going to watch this all through and sit idle.

------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[ctdonath]

Anybody here who thinks a a relatively few number of fervent towelheads are going to bring down the US needs to put down the crack pipe.

Anyone who doesn't needs to stop using gasoline (directly & indirectly).

What's up with all the WWIII threads?

Enough people want a fight that we're gonna have one. Once the line can be identified as having been drawn, everyone can jump in.

Israeli today acts like Germany in WWII.

That mindset is why we'll get WWIII. Israel is NOT actively trying to take over the Middle East, and is NOT exterminating Arabs en masse. Israel was given a tiny bit of mostly unusable land, and neighbors have been trying to obliterate it ever since. Israel puts up with a LOT (rockets being indiscriminately lobbed in, suicide bombers, etc.) and when they close the border and pursue attackers (who then hide behind innocents just to get innocents killed so Israel can be blamed - absolutely atrocious behavior on the part of the attackers), they get baselessly accused of "acting like Germany in WWII".

Say you have a gindergarten group, where one kid cannot get along with all the others. Then the problem is in this kid, not in all the others.

Oh come on, grow up. If the "problem kid" can't get along because the others treat him "different" and pick on him incessantly, you teach the others to be nice (through lessons and discipline) - you don't throw him out because he looks different. Israel has pulled back within its borders, gave Gaza et al to the Palistinians, and generally did everything its neighbors wanted except die - result? ongoing attacks and viable threats of obliteration.

 

[Ira Aten]

Maybe it is WW 3.0

 

[Surat]

/rant on

apologies for slightly disjointed paragraph structure, I wrote this after 12 hrs of work. . .

Anybody here who thinks a a relatively few number of fervent towelheads are going to bring down the US needs to put down the crack pipe. It is amazing that some Americans have so little confidence in their nation and culture that they think a few of history's losers are a genuine existential threat to the US. Please.

Basicly what most of the muj want is the "crusaders" (the US and westeners) out of "dar al-Islam". This is pretty much by some accounts ranges from North Africa, into Sudan to the " 'Stans" up into to the parts of the Balkins. . . but most especially out Saudi Arabia and the Middle East. We are at once admired and despised for simply existing. We (Westerners and especially the US) should be being punished by God for not recieving the munificent benifits of Islam and yet. . . we are not. We are rich, fat and happy. We are admired for our wealth and power, despised for it too. There's a reason English is on half the street signs and American TV is on the satellite. I will certainly concede the fact that a good many, if not the majority of the people in this part of the world just want to get on with their lives and live in relative peace. However, there are a large number who either want power and money or, actually have a religious conviction based on narrow iterpretation of certain texts. these folks want us out of the "holy land" and also in the end to become good little muslems under the law of the Sharia. Especially as they interpret the Sharia. Anyone care to live in Iran or Taliban era Afghanistan becasue that's what these people want the world to be. Does your average Muslem want this? I rather doubt it. . .but even our society bred Eric Rudolph and Timothy McVey (sp?), both murdering crackpots who commited acts of terror for their bits ideology.

It's almost 5 years after 9/11 and ObL still walks the earth, while the US is bogged down in a Mideast quagmire in a country conjured out of thin air by long gone colonial powers--the 21st Century equivalent of the Balkans tinderbox. Good job, George Bush!

Well, IMHO, ObL should have recieved some 168 grain diplomacy after the embassies and the USS Cole, both his doings. . We can also lay that one at the feet of Mt Clinton who thought that flipping a few Tomahawks off at him would get the job done. As for the "long gone colonial powers" that's pretty much the only time many of these areas weren't rancid s**t holes.

I personally though Iraq was a huge frigging mistake but one thing you cannot deny is this is a protracted drawn out war of ideologies, much like the Cold War. In a bit of Realpolitik, it's better to fight the muj in Iraq, Afghanistan or even Lebanon then in NYC. The only problem is, we are actually financing the enemy via oil. No chance of bankrupting them like we did the USSR. So go ahead, buy your huge SUV and feed it $3 a gallon gas. You're helping to buy a muj a RPG and a suicide bomb vest. Don't even get me started on Venezuala and Chavez. . .

Another problem, everything anti-israel is taken as antisemitic and persons labeled as nazis. "If you're not with me you're a nazi" policy. IMHO the real problem is the zionism, that has no limits and what the US backs up all the time - arabs object to it in all the ways they can.

As for Mr Medusa, I can't decide if I smell Troll poop or not. OTOH I seem to recall that there where quite a few Estonians that made up units "of the SS". . so nice to hear unabashed anti sematism flung out there in the grand tradition. One thing you fail to mention is that Israel is a soverign nation ( not a terrorist militia) that generally takes great pains to avoid civilian casualties and to target the actual enemy. The people they are fighting blow up busses, schools and supermarkets and shoot rockets into civilian populations, and not generally Israeli military bases. Israel's enemies don't want "freedom", they want all their cousins (the children of Israel) dead or gone. They want Jeruselum back under Islamic control and if they kill most of the Jews to get it all the better.

IMHO the Israeli today acts like Germany in WWII. Only chosen ones are eglible to live in the country, all the impure ("goi"s) are put to sleep or concentration camp.

Oh give me a break. Show me one Israeli made crematorium or mass grave. For all their dirt the Israelis are not Nazi's. They've shown alot of good sense and restraint many times. Soem time's they haven't but well, poop happens. When terrorists hide amongs civilian populations people die just as the muj want! Every dead baby is a PR victory for the muj. Don't even get me started on the UN. . .

This is similar to the WWII and occupied countries, like mine. Commies occupied our land and said it was their's.

Guess what. If it hadn't been for "zionist" ruled America and perhaps one feisty Polish Pope, your ass would still be part of the USSR and learning Russian in school and singing the praises of Marxist-Lennin Socialism. Blow me. Go ask the kids in Breslan what they think of Islamic Fundamentalism and "using whatever means available and nessesary."

Russian and China are not going to watch this all through and sit idle.

Russia has had it's hands full taking care of Chechnia and making sure the lights and heat stay on in winter. China is busy with China and trying to take the US over via Walmart. The last person to come out of China with plans for the middle east was Tamerlane.

WWWIII? Well, not really. . more like Cold War II.

Here's a good summary of the ideology we as "Dar al-Harb" are up against.
Yeah I know it's a frigging Wiki, but that page is dead on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dar_al-Islam#Islamic_philosophy


/rant off

 

[karaya]

OTOH I seem to recall that there where quite a few Estonians that made up units "of the SS". . so nice to hear unabashed anti sematism flung out there in the grand tradition.

The Estonian volunteers made up a whole division, the 20th SS Waffen Grenadier Division, also called "1st Estonian".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/20th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_%281st_Estonian%29

If it hadn't been for "zionist" ruled America and perhaps one feisty Polish Pope, your ass would still be part of the USSR and learning Russian in school and singing the praises of Marxist-Lennin Socialism.

True.

 

[Medusa]

Medusa, it's nice to see an antisemetic Nazi speak his mind.

Bashing and calling names is very intelligent.
Karaya and others, you missed the second part of the thought. SO I repeat it.

IMHO the Israeli today acts like Germany in WWII. Only chosen ones are eglible to live in the country, all the impure ("goi"s) are put to sleep or concentration camp.

I made no quote to total invasion, just about the people living on the land that is currently under question.

When terrorists hide amongs civilian populations people die just as the muj want! Every dead baby is a PR victory for the muj. Don't even get me started on the UN. . .

You got the point there. The UN started the whole thing in the first place by dividing the country to two parts.

That is the problem with assymetric warfare - there is no enemy's army on the field, waging war. There are number of terrorist hidden in public. IMHO in order to battle with this kind of enemy you have to think like them, to understand their driving ideas, so you can predict their behaviour and actions a little, understand their actings and their causes, which action is replied with what kind of reaction and so on. You have to think like the enemy to beat the enemy in their own game by their own rules.

Military force, how the Israel is using it today, is like a sword, but what is needed is a scalpel. The enemy hides in the crowd, being more than willing to sacrifice the innocent ones. Like putting some rocket launchers at the side of a village, shooting from there and when the retaliation arrives the enemy is long gone and most probably innocent die. Then the world media shows dead kids and women, making this a PR victory to the terrorists, thus creating more anger against Israel, making more Palestinian guerillas, thus deepening the war and creating more terrorists.

To beat the enemy, you do must think as they do, to counter their acts with some efficiency, bombing offending villages doesn't have any efficiency at all, as no terrorist will die, and creating more support to terrorists.

The Estonian volunteers made up a whole division, the 20th SS Waffen Grenadier Division, also called "1st Estonian".

Yes they did, and yes we fough under german flag and yes we gave the commies a very hard time, but the court of Nuremburg decided that we had nothing to do with nazi crimes, or with nazi ideology at all, and officially judged that our boys, the Legion, fought for the freedom of Estonia, against the commies. The CIC personally took the responsibility in front of court and was judged right and was let free with rest of the fellows. So shove all the nazi remarks. I surely wouldn't reccommend making these into my face.

ADDED:
The Nuremburg court was pretty strict, disregarding what I think of it, and everybody even remotely resembling a nazi was convicted. So the the ruling (that frees our men from nazi crimes) is good enough for me.

What comes to understanding the enemy, you don't have to like their ideology or their motives, but to combat them effectively you must know and understand their code, driving needs and ideas etc.

Currently the terrorists tick the Isreal by launching some rockets from an outskirts of some village, Israel airstrikes or shell the village, innocent die, creating dead babies in CNN and more support to the terrorists. It's like killing a Hydra. Terrorists prep a trap and Israel happily falls into it, making exactly what the terrorists want them to do. So more people pour into Palestina from all the regions to fight under the Hezbollah "flag", creating more terrorists, thus frequenting the attacks to civilians etc and deepening the war. This whole thing is on the "snowball roll".

 

[Phetro]

Well, folks. WWIII hasn't begun. However, Civil War II might comence as the fedgov expands it's powers using Islamic terrorism as an excuse to curtail our civil liberties, and have an excuse for national ID. Meanwhile, the Balkanization of the southern borders continues appace.

Wake up people. Islam is at war with itself. Shi'a and Sunni hate each other. They've put their excrement on pause to fight us. The moment we pull out of the Middle East (and then quit our oil habit) they will be killing each other from the backs of camels again, instead of threatening our way of life.

The neo-con agenda put us where we're at. The Iranians would be talking about fighting the Sunni groups, and nations instead of us if it weren't for our meddlesome nature.

Our government is the enemy.

The only threat to anyone posed by Muslims is the threat Europe faces, and frankly, they've brought it upon themselves. Someone was going to destroy them, and it was a foregone conclusion the moment they decided their past sins can only be redeemed in the blood of the descendents.

I love this guy! I don't think a better job could have been done of summarizing the real heart of current affairs.

 

[tegemu]

Yes, it began on 9/11/01.

 

[Phetro]

That mindset is why we'll get WWIII. Israel is NOT actively trying to take over the Middle East, and is NOT exterminating Arabs en masse. Israel was given a tiny bit of mostly unusable land, and neighbors have been trying to obliterate it ever since. Israel puts up with a LOT (rockets being indiscriminately lobbed in, suicide bombers, etc.) and when they close the border and pursue attackers (who then hide behind innocents just to get innocents killed so Israel can be blamed - absolutely atrocious behavior on the part of the attackers), they get baselessly accused of "acting like Germany in WWII".

This is the beginning of all the problems. Israel was "given" land by people that never owned that land to give. The real residents want it back. All of it. And they aren't going to settle for a compromise. This is the stuff that lies in that fervent head upon which the towel (or bedsheet...I always thought they looked more like bedsheets) rests.

The war in the middle east will NOT end until one side or the other is completely destroyed. World War III...eventually, if not already.

 

[utahminirevolver]

"there is a lot of time and effort separating Iran from nuclear weapons"

I hope you're right. But Pakistan and North Korea managed to get them without too much trouble, apparantly.

We can't predict the future. I guessed wrong on Sept 11, 2001 when I was hearing reports out of New York. I thought that among other things, the US would immediately reinforce the borders, stopping illegal immigration and abandoning political 'correctness'.

Anyway, is this WW3? Time will tell.