Hassled at work about firearms

[RobNDenver]

You have a choice to make. If you want to keep your job, you play by their rules. They can fire you, for any reason or no reason at all. . . They have warned you that any further violations of their policy will result in your termination, and they have the right to back up the threat.

Don't give them the opportunity. If you have to keep this job, then abide by their rules. If you can find something else, I would be out of there in an instant.

 

[10X]

Employers have the ability to set a number of rules at the work place that employees must abide by, smoking, hygiene, bad language, on and on.
Unless something is specifically protected by law, the boss can do it and you have to comply. Otherwise, the boss can terminate you for violation of company policies.

It is his game and his rules, if those are incompatible with your personal values and cannot set those values aside during work hours, you owe it to yourself to move on.

 

[AlaskaErik]

That would be a strange place for me to work at. Everybody I work with talks about guns. I have yet to have any coworker say they are anti-gun.

 

[loadedround]

Mr. Moderator(Jorg):
With all due respect, I was referring to First Amendment rights in discussing firearms when asked and not about carrying them on the job. I do believe speaking your mind assuming it is not harassment, sexist, vulgar or racist is everyone's right and I will stick to my original statement regarding First Amendment rights. I fought for this right and was decorated for defending it. End of rant!

 

[22-rimfire]

It is his game and his rules, if those are incompatible with your personal values and cannot set those values aside during work hours, you owe it to yourself to move on.

That pretty much sums up my suggestion in this matter. In general, it is not a good idea to discuss items which may be construed as being "political" with clients, customers, or fellow employees. I know that sounds pretty harsh. But it sometimes is the way of things in the real world. Discuss these things on your own time and away from the workplace.

 

[Phydeaux642]

I used to work for a real pud a few years back. He didn't like me and I didn't like him. He treatened to fire me for some shop talk concerning some of his less than legal business practices. I called his bluff because I knew he wouldn't fire me but didn't care if he did. He couldn't replace me and he knew it, so, we co-existed in mutual disrespect. I left a bit later even though he asked me to stay. I just hate to be threatened.

 

[22-rimfire]

Never met a single person that can not be replaced in terms of the workplace. It may cost more, but you can always be replaced.

 

[Rockwell1]

I think checking out the customer's gun in the shop was over the top. If I saw an employee openly handling a firearm at work I would fire them on the spot

 

[KBintheSLC]

When my customer left, both of my owners took me into the office and said from this date forward, I will not discuss firearms with any customer or employee or I would be terminated. No discussion.

So, let me see if I am hearing you correctly... they said you cannot discuss your constitutional rights at the workplace? Sounds like it may be time to consult with an attorney... I smell a lawsuit.... well maybe not, but it still sucks.

I think checking out the customer's gun in the shop was over the top. If I saw an employee openly handling a firearm at work I would fire them on the spot

I do agree with this though. Talking about guns is one thing, but the customer bustin' out a new piece and you playing with it in the shop is not good any way you look at it.

 

[FiREhAwk]

I would get anonther job, and take his son shooting. He is 21 and can legally shoot if he wants to. With the job situation being what it is I can understand if you do not push the issue.

 

[duckman007]

loadedround,
Jorg is 100% correct in that the OP's First Amendment rights have not been violated. Granted, he could have gone into more detail with his post (no offense Jorg), but nevertheless, this sort of thing isn't covered by 1A. The First Amendment protects us from the government, not private citizens. There are other laws and rights, depending on the state in which an act occurs, that may or may not be violated by an employer acting in this manner, but not the First Amendment in this case. An example is when Don Imus made his comments. He had the right to make those comments, just as those who protested his continued employment had the right to make the comments they made. The government did not punish or prosecute either side, therefore the government wasn't involved, therefore no 1A violation.

Now, I think that most gun lovers like to talk about guns. Also, very few people like being told what they can and cannot talk about. But the simple matter is that the OP is free to get another job, he is not a slave. He does not have to work there. While I personally wouldn't act in the same manner as the OP's employers have acted, keep in mind that the business belongs to them. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. How would you feel if you owned a business and one of your employees started passing out Brady propaganda and telling customers how guns were evil? Again, I'm not saying that the owners are right, but they are within their rights to dislike guns and request that the OP not speak of guns at work.

I learned a long time ago that life is too short to worry about people like the two owners of this shop. If I were the OP, I would simply keep my mouth shut, do the best job possible, and during my off-time, I would be hunting for another job. Chances are, a better, more profitable job awaits him anyway. Luck seems to award those that take a chance.

 

[SWDoc]

I am self employed, with 5 employees. Their job description is to do what I tell them, unless it is illegal, immoral, or dangerous. I do not think this is unfair. I pay well, work hard, and feel I am the best judge of what is and is not acceptable around my clients.

In this thread I hear a lot about how to sue or sic the bureocracies on the owners. A lot of heated comments about employee's "rights" while at work.

FWIW, here's my take.

I don't like it when liberals try to force their agendas on me using EEOC, the courts, or any other uberlord-like entity, and likewise, I do not intend to do that to anyone myself, barring those instances for which those entities were intended. Such as a true redress of a legit grievance or harm, sexual abuse, etc.

I also believe that tactically it is a bad idea to be high profile about my finances, weaponry, intent, or politics. But that's just me.

My mindset here would be that I disagree w/ their stance, will abide by their wishes while in their employ, and move on down the road. It would not bother me. Their feelings on this matter are not important to me, and once I'm punched out, are no longer any sort of an issue. I would not be any more upset by avoiding a subject they consider to be inappropriate that I would be about their desire to have me wear pants while working.

When I see PETA members, throwing their little fits, or special interest groups demanding their "rights" (which they have defined after a very tortuous and often silly path from the core constitutional issue to wherever they find themselves standing) I lose a great deal of respect for their positions and integrity. I will not take that play from their playbook.

Second and First ammendment rights? Damn right! Extending that to justify handling firearms and talking about whatever you particular interest is while in your bosses' business? Not so much.

These guys are not threatening your God given rights. Ignore them and do your job. If you find another job (which sounds like a good idea), give them customary notice and leave. Being petty or vindictive does not help either you OR those of us who will then be painted (with some justification) by these guys with the same brush you hand them.

As for the son, he has his own problems to deal with here. I would simply tell him the truth. Let HIM decide whether the pro-gun or anti gun guys are being rational and high-road.

These guys are controlling you in far more ways than your topics of conversation. And with your help.

Just my opinions.

Steve

 

[Leanwolf]

"I think checking out the customer's gun in the shop was over the top."

So do I.

Especially when you already knew the two owners of the auto repair shop, your bosses, hated firearms and had already forbidden you to discuss them at work, where you were hired to do auto repair business, not look at customers' guns.

I can assure you if you continue to "rub it in their faces" by taking one of their sons shooting, when the boss has told you to not do so, you are going to be looking for another job, not because you want to, but because you have to.

L.W.

 

[lnlreloader]

I do believe speaking your mind assuming it is not harassment, sexist, vulgar or racist is everyone's right and I will stick to my original statement regarding First Amendment rights.

The first amendment protects us from the government.

As a condition of employment, your employer can restrict your speech pretty much anyway he wants. If you don't like it, you can quit.

 

[Noxx]

In my workplace I am surrounded by raging Liberals with whom I disagree on about 95% of all political and social topics.

I keep my mouth shut and do my work

I work at Disneyland, so I can relate. Blech.

 

[Blackbeard]

I'm sorry to say I have to agree with your employers. If I owned a business that deals with the public, I wouldn't want any employees discussing controversial topics and potentially scaring off my customers. Right or wrong, they do have a business to run and you are messing with their bottom line. I wouldn't let my employees discuss sex, politics, abortion, religion or anything controversial in any area to which the public has access. If you want to take it to the breakroom, that's ok as long as you don't offend fellow employees and risk me getting sued.

 

[cyclopsshooter]

i work in a gun shop, by my workplace standards i AM the raging liberal

i get in trouble for not carrying!

 

[Jmurman]

Some people are so turned off by any mention of guns, for whatever reason that they become very unreasonble...sounds like you work for a couple like that.

Look for another employer...and make sure you have gun related literature in your lunch box...decals on your car etc.

Also you might want to let the guys in your raea know WHO these guys are so they can avoid sending them work.

 

[mgkdrgn]

If you want to keep your current job, take the advice of my CCW instructor (when talking about talking to the police) ... "Never pass up the chance to shut the hell up."

If you don't want to keep the current job, find another more suitable and give proper notice. The LAST thing you need is a bad job reference.

Unless you are in a union shop, the reality is that most employers can let you go for any or no reason. Why give them one?

 

[BigGuy52]

As you all know, jobs are pretty scarce right now. I have more to lose by seeking new employment.

After reading your posts, I have to agree that I am an employee, and it is their business so I will 'Shut up and do my job'.

But I'll be damned if anyone will ever tell me what to think or what is acceptable on my own time.

For whatever it's worth, a little about my job. I am a sales manager for a Goodyear shop. I produce more sales and a larger gross profit then all the other employees combined, every month. I'm 100% ASE certified. I've worked at this store for 14 years. I have won numerous awards for top salesman in the district. I have a bachelors degree in sales management, graduated from Notre Dame, Indiana.

But, be that doesn't seem to matter when it concerns the hobby I love. Other employees can talk about race bikes, cars, sky-diving, I must hold my tongue because both of my owners are major againest firearms...So be it.

Thank you all for your input.

 

[Resto Guy]

Sounds like you should have no trouble finding similar work. That's what I would be working towards.
BTW, I manage part of an automotive business and have had numerous conversations with all of my co-workers regarding handguns. All of us own firearms (I recently bought a .357 from one of them) and the shop owner has offered to let me set up targets in back for weekend shooting. I've had a CCW permit for several years now and another is getting his soon.

 

[hso]

Find another job and let it be their loss of an outstanding employee.

 

[Kind of Blued]

Do they hate the bumpers on the cars that come in because they're the main culprits of 90% of hit & run murders?

To be honest, this doesn't suprise me, IL or not. Handling guns in your workplace is definitely not part of your job, and could be seen as unprofessional, although I would have no problem with it IF I KNEW YOU and knew you to be safe. Your employers are certainly not in this camp, and you knew that.

 

[wickedsprint]

I have to agree that handling the weapon in plain view is a no no. While you may know how to handle a firearm, I don't know YOU and if I see anyone handling guns without knowing their experience I get a little paranoid...especially at a place where firearms proficiency is not a core competency.

As far as non-work related banter..it's all about being professional. If the boss says no gun talk while you're on the clock..then that is what goes. It is less than an optimal setting for a gun lover like yourself, so figure out your priorities and then proceed. As far as legal footing I think you have none.

That being said sometiems I let my temper get the best of me. I'd have told the boss he is being ridiculous and asked him if he was just scared of gun talk, then asked if he was getting complaints and then asked for a no kidding policy on what topics are actually allowed since his cause of concern is more tunnel visioned on firearms than simply being professional around customers.

 

[MarineOne]

I would talk with these two individuals, politely of course, and tell them that you completely understand their feelings on the matter and why they would be upset. Then ask them to post up a "code of conduct" so that you can clearly understand what they require and make sure you won't violate any policies they have. I would also ask for these policies be posted and put in writing to ensure there won't be any further misunderstandings.

At the same time I would look for employment elsewhere. They know you're pro-2A and eventually you're going to get fired because of it, indirectly of course, so it's best to leave on your terms and do so professionally.

This covers your six, and for those people that you frequently speak with on pro-2A issues, you can politely refer them to the posted "code of conduct" and their "policies" as to why you can't discuss firearms or firearms related topics, and you would be more than happy to speak with them outside of the workplace.

This does two things:

1. You're following the rules and policies they've posted and you can't be terminated on these grounds any longer, so they will need to find another reason(s), and

2. It makes the owners look bad to their pro-2A customers and shows all customers that you personal time outside of work is being infringed upon.

Sometimes people need to understand that just because you live in Illinois doesn't mean everyone is anti-RKBA.




Kris