Iron Sight
Member
How many own a Progressive Press but find it better to Hand Prime cases as a separate operation on the side?
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Have a Progressive Press but Hand Prime
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loadedround
Member
My question can be asked in one word. Why? 
I do not understand why one would go through the problem of hand priming when one has a progressive press. I uise a Dillon 550 to load all my pistol calibers and visually inspect each case before sizing, the powder drop and the final cartridge. I manage to turn out ca 250 per hour of excellent ammo. I might make an exception if I were shooting benchrest rifle ammo since I would load it on a single stage press.
floydster
Member
Why? because it's nothing but a hassle priming on a progressive, at least it is on my LNL.
I have tried all the "fixes".
I have tried all the "fixes".
snuffy
Member
Sure, you can hand prime on a progressive, you can also load wearing handcuffs. That's if you want additional handicaps.
Better, how? If the primer is in the pocket, seated properly, what's better mean?
The priming system of the LNL IS it's weak point. I could point to a bunch of threads here and on TFL about the LNL priming woes.
I have NO problems priming on my dillon 650. It would be a major hassle to prime off-press, because of how it's built.
As said, IF you're making match rifle shells for a MATCH rifle, then the priming step could be done more precisely with a hand primer.
Better, how? If the primer is in the pocket, seated properly, what's better mean?
The priming system of the LNL IS it's weak point. I could point to a bunch of threads here and on TFL about the LNL priming woes.
I have NO problems priming on my dillon 650. It would be a major hassle to prime off-press, because of how it's built.
As said, IF you're making match rifle shells for a MATCH rifle, then the priming step could be done more precisely with a hand primer.
OP
OP
Iron Sight
Member
LiveLife
Member
For plinking/general range loads, I prime on the progressive press.
Hand priming allows you to better detect loose primer pockets to mark them or sort them out from your shooting stock of cases.
For match practice/match loads, I always hand prime (and clean primer pockets as needed) because if you have dirty primer pockets, progressive press won't allow you to visualize the primer pockets or to clean them unless you take the case out of the shell plate.
Hand priming allows you to better detect loose primer pockets to mark them or sort them out from your shooting stock of cases.
For match practice/match loads, I always hand prime (and clean primer pockets as needed) because if you have dirty primer pockets, progressive press won't allow you to visualize the primer pockets or to clean them unless you take the case out of the shell plate.
Rollis R. Karvellis
Member
I have used my 650 to prime cases that had been preped a good time earlyer. About 2000 case's in about 2 hours. The main reason I, bought the 650 was I, was afraid that a 550 would have the same lossey priming system that my Honady Projector had. The Projector is the predasesor to the LnL. Mine is set up for 41mag and I, do have to prime with my Lee hand primer or a primer die.
snuffy
Member
BDS, from your other thread alluded to above;
And to your last post. I don't bother with cleaning primer pockets. At least not for any handgun rounds. Long range match rifle loads, or hunting ammo, then they get cleaned.
I don't buy into the claim that primer residue "builds up" at the bottom of the pocket. Some day, I'm going to do a little test. I'll take my mobile loading kit to the range, shoot the same case multiple times WITHOUT cleaning the primer pocket. Just re-prime, charge the case, and seat a bullet. While shooting over my pact chrono, at a the same target.
And to your last post. I don't bother with cleaning primer pockets. At least not for any handgun rounds. Long range match rifle loads, or hunting ammo, then they get cleaned.
I don't buy into the claim that primer residue "builds up" at the bottom of the pocket. Some day, I'm going to do a little test. I'll take my mobile loading kit to the range, shoot the same case multiple times WITHOUT cleaning the primer pocket. Just re-prime, charge the case, and seat a bullet. While shooting over my pact chrono, at a the same target.
I hand prime before loading on my LNL. I have never tried to prime on my LNL. I do not expect anyone who thinks this is silly and a waste of time to change.
It doesn't seem to, at least not enough to matter. I never clean pistol primer pockets and I have never had a primer fail to fire. The "buildup" seems to remain constant. Some falls out on its own every time you deprime etc.
I bet you run out of powder, primers, and/or bullets before it makes a difference, if it ever does.
dmazur
Member
I believe that folks who hand prime as a "side operation" are either
1) Having trouble with the priming mechanism OR
2) Don't like the lack of "feel" and skipping obsessive prep steps
as has been covered in the previous posts.
If you have a reliable progressive press repriming system, I would use it and not worry about the differences between it and hand priming. Inspect the finished rounds, learn how repriming "feels" on it, keep the mechanism clean and working, etc. if you want to be compulsive.
If you have a progressive press and the priming mechanism doesn't work, it might be time to consider a different press.
1) Having trouble with the priming mechanism OR
2) Don't like the lack of "feel" and skipping obsessive prep steps
as has been covered in the previous posts.
If you have a reliable progressive press repriming system, I would use it and not worry about the differences between it and hand priming. Inspect the finished rounds, learn how repriming "feels" on it, keep the mechanism clean and working, etc. if you want to be compulsive.
If you have a progressive press and the priming mechanism doesn't work, it might be time to consider a different press.
fourdollarbill
Member
I use the progressive as a case prep. Decap, size, prime, flare.
Then I use a redding b3 to charge and a single to seat and crimp.
Then I use a redding b3 to charge and a single to seat and crimp.
BigJakeJ1s
Member
I have two friends that each own 550b's and both of them hand prime separately. They also deprime prior to tumbling, so it is not a big deal for them to hand prime prior to resizing and loading on the 550, and they avoid the hassle/problems of loading primers into tubes, adjusting/switching primer sizes, and priming on the press (keeping things clean, etc.) Both of them are engineers and very mechanically adept.
From an honest appraisal of issues on progressive presses, no brand has it down pat. They each have their own sets of issues. Hornady is less tolerant of spilled powder fouling up the shuttle than Dillon. Dillon has more problems with adjustments when changing sizes, and with spent primer debris, particularly on the 550. The 650 is much harder to change primer sizes unless you want to pay $$ for an extra whole priming assembly, and is much more prone to primer detonations propagating to the tube magazine. Each are solvable, but some choose to avoid the problems altogether.
Andy
From an honest appraisal of issues on progressive presses, no brand has it down pat. They each have their own sets of issues. Hornady is less tolerant of spilled powder fouling up the shuttle than Dillon. Dillon has more problems with adjustments when changing sizes, and with spent primer debris, particularly on the 550. The 650 is much harder to change primer sizes unless you want to pay $$ for an extra whole priming assembly, and is much more prone to primer detonations propagating to the tube magazine. Each are solvable, but some choose to avoid the problems altogether.
Andy
Hornady L'n'L priming for all pistol rounds, hand prime for rifle because I am obsessive ... BTW, 32k rounds and still nary a problem on the Hornady priming system. Wore out 1 LP slide and they replaced it without an issue.
Of course, that may be an unfair comparison to the above comments as I actually clean it now and then.
/Bryan
Of course, that may be an unfair comparison to the above comments as I actually clean it now and then.
/Bryan
LiveLife
Member
snuffy, that's already been done. When you fire the primer, the primer residue is soft and powdery inside the primer pocket. As time passes, the primer residue hardens. So, you can fire 100 times at the range using the same case and the primer pocket would be easy to clean as the primer residue would simply "fall" out when you remove the primer cup.
Like I posted earlier, primer residue will not prevent a new primer from igniting the powder in the case. Since I inspect primer pockets often and clean them on occasion, what I have observed is that most of the times primer residue will come out when the primer cup is deprimed. On rare occasions, I have run into really fouled up primer pockets where there was significant amount of "crud" that I removed from the primer pockets. I am quite certain these cases would have fired, but the primer cups probably would have been hard to seat or required extra effort.
I hand prime match loads or practice loads because all of my rounds must go bang or I suffer time penalties if I have to chamber another round. I simply cannot afford improperly seated primers. On the other hand, plinking/range loads do not require hand priming because you can always rechamber the round or simply toss the round that does not go bang.
So yes, I agree with you. I just take the extra step of hand priming for match/practice loads.
I have one question though. How are you identifying loose primer pocket cases?
I have found that it is very easy to "feel" loose primer pockets when hand priming, less so with press mounted primer attachment. They are marked with "X" on the bottom of case with a marker and tossed after shooting and when I sort cases for tumbling.
Gryffydd
Member
When I had a Lee Loadmaster I always hand primed. Now that I have a LnL I prime on the press. I had to do a bit of polishing and deburring to get the small primer system to work, but it's been flawless since and the large primer system has always worked flawlessly.
Rifle loads I still prime by hand.
I really need to get a primer tube filler though. The whole pickup process is a real pain. That's one of the nicest things about hand priming with my RCBS APS priming tool and the APS strip loader.
Rifle loads I still prime by hand.
I really need to get a primer tube filler though. The whole pickup process is a real pain. That's one of the nicest things about hand priming with my RCBS APS priming tool and the APS strip loader.
oneounceload
member
And I also doubt you're loading on a progressive - you're using a single stage and weighing every powder drop, etc.......
I have had many different brands - the priming step is always the weak link on any progressive press
LiveLife
Member
For the most part, primer firing in the pocket don't develop "cruddy" build up. What might be happening to some cases is that during case processing, either dry media with polish or wet process without primer being removed, foreign matter/liquid may get into the flash hole and building up inside the primer pocket.
I think this is what I am seeing on rare occasion when I see a really fouled up primer pockets. It is hard crud that is not like the usual light powdery primer fouling.
Either way, if there IS significant fouling leftover after depriming, progressive press won't allow you to visualize or clean the primer pocket and you will seat another primer into the primer pocket with the fouling. Hand priming will allow you the opportunity to do a quick check of the primer pocket and clean IF necessary and readily detect loose primer pockets to scrap the case.
I think this is what I am seeing on rare occasion when I see a really fouled up primer pockets. It is hard crud that is not like the usual light powdery primer fouling.
Either way, if there IS significant fouling leftover after depriming, progressive press won't allow you to visualize or clean the primer pocket and you will seat another primer into the primer pocket with the fouling. Hand priming will allow you the opportunity to do a quick check of the primer pocket and clean IF necessary and readily detect loose primer pockets to scrap the case.
I am still going to hand prime, just cause I like it that way. I think it is more consistent, and it is much easier to tell a loose primer pocket, plus it is one more operation I don't have to pay attention to when actually loading the cases. I like doing it this way, and don't intend to change, no matter how much people make fun of folks like us for doing it.
Signed......stuck in his ways.
Signed......stuck in his ways.
LiveLife
Member
I find that most loose primer pockets are in 9mm cases. Seldom for 40S&W and rarely for 45ACP (most of my range brass is once fired and I keep the reloading lots separated).
My match caliber is 40S&W and it gets hand primed. I prime 45 ACP on the progressive press and perform all the reloading steps on the progressive press. If I were to shoot 45 ACP for match shooting again, I would hand prime the cases.
I deprime/size 9mm on the single stage because it is easier to size on the single stage and Pro 1000 has issues with small pistol primer attachment (for me, it's good 95% of the times). Do I prime 9mm on the progressive? Yes, some times.
I am currently working on two mods for Pro 1000 to have adjustable primer depth and improved small pistol primer feed attachment. I will post on the Pro 1000 thread when I have the prototypes working.
Regardless, I deprime/resize and hand prime while I watch TV, so it is a leisurely activity I don't mind doing.
Reloading tools are simply tools. Many automated tools (bullet feeders, case feeders, progressive press, turret press, powder measures, etc.) were developed to speed up the reloading process, sometimes at the expense of accuracy and consistency.
When extreme accuracy and consistency is called for, we fall back to using single stage press and hand weighing powder charges. Hand priming is one of such tools that we can fall back on for more accuracy and consistency. You will often find hi-power bench rest shooters performing reloading steps using the most basic/fundamental tools instead of automated tools because they must have accuracy and consistency.
Can we use progressive press for case prep (deprime, size, flare, bullet seat, case crimp) and hand measure powder charges? Yes
Can we use progressive press with hand primed cases? Yes
Ultimately, as Walkalong posted, it's individual reloading preference. Some of us tumble only before we deprime/size. Some tumble after deprime to clean the primer pocket then size. Some tumble before deprime/size and tumble after then tumble after seating the bullet. Some don't tumble at all.
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snuffy
Member
Who said I was going to clean the primer pockets? The very reason to do this test is to prove YOU DON'T HAVE TO CLEAN PRIMER POCKETS!
The only reason you may have loose primers is IF you're running max loads. I don't. Mid level loads don't loosen primer pockets. Besides, the dillon 650 actually has quite a bit of feel in it's primer seating.
Okay, so admit it, you're OCD. You feel you MUST clean primer pockets. I don't let the little things like that bother me.
I'm constantly amused by people that say how hard it is to load primer tubes, or changing primer sizes on a 650. For crying out loud, it takes all of 5 minutes to change the disk on a 650 primer feed. True, you have to have the shell plate removed to do it, but you have to remove it to replace it with another one anyway!
I had a vibra-prime, I gave it away to some one on the forums. I got REAL tired of upside down primers while using it. I have a bunch of extra tubes, I load however many primers I'm planning on running in a session into the tubes. It takes only 2-3 minutes to load 100 primer into a tube. Heck, I know we all are used to instant results because of computers and other magic electronic stuff, but a couple minutes isn't much compared to a lifetime!
Tallinar
Member
The only operations I use the progressive press for are:
1. Resize/decap/bell
2. Seat/crimp
So in other words, I never use more than 2 dies in the progressive press at a time.
I use an RCBS hand priming tool for priming. The reason I do is so that I can get a manual feel for loose primer pockets or high primers as I am priming, as opposed to waiting to find out until the case has already been charged and the bullet seated. It is a safety thing.
The RCBS priming tool is about the best thing since sliced bread, anyway.
1. Resize/decap/bell
2. Seat/crimp
So in other words, I never use more than 2 dies in the progressive press at a time.
I use an RCBS hand priming tool for priming. The reason I do is so that I can get a manual feel for loose primer pockets or high primers as I am priming, as opposed to waiting to find out until the case has already been charged and the bullet seated. It is a safety thing.
The RCBS priming tool is about the best thing since sliced bread, anyway.
snuffy
Member
BDS, you use way too many generalities when posting. Who's WE? It ain't me. I load match .223 on my 650, using an old Hornady measure on their case activated die. AND priming with the dillon priming system WITHOUT cleaning primer pockets. Case lube is then tumbled off after loading . And I'm not concerned about case lube getting in a primer pocket, it won't hurt a thing.
As for the bench rest gang, that's an entirely different ballgame. AND they don't weigh charges, they load by volume. See what you get when you generalize?
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WOW! What a hilarios notion.
To prime off the press to me is preposterous. Especially those of you with LNL machines (you too Mr. Walkalong, with all do respect Sir) that are still priming off press must have found the fountain of youth, and in doing so, now have an unlimited amount of time. Why in heavens name would you abandon what I find to be an almost Griswold proof priming system. I started with Lee presses and almost said "maybe I should prime off the press" and then I extracted my head from that dark place, sent all the Lee stuff back and ordered a LNL. Thousands of rounds later I have not had a single tipped primer or issue with that Russian crap I pick up at the range. For those of you having priming issues with your LNL (and I'm not saying that's what the OP was getting at) you need to make a call to Hornady! Period!
For those of you without a Wife, Kids, Grandchildren, church, yardwork or other outlet that could use an hour or two of your time, that are still priming off press... carry on.
To prime off the press to me is preposterous. Especially those of you with LNL machines (you too Mr. Walkalong, with all do respect Sir) that are still priming off press must have found the fountain of youth, and in doing so, now have an unlimited amount of time. Why in heavens name would you abandon what I find to be an almost Griswold proof priming system. I started with Lee presses and almost said "maybe I should prime off the press" and then I extracted my head from that dark place, sent all the Lee stuff back and ordered a LNL. Thousands of rounds later I have not had a single tipped primer or issue with that Russian crap I pick up at the range. For those of you having priming issues with your LNL (and I'm not saying that's what the OP was getting at) you need to make a call to Hornady! Period!
For those of you without a Wife, Kids, Grandchildren, church, yardwork or other outlet that could use an hour or two of your time, that are still priming off press... carry on.
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